PT Dooku's motivation to join Darth Sidius?

One thing i found hard to grasp is why Count Dooku joined Darth Sidius?

This is what wookipedia says: Dooku admitted to having had thoughts about hunting down the second Sith Lord to exact revenge. To Palpatine's surprise however, Dooku revealed that his line of thought had quickly changed, and that he now sought a potential alliance with the Sith, as he believed that they shared his aim to reforge the galaxy

He wanted to hunt down the second sith in order to get revange for the death of his former padawan Qui-Gon Jinn. And he left the Jedi Order right after Qui-Gon had died so Qui-Gon's death must have been a big part of the reason he left from the beginning.

So he left the order cause he felt the Jedi order had failed Qui-Gon and sought revenge, but instead he joined the Sith? I don't understand his motivations for joining Darth Sidius when he obviously knew that Sidius was the cause of the death of Qui-Gon? Why so suddenly change from sorrow over his former padawan to joining the one that killed him?

 

The way I figure it: Dooku thought the corruption in the Senate and the Republic was having a profoundly negative impact on both the Jedi Order and the galaxy as a whole. After the death of Qui-Gon, he left the Jedi and indeed sought out Sidious but rather than attempt to kill him, he saw a grand opportunity to change the galaxy as he saw fit by becoming Sidious' apprentice. The desire for revenge was overshadowed by his desire to reshape the galaxy. As per the Rule of Two, I'm sure Dooku would've eventually attempted to kill his master. (Whether or not, he could actually take Palpatine is another story altogether). Obviously, as Sidious' apprentice, he was half the mastermind behind the Clone Wars and was able to set his vision in motion. But like so many dark siders have realized far too late, treachery is the way of the Sith.

 

Great answer! But i still find it odd that he left the Jedi much because Qui-Gon Jinn died and still joined his killer.
If your motivation to leave the Jedi Order is from the death of your former padawan i just find it hard to comprehen that you would join the same people who likely pushed you over the edge to leave from the first place.

 

Dooku left the Order because of the Order's (and Republic's) incompetence at dealing with the Naboo situation correctly. His leaving had nothing to do with the Sith.

 

He joined with Sidious once he realized that Darth Tyranus sounds better than Count Dooku.

 

I see it potentially as being more as means to an end. Perhaps he did discover that Sidious was behind Qui-Gon's death, but knowing how the Sith tended to operate, perhaps he also planned one eventually putting down Sidious. Through Sidious, he could gain the means to achieve the ends that he desired, regardless of whether it initially conflicted with his reasons for leaving.

That's how I look at it.

 

I absolutely applaud Dooku for leaving the Jedi. They were corrupt. I've always seen it that he was a Sith simply because he departed the Jedi and retained his Force-Sensitivity. In the films you oppose the Jedi = Sith with those abilities. Which I find entirely very lame. Dooku wasn't Sith-like in manner at all.

 

If Sidious hadn't been around to encourage Dooku to join him, I have no doubt that Dooku would have been a non-Jedi, non-Sith Force user like you describe.

 

Nope - in AOTC the Jedi refer to Dooku as "one of the Lost Twenty" and say things like "he is a political idealist, not a murderer" - until his Sithliness is revealed.

 

And why was Mace so sure at the beginning of AOTC that Dooku was so incapable of any sort of wrongdoing? Is this simply another piece of the Jedi arrogance that illustrates how blinded they had become by their own perceived benevolence? A pretty shocking revelation when in the movie's final moments we witness a fair percentage of the remaining Jedi then being annihilated by Dooku and his droid forces.

 

I think Dooku joined the Sith because he felt that he might move something in the galaxy to become good without being hindered by a corrupt senate and hesitating Yedi. But isn't actually the corruption for a big part the work of Sidious/Palpatine? For he is creating the problems which encouraged/pressed people to join him. Maybe Dooku thought after getting ride off the corruption and wars he will terminate the evil-doer sidious as well as it is the tradition of the sith. But actually the black "widower" Sidious was faster than his two first apparentices. Actually Dooku was to good to become a true Sith.He was just to well-mannered, trustful and honorable in many ways, which is a dis-advantage in dealing with master-villains like Sidious,who is a real psychopath in my eyes. And Dooku couldn't just imagine that Sidious just used people like chess-figures even when they were of a high rank like Dooku. That Dooku preferred long-lasting stable relationships in order to build up a solid order one can see in his relationship to General Grievous, who was a kind of almost friend/partner for him.

 

In reference to the OP question...

Power. Unlimited power.

 

If you read Labyrinth of Evil, it explains his motivations - basically Palpatine swayed him with the Sith philosophy, that the only way to change the galaxy would be with force. I think the Darth Plagueis novel explains too. He wasn't even mad at Palpatine although Darth Maul killed Qui-gon.

Dooku wanted to marry Viscountess Elodore Vane in the Clone Wars comic books, and you can tell he was in love :B
Although the Revenge of the Sith novel and Labyrinth of Evil makes it clear he dislikes Grievous and is going to use him as a scapegoat for the Clone Wars and spend the rest of his life under comfortable house arrest after saying the Separatist Council "made him do it". But my personal canon is a little different because should the Count at least appreciate Geonosian design and not be completely repulsed by Grievous?

 

Yeah that sounds right to me. That he intended to eventually kill Sidious after they had reshaped the republic and maybe the Jedi order. Dooku didn't seemed like a person who wanted to destroy the Jedi completely like a true Sith would.

 

This is a question that although has been touched on through the books/comics etc, has only given us that the thirst for power led Dooku to "move on' from his padawan's death and join the SIth. Do we all buy this? He could have dispised Qui Gon and tried lying to Obi Wan, but majority would say no. He could just have figured this is the way to fix the Republic, even if he sells his soul to the darkside. I still have to comment at one of my big obsessions with Star Wars at the moment is his character, which was always cool, but nothing special. After doing my TPM "Rewrite", adding him in as a jedi who left the order, introduced in TPM, not using a red lightsaber, but a jedi green/blue, and having him NOT be a Sith, would really take us by suprise and put his status as one of the all time great Jedi's. He would have been one of the few who saw the evil corrupted Republic, tried to start new (the right way, not with the Sith) and could of had us guessing all the way until the end as to who is really the good guys here.

 

I still have no idea why Dooku joined the master of the guy who killed his apprentice.

 

Because his grief and anger threw him into the Dark Side and the Dark Side corrupts. Count Dooku probably had his own Anakineque -came into the room to kill Palpatine, ended up kneeling before him- moment.

 

Yup:

Though they hadn't enjoyed the smoothest of teacher-student relationships, he and Yoda had spoken openly of the portents. But Yoda was living proof of the conservatism that came with extended life. Dooku's true confidant had been Master Sifo-Dyas, who, while also disturbed by what was occurring, was too weak to take action.
The Battle of Naboo had revealed that the Sith were back in the open, and that a Sith Lord was at work somewhere.
The Sith Lord: the one born with the power needed to take the final step.
Dooku had given thought to seeking him out, perhaps killing him. But even what little faith he placed in prophesy was enough to raise doubt that the death of a Sith could halt the advance of the dark side.
Another would come, and another.
As it happened, there had been no need to hunt for Sidious, for it was Sidious who had approached him. Sidious's boldness surprised him at first, but it hadn't taken long for Dooku to become fascinated by the Sith. Instead of a lightsaber duel to the death, there had been much discussion, and a gradual understanding that their separate visions for how the galaxy might be rescued from depravity.
But partnership with a Sith didn't make one a Sith.
As the Jedi arts had to be taught, so, too, did the power of the dark side. And so began his long apprenticeship. The Jedi warned that anger was the quickest path to the dark side, but anger was nothing more than raw emotion. To know the dark side one had to be willing to rise above all morality, to throw love and compassion aside, and to do whatever was necessary to bring about the vision of a world brought under control—even if that meant taking lives.
Dooku was an eager student, and yet Sidious had continued to hold him at arm's length. Perhaps he had been working with other potential replacements for his earlier apprentice, the savage Darth Maul, who, in fact, had been nothing more than a minion, like Asajj Ventress and General Grievous. Sidious had recognized in Dooku the makings of a true accomplice—an equal from the other camp, already trained in the Jedi arts, a master duelist, a political visionary. But he needed to gauge the depth of Dooku's commitment.
One of your former confidants at the Jedi Temple has perceived the coming change, Sidious had told him. This one has contacted a group of cloners, regarding the creation of an army for the Republic. The order for the army can stand, for we will be able to make use of that army someday. But Master Sifo-Dyas cannot stand, for the Jedi cannot learn about the army until we are prepared to have them learn of it.
And so with the murder of Sifo-Dyas, Dooku had embraced the dark side fully, and Sidious had conferred on him the title Darth Tyranus. His final act before leaving the Jedi Order was to erase all mentions of Kamino from the Jedi archives. Then, as Tyranus, he had found Fett on Bogg 4; had instructed the Mandalorian to deliver himself to Kamino; and had arranged for payments to be made to the cloners through circuitous routes ...
Ten years passed.
Under its new Supreme Chancellor, the Republic recovered somewhat, then grew more corrupt and beset with problems than before. As best they could, Sidious and Tyranus helped things along.

 

Qui-Gon's death was the final straw, but he had wanted to leave the Jedi Order for some time before that, for the reasons stated in this thread, dissatisfaction with the Republic and the Senate, and with the way the Jedi were dealing with it. He joins Sidious so he can "fix" the galaxy, so he can do the things he thinks the Jedi should be doing.

I like to think it was Palpatine who came to Dooku, and told Dooku everything Dooku wanted to hear, all the changes Palpatine wanted to make, the way he wanted to do it. Dooku becomes quite fond of Palpatine, maybe even sees him as a sort of replacement for Qui-Gon. Then, Palpatine reveals himself as Sidious, as someone who actually has the power needed to make those changes, and Dooku becomes the apprentice. Once he has the strong Sidious as a confidant, Sifo-Dyas becomes redundant and his weakness made him a liability.

Yeah, Sidious was involved with Qui-Gon's death, but Dooku likes Palpatine, likes what he has to say. Yes, the revelation that Sidious is a Sith causes conflict, but it also means Palpatine has the power to allow Dooku to achieve his ambition and that wins out.

 

Hmm. Thats interesting. I always assumed Dooku simply had his own hidden agenda, and wanted more power himself. I thought he joined Sidious to someday kill him and take his place once he learned everything he needed, and rule the galaxy himself. His dialogue with Obi Wan reinforced that idea

 

It's so wonderful that Lucas explained why an old Jedi Master, of all people, would become an apprentice to an old Sith Master, right?

Going by the films alone, what do they tell you? A good man has somehow become evil and helped plot a galaxy against each other. But how does that happen to someone who should have been wise and powerful enough to resist this kind of corruption? Either he was fooled into thinking that there was something in it for him when the Republic fell (which the movie never tells us and we have to assume what it is), or Darth Sidious' power over the Dark Side allows him to completely ensnare and influence anyone over to his side and there's nothing that the victim can do about it (which, again, is not explained in the films).

 

Dooku should have been in TPM.

 

Which isn't too late. They could throw him in during the council scene (superimpose him over Yaddle. ) and Dooku could chime in about sending in more Jedi to help Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, which then Yoda could cut him off about the whole Senate would have to agree with that decision.

 

Or when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were talking during Anakin's testing.