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PT Dooku's motivation to join Darth Sidius?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by TommyDawnbounder, May 28, 2014.

  1. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Frankly what with the EU-reset button being hit it's all up in the air as to his exact logic and motives for turning. I am not as big a fan of Stover's ROTS novelisation as some, his style is just too florid for my personal tastes but his (mis)treatment of Dooku also sets my teeth on edge. As I've said more than once, Stover-Dooku with his 'assets vs threats' mentality is almost a textbook sociopath, even before the human-supremacist, anti-alien/droid bit that adds absolutely nothing to the character, only for him to die within a chapter or two anyway!
     
  2. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Dooku is still supposed to be a reflection of Anakin. Just how far that goes is up to question, but Dooku probably aligned with Palpatine for what he felt were righteous reasons as far as selling your soul to the devil could get you. And like Anakin he probably had a chance to redeem himself, but never took it before his death.
     
  3. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    It's not my opinion, it's exactly what happens in the films. It is "my opinion" that Coruscant is the galactic capital?
     
  4. enigmaticjedi

    enigmaticjedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2011

    From my point of view, he doesn't seem as bad.

    Unlike other Sith, he never has the yellow eyes that signify dark side hatred. In AOTC, he gives the Jedi in the arena a chance to surrender instead of killing them. After Mace refused the offer, it seems like he has some regret about making the decision to kill them. When fighting Kenobi, he tells him to back down before they start fighting.

    Overall, he is immoral, because he was willing to kill innocent lives in a war for political reform and Sith power. However, he doesn't seem as bad as the other Sith.
     
  5. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011

    It is your opinion, sir. We do not have to agree.

    It's also your opinion that Coruscant is the galactic capital; one I do not share.
     
  6. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Ignorance is truly bliss.
     
  7. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    He never reaches "cackling super-villain" territory. His most prominent flaw when he was a Jedi seemed to be his arrogance, and he became a sociopath after decades of delving into the dark side under the tutelage of Sidious. Dark Rendezvous and ROTS novelization seem to put it best.

    Nonetheless I am surprised by how many people consider Dooku "not truly evil" because he acts like a gentleman and doesn't have glowing yellow eyes..
     
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  8. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    No he doesn't, but from what we've seen of the Dark Side and the Sith, generally speaking sooner or later they do end up having '80s Cartoon Villain' moments, Palpatine presented himself as a suave and diplomatic political operator for decades but eventually dived into 'UNLIMITED POOOOOOWWWWAAAAHHHH' hamtastics, and cut loose against Luke on the Death Star as well. Dooku probably would have ended up having a few similar moments now and then, even if he didn't go full on mustache-twirling Darth Snidely Whiplash.

    I agree that people often make the mistake of assuming just because he was well spoken and aristocratic he was somehow 'less' evil though. I think in part it is due to his own arrogance blinding him as to just how far he's fallen. He started out wanting the people who rule to rule properly, and ended up wanting to be the person doing the ruling and never consciously noticed the transition.
     
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  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012

    "My powers have doubled since we last met!"
    "Gooooood! Twice the power ... double the fall!"
     
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  10. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    Or (in the novel but I can't honestly recall the film precisely) his grand entrance to the duel on Grievous's ship involves ignoring the stairs right there and floating over the banister... because he can. Say what you will, the Sith may be evil but they have style.
     
  11. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    In the film he does a front flip over the banister. I don't think the effects really hold up but in theory it's a bad ass entrance for sure.
     
  12. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I don't see why. A person's manner says a lot about him. Dooku isn't the monster most fans paint him.
     
  13. SpaceLord2014

    SpaceLord2014 Jedi Knight

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    Dec 31, 2014
    I would say that the actions of the person tells the story of who he is and he is a monster, considering that he caused a galaxy wide war that probably killed billions.
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    He wasn't the only contributor - Palpatine and the "Corporate leaders" contributed as well - but it would be safe to say, that people like Nute Gunray are, as Qui-Gon said, cowardly, and would not have gone to war had Dooku not been egging them on and manipulating them.

    And while Dooku was doing so on Palpatine's orders - that doesn't exonerate him.
     
  15. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    A person's manner tells you how they perceive themselves. A person's actions tell you how they perceive others. Dooku thought of himself as superior, aristocratic, polite. His actions were of a man who willingly and knowingly began a war with a cost of many hundreds of millions of lives, and was more than happy to kill Jedi by his own hand should the need arise. You can shave a lion's mane, that won't make it a house cat. He's evil by the end, regardless of his beginnings.
     
  16. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Kim Jong-Un carries himself in a very elegant manner. What do you think of him starving his people and running concentration camps?
     
  17. Lord Crevil

    Lord Crevil Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Feb 21, 2015
    "He's a political idealist, not a murderer" - Ki Adi Mundi
    Meaning Dooku had enough of the shady politics wafting out of the senate and the Jedi Order not willing to do anything about it. Basically Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedis at the time and a wise counselor, he realized just as all masters do that his abilities was being capped and since he had enough of the republic this left him to leave the Jedi Counsel. Eventually because Palpatine is the fly on the wall with the Jedi Council, it was very easy for Palpatine to persuade Dooku to take him under his wing.
     
  18. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Power. Unlimited power.
     
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  19. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    I really don't know if you were being a little facetious there or not... but it really does boil down to that I think and still fits him starting as an idealist (unless of course you go with the 'evil all along' Dooku, which I care little for.) He left the Order because it couldn't/wouldn't change and the Senate remained in charge and totally corrupt; Sidious came along and offered him the power to change that (and he'd already at least contemplated the possible use of the Dark Side to enforce change if his investigation of Sith holocrons remains canon, I am not sure if it does.) Dooku even as a Jedi seems to be a pretty confident/arrogant dude, enough so that his thinking he can use the Dark Side and not fall to it would be in character. Of course it doesn't work that way and he like everyone who gets sucked into the Dark Side ends up going down the rabbit hole into evil but he started off genuinely thinking he could do good I think. In the Stoveralisation he seemed to think he would surrender to Anakin on Grievous' ship, renounce the Dark Side and go the Force equivalent of cold turkey and stop using it... again, this probably wouldn't happen in reality but the Dark blinds its users as much as its enemies save those who embrace it fully like Sidious.
     
  20. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    He never intended to renounce the dark side. The idea was that once they ruled the galaxy the Sith would abandon the Rule of Two and instead have he and Sidious rule as partners (that makes sense:rolleyes:) with Anakin as the general of the Sith army.
     
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  21. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    I misremembered then, or perhaps I am thinking of another take on the story. But in either case he intended to give the impression of giving up the Dark Side even temporarily which suggests that its seen as possible to do. And I still think he originally intended to use the Dark Side's power but not join the Sith heart and soul as he ended up doing.
     
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