Dooku's motivation....

Here's the question---what exactly was Dooku's motivation for turning Sith.

Was he REALLY wanting to save the republic by tearing it down and rebuilding it in a perfect form?


Or was he just another power-hungry Sith lord?



Im tending to think the prior--despite the warmongering and attempts at assassination, he probably had no more clue that the Jedi were to be exterminated than he did of the trap Palpy set for him.

Strilo edit: We have the Dooku Discussion Thread for this...

 

I think he was misguided. I believe that he truely did want to reform the Republic because he saw the democracy which he had once served and defended as a Jedi crumbling around him, and knew it couldnt be "fixed", that it would have to be torn down and built anew. I believe he was using the Sith as a means to an ends, and that his speech to Obi Wan was sincere. ROTS kinda tossed this tragic and complicated figure aside, and without much resolution, but i believe in the last days of the Republic, this man tried his best to do what he thought was truely the right thing, and probably felt bad that he had to go about in such a dastardly fashion to accomplish it.

 

I believe that he thought he would be so much more powerful as a Sith. And he also wanted to reform the Republic

 

hum...I think he started off the way zombie described...but then hunger for more power twisted his ideals and motivations, turning him into a real Sith, one who lies in order to defeat his enemies and acomplish personal, selfish goals.
Imo... to rebuild the republic along values he admired was too much a selfless goal, to be kept by a Sith

 

I think that both zombie and Nirnaeth are correct. In a sense, Dooku's character is a bit of a precursor to Vader, in the sense that his primary dramatic function is to set up the idea of a Jedi turning to the Dark Side. As established in the novels, Dooku is far more elitist (and, in Matthew Stover's ROTS novelization, even somewhat racist). But his psychological journey is very similar to Anakin's, in the sense that he probably started out with good motives and then succumbed to his lust for power.
He's certainly well-played by Christopher Lee, fresh off The Lord of the Rings and probably bringing just a little bit of Saruman with him to the role. I especially love the interrogation scene with Obi-Wan in AOTC, in which he comes across as very persuasive, making you wonder just how much of what he's saying is the truth and how much of it is just plain lies.
However, no one can really know for sure, and so Dooku ultimately remains an enigma. How much of what he did sprang from good intentions is difficult to sort out from how much sprang from his craving for power.

 

Dooku is something of an enigma. Such is the way of the Sith. Nevertheless, you'll be surprised at how much can be gleamed from even the smallest of details. Perhaps it's just my analytical mind run rampant but here's something I posted in another thread:

There is an elitist attitude and casual racism to Dooku's behaviour. According to his official backstory, Dooku is one of the richest men in the galaxy. Although not explicitly stated by either of the films in which he appears, this does seem to be visually implied by the ostentatious cape and chain that Dooku's large frame impressively bears. Additionally, when Dooku squares off with Anakin in both Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, he repeatedly mocks and taunts him. To Dooku, Anakin is nothing. It probably sickens and amuses him in equal measure that anyone would consider a lowly child slave to hold any kind of galactic worth - much less be the "Chosen One". Of course, if Dooku was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth within the safe confines of the Republic, why would he care for a brash upstart from some backwater planet? Additionally, if Dooku was born into riches, he may feel some cathartic release in joining the Sith movement; the Jedi are denied possessions and links to family, so to get back his prestige and wealth is surely, for someone who turned cold toward Jedi philosophy, an enormous boon. And WITH that restored prestige and wealth, Dooku may well feel that he, more than anyone else, is ably qualified and a logical choice to lead the New Order.

I particularly like the casting of Lee beyond his obvious affinity and prowess with villainous roles. At a height of 6'4" and a face that sits comfortably with a beard, Lee really sells the idea that his character was once Qui Gon's mentor. He really does look like a good guy gone bad! It's interesting when he tells Yoda in Attack of the Clones that, "this is just the beginning!". With that one line, it is clear that Dooku has hopelessly committed himself to a malevolent cause and is failing to see the bigger picture.

Now, I spoke above about elitism. But that's not the whole story. Lucas codes Dooku's real intentions for us in his name(s). Dervived from Japanese, the word "Dooku" literally translates as "poison" - and Dooku is indeed poisoning the Republic and democracy. His elitism almost certainly drives him to feel that he is above democracy and above the people. If Dooku actually felt he was truly acting for the good of the galaxy, then he probably wouldn't speak so smugly with shady organisations

 

Count Dooku kind of reminds me of Harold Lauder in Stephen Kings "The Stand"

"I was mislead."

 

Nice analysis, Cryogenic.

I think Dooku believed that the Sith would establish a benign dictatorship that would be better than the corrupt Republic. This kind of fits in with his condescending tone. He probably thought that the Sith running things would actually be for the greater good.

Chris Lee was absolutely perfect in this role.

 

I don't really buy Stover's 'racist sociopath from childhood' Dooku, just because it sets up the Council as even more idiotic than it usually is. You'd think they'd notice over his 70 years in the order. Yet they're still caught off-guard in AoTC. Dooku obviously doesn't have a Jedi record that screams 'dark side'. The Jedi compare him a lot to Qui-gon.

Remember, Dooku's the 'fallen Jedi' of the Sith apprentices as far as analogies to Vader go.

I think Dooku was at one point a true Jedi, and I think his weakness was more forbidden knowledge/philosophy as opposed to pure power. Dooku's not solitary, he doesn't show any real inclination to overthrow Sidious over the entire Clone Wars even though he's more or less in the best position for it of any Sith apprentice -ever-. Sidious trusts him with his own MASSIVE private army, long sojourns 'away from base'... And we never, ever, see Dooku betray that (except perhaps with his offer to Kenobi). That points to Dooku's motivations being ideals more than power, to me. In the end, he's just not Sith enough.

 

Dooku read/ or whatever you do with the Sith Holocron. He heard about Darth Sidious, so he left the Order and he searched out Sidious. And we know what happens from there.

Good Stuff

 

I wouldn't be too sure of that. While there isn't a great deal of evidence either way, I think Lucas invites us to consider the possibility that Dooku is planning to overthrow his master when he talks with Obi Wan on Geonosis. The tone and content of his remarks hint at the coercion of Obi Wan and joint mutiny (much like Vader enticing Padme and later, Luke) to help him achieve his aim. In Episode III, he is genuinely horrified when Sidious orders his execution - horrified that he's about to die, horrified that Anakin is the one to do it and possibly even horrified that Sidious did to him what he was planning to do to Sidious. Remember, it is in a Sith's nature to thirst for power and do whatever is necessary to obtain it.

 

"It's in a Sith's nature?" Sure, I'll give you that. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's in Dooku's. Sith are not monolithic any more than Jedi are, and Dooku's if anything the least typical of the bunch.

He's not raised from birth as a Sith like Maul or probably Palpatine, nor influenced and eventually converted as young as Anakin. However disillusioned by it he may have become, to say that spending seven-eighths of his life in the Jedi Order did not affect his thinking at all would be kind of...strange. People are usually fairly set in their thinking by the time he left the order. I imagine that even after 10 years of aggressive warping he still has certain Jedi instincts and points of view that are practically hardwired and annoy Palpatine to no end.

For one, it's really interesting that Dooku is far more consistent about offering a chance to surrender than even the Jedi.

As Palpatine mentions unfavorably in RoTS, Dooku is -old-. Palpatine hasn't been molding him most of his life - heck, Palpatine wasn't even alive during his most malleable years.

 

If Dooku was virtuous and retained some sense of Jedi nobility, he'd NEVER have authorised the assasination of Padme. That's a terrible thing - politically and morally. It'd be like someone trying to assasinate Marin Luther King. Oh, wait. I believe that Dooku felt vindicated in what he was doing, but at the end of the day, how different is he to Anakin (Anakin also felt vindicated)? Really? Power corrupts. As previously expounded on, the two names that Lucas gave the character have negative meanings in their original languages. Dooku's Sith alias and his real name imply malignancy! That's not to say that Dooku didn't still have some underlying goodness. Afterall, Anakin was eventually saved by remembering his good self; there's every chance that Dooku could have been, too. But if you fail to reserve the possibility that Dooku was seeking to overthrow Sidious, then you are repeating the mistake of the Jedi - that yes, Dooku was disillusioned, but no, he was also a former Jedi and couldn't possibly be a Sith...

 

I'm not saying he's not fallen to a very very nasty depth. He has very much so. I'm saying that his perspective on the Sith is very different than that of the other Sith, and more external. It's like ....if your grandmother suddenly turns into Darth Grandma, she'd act a good deal differently than Darth Maul. Tyranus is different from Maul who's different from Vader who's different from Sidious. And part of that individuality is their individual experiences. Dooku has spent damn near all his life as a Jedi. Vader remembers being a slave. Etc.

His life didn't start at the point where he turns to evil, even with the new Sith name. . It's the sum of everything up to that point modified by everything past that point.

It's like Darth Grandma still having the same cookie recipes, but now using them for evil.

 

Yes. And that's what makes Dooku such a compelling character.