drawing lines

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by IG_88a, Feb 26, 2003.

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  1. IG_88a Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 4
    Do the evil beings in the saga become more evil or less evil throughout the sage i.e Is Vader the most evil followed by Dooku then Maul, or is it the otherway around? and same with the good guys, do they do more or less good as the saga progresses?

    In my opinion the bad guys get somewhat badder, Maul was a tool (not an insult :D ) for Sidious to use, while Dooku was more involved in the plans, and then vader, well vader was treated better by palps and his deeds were pretty rotten (blowing up a planet etc )
    While the good guys, they may stay good, but their deeds are more personal than societal as the saga progresses, for example, Han in Ep4 comes back to Help Luke and the Rebelion, while in ROTJ Luke gives himself up to face vader and try and redeem him, for his own benefit. While in the PT Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were ambassadors to help out a planet and its peoples.

    What do you think?
  2. YT-1300_Pilot Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Here's my opinion.

    The most evil - The Emperor/Sideous/Whoever. He became more evil and posessed as time passed.

    Second place - Darth Maul. A pure bad a**.

    Third - Darth Vader. Luke revealed that there was still some good in him in the end.

    Last - Darth Tyrannus. He wanted Obi-Wan to join him and destroy Darth Sideous.

  3. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    YT-1300_Pilot you have ATOC in your sig instead of AOTC ;)

    I'm not sure who I rank second. Sidious is definately the evil man of the saga.

    Maul did try to run over Anakin in TPM. What kind of villian tries to kill a kid? Yet Vader is torturing people, not flinching as a planets gets blown up, fights his son and cuts off his hand. Vader has a higher kill count than Maul. Since I like Vader more than Maul I'm saying Vader :)

    Tyrannus dihasn't done much evil acts yet. All he did was try to execute some Jedi and start a galactic war. He didn't get his hands dirty except for dueling with Obi-Wan, Anakin and Yoda.
  4. IG_88a Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 4
    i think you have mistaken my meaning, not which order are they the most evil, but the actions of the bad guys and good guys, do they go more to the extreme as the saga progresses or do the actions become more diluted?
  5. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    Ahhh. Well, I will try again I hope I get it right :)

    TPM - Maul tries to run over a child. Sidious blockades a planet which forces armies to engage each other. A jedi Master is killed.

    AOTC - 2 attempted assisinations of a senator. Sidious causes a galactic war which will cost the lives of millions, perhaps billions since we are talking such a large scale. Dooku tries to kill around 200 odd Jedi that went to Geonosis, many Jedi fall. He also tries to kill Padme, again.

    ANH - A rebel ship is boarded and soldiers die as stormies invade, Vader strangles a soldier. The Lar's are killed by stormies. Jawas are massacred by stormies. Leia is tortured in trying to get her to reveal the location of the hidden rebel base. A planet is destroyed, one of the last Jedi is slain. Rebel pilots are killed as they attempt to stop the Death Star.

    ESB - Many rebels killed in the Battle of Hoth. C3PO gets blown up by stormies. Han is tortured for no reason. Han is frozen and taken away. Luke's hand is cut off.

    ROTJ - Many rebels die in the Battle of Endor in space and in ground battles. Rebel Starship destroyed by the Death star, Luke is electrocuted by the Emporer as is Anakin.

    So by that account, forgive if I forgot anything. Its appears that more evil acts are performed in ANH than the others. However as Trilogies go I would have to say with the inclusion of E3, the PT has more evil the OT.
  6. Benny_Blanco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2002
    star 4
    Don`t you kinda get the impression that Maul is a bit,well, unintelligent though? All blind hate, kind of without direction?

    I think that in order to qualify as "evil" you have to have been "good" at some point, and then willingly cross over. This would then count out Darth Maul.(as far as we`ve seen or know) - by this definition, this would make Vader the most evil of them all, as we know he was once a pure little boy, with goodness in his heart who was always willing to help others THEN he CHOSE to "cross over".
  7. Tobie_Wan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2002
    star 4
    Dooku?s evil lies in his treachery against the Jedi. His connection to the upper levels of the Jedi, allow him to plot and conspire against them. We can suspect at this point that he has also tampered with their archives and layered the groundwork needed to frame them for creating a war. His status as a former Jedi will cast even more suspicion their way when it is revealed who ordered the clone army. He also orders the obliteration of the Jedi in the battle at Geonosis and maims or nearly kills a few himself. Other of Dooku?s actions are complex means to ends. His assassination attempts against Padme are orchestrated to advance political necessities and yet seem detached. His duplicity in tempting Obi Wan is intended to confuse and provoke the Jedi, ultimately setting them up as scapegoats. Dooku?s cold and calculating use of his position to scandalize and betray the Jedi is truly evil.

    As the saga unfolds I think Dooku stands out as having some of the most despicable actions in his betrayal of the Jedi and the Force. Vader takes the more base evil impulses and carries them to the furthest remorseless extent. Vader was evil defined for me growing up but in the deepest parts of Dante?s hell lies the place reserved for traitors; Brutus, Judas and Dooku.
  8. IG_88a Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 4
    Maul may or may not of been good prior to his involvement with Darth Sidious, but he is evil, infact he is an Evil Tool for the purposes of Sidious plans. He may not be cold and calculating, but his actions are evil, he intends to kill Jedi, at the orders of his master.
    I found that Dooku, although serving Sidious, was not trying to sow the seeds of dissention amongst the Jedi, but was infact telling Obi Wan the truth about the Senate and Qui-Gon. Only out of respect for his former Padawan. I could easily be mistaken, but that was my impression of the interrorgation of Obi-Wan on Geonosis. However, his acts of attempted murder against the Jedis in the Arena and his assassination attempts of Padme to woo the trade federation over to the seperatists side cleary shows his evility.
    Vader, responsible for countless deaths, doesn't actually do much in the way of evility (obviously not including Ep3 (you don't see him starting a war or destroying a planet))
    Sidious/Palps As Evil as they come, he controlled the trade federation and started a hostile takeover of Naboo, he started a war on the republic, which will cause countless deaths, he authorised the building of the 'Ultimate Weapon' The Death Star, which he used to destroy atleast one planet (Aldaraan) and probably more. And he tried turning Father against son, Master against pupil, and planet vs planet.

    Its hard to say if Palps becomes more evil as the saga progresses or less evil or if he is equally evil in Ep1 as he is in Ep6.

    This is my interpretation.
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