Drug Smuggling.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Captain-Communist, Jul 19, 2002.

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  1. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    I think it is more likely that they would simply begin *gasp* selling their products legally?

    [face_laugh]

    You honestly think that drug dealers would start selling drugs legally?!?

    Let's pretend that all drugs are legalized.

    First off, since drugs are used on the human body, they now fall under the review of the FDA. The FDA must look over and approve of all drugs that are to be sold. This means that drug factories and growers/makers must be constantly reviewed by FDA agents. This will undoubtedly raise drug prices, as many of the drugs sold by small-time dealers are not "pure" or within standards that would be considered "safe".

    Second off, drug dealers would then have to purchase business licenses. This is so they can be tracked and taxed.

    Thirdly, because of the nature of most drugs, dealers would no longer be able to sell on the streets. They would have to set up bar-type establishments, which means building leases and permits. Also, because many drugs are injected, the government will require standard safety and health inspections, which often lead to charges imposed on the business proprieter to fix problems that come up.

    Fourth, due to the Democratic party's love of punishing businesses that sell products that are harmful to people (tobacco companies, anyone?), taxes on drugs would be astronomical.

    Drug dealers already know how to get around the system, do you honestly think that they are suddenly going to say, "Sweet, now I can be an honest, tax-paying, law-abiding citizen; and make approximately one-third selling legally what I could sell illegally and keep all the profit"?

    What a joke.
  2. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    "Fourth, due to the Democratic party's love of punishing businesses that sell products that are harmful to people (tobacco companies, anyone?), taxes on drugs would be astronomical"


    Lets not sit here and pretend just because you are a republican that democrats are the only politicians eating out of the hands of whoever finances their campaigns. Unfortunately that is how the system works. It is not a republican democrat thing.
  3. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Lets not sit here and pretend just because you are a republican that democrats are the only politicians eating out of the hands of whoever finances their campaigns. Unfortunately that is how the system works. It is not a republican democrat thing.

    Unfortunately true for many of our politicians; what does that have to do with Democrats being adamant about punishing tobacco companies?
  4. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    BKK said: Drugs cannot be anything but bad in the long run

    Did you know that living can be bad in the long run? Did you know one day you will get old and sick and die? Did you know McDonald's is bad in the long run? Did you know everyday you drive in a car, your chances of dying mangled over a steering wheel increase dramatically? Did you the sun is bad for you in the long run? Did you know taking Advil everyday is bad for you in the long run? Did you know breathing our polluted air is bad for you in the long run? Did you know cell phone's can cause cancer and guess what...will be bad for you in the long run?

    Finally...did you know guns could be bad for me in the long run, but me smoking a joint will never ever affect you in the long run? Ever.
  5. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Finally...did you know guns could be bad for me in the long run, but me smoking a joint will never ever affect you in the long run? Ever.

    Unless the money you used to buy the pot for the joint (illegally) goes toward a terrorism organization that uses it to buy parts that it needs for a bomb that is given to a homicide bomber who uses it at a restaurant that I am eating at.

    Then it hurts me in the long run.
  6. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    Drugs are generally highly addictive substances. If they were legalized, doesn't that mean that they would have to be prescribed by licensed medical practitioners?

    Or should only addictive drugs with positive effects be metered out so?
  7. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    In regards to illegal drugs helping support terrorism.

    Well now legalization would solve that problem wouldn't it?
  8. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Uhm money for pot does not go to terrorists. Most pot is grown in mexico by mexicans, not terrorists. And the pot that i smoke is home grown by americans(and very kind). Man those comercials during the super bowl really got to you, didnt they
  9. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Well now legalization would solve that problem wouldn't it?

    I think I pointed out in my above post why it wouldn't.

    Uhm money for pot does not go to terrorists. Most pot is grown in mexico by mexicans, not terrorists.

    Untrue. Statistically, most of the pot sold by dealers in the US comes from South America, where a large portion of the profits go towards terrorist organizations. I honestly cannot remember where I read this, but I will look for it so I can post a link to the study.

    And the pot that i smoke is home grown by americans(and very kind). Man those comercials during the super bowl really got to you, didnt they

    Serving overseas, we don't get to see Stateside commercials, so I have no idea what commercials you're talking about.

    Since you are breaking the law by growing pot, though, you are a criminal in the eyes of the law.
  10. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    I think I pointed out in my above post why it wouldn't

    Then I just have to ask you: how much money is going to terrorists from the legalized tobacco industry? Or the legalized alcohol industry? Or the legalized pharmaceutical industry?
  11. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    First off i dont grow pot i buy home grown pot because it is better. I am a criminal either way for smoking it or growing it or selling it. And you know what i am also a criminal for jaywalking and committing sodomy. there are a lot of laws that i simply find ridiculous and will not comply with. I dont just do things because they are legal or not. What are you trying to do by calling people criminals in here? Are you trying to incite them? Or are you just coming at us with that holier than thou crap?
  12. BKK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 3
    This thread has really gone to pot. HeHeHe...
  13. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    What are you trying to do by calling people criminals in here? Are you trying to incite them? Or are you just coming at us with that holier than thou crap?

    I'm simply stating a fact. If it bother or incites you, then maybe you need to reevaluate your way of living. The fact that you do things whether they are legal or not shows that you have some serious sociological issues that you should probably think about.

    I would like to retract my statement about S. America growing most of the US' marijuana. You were correct when you said it was Mexico. However, that does not preclude the fact that that money does go to terrorist organizations, it just means it's happening in Mexico.

    EDIT: And I don't mean all of the money. Most of it, I'm sure, goes to local crime rings. There is a fraction, though, that comes from and goes to terrorist groups.
  14. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    it just means it's happening in Mexico

    Now we gotta worry about Mexican terrorists too??!! When will it end? :D
  15. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    I have no issues to reevaluate. telling me to do so is pulling this holier than thou crap. My point is that not all laws are just. Oral sex is illegal in many states, which makes almost everyone criminals. If you want to live your life obeying whatever the Government tells you to, go ahead. Just remember that many Nazis used the same excuse.
  16. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    :)

    Actually, Mexicans have been testing the INS' ability to repel armed invasions for a while now. Many believe terrorists are testing our defenses in the South. Also, terrorists commonly enter the US through the Mexican/US border.
  17. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    What does that have to do with marijuana?
  18. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    I have no issues to reevaluate. telling me to do so is pulling this holier than thou crap.

    I am not saying that I haven't broken laws on occasion. Most of the time it's due to ignorance, but I have done it. I am not better than you, but neither am I proud of the fact that I break laws.

    My point is that not all laws are just.

    The problem is that it's not for you alone to decide which laws are just and worth following or not.

    Oral sex is illegal in many states, which makes almost everyone criminals.

    [face_laugh] Too true. In the military, any sexual position besides the missionary is against the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

    If you want to live your life obeying whatever the Government tells you to, go ahead. Just remember that many Nazis used the same excuse.

    There's a definite difference between following reasonable laws and going along with genocide. I assure you, if my country ever called on me to kill people for their race/creed, I would fight back with every ounce of strength that I had.

    EDIT: What does that have to do with marijuana?

    Sorry, I was replying to MadMardigan. :)
  19. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Then you can decide which laws are just or not.
    You have proven my point
  20. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Then you can decide which laws are just or not.

    Well, in that case, religion and morality comes in to play. As a Christian, I have to follow God's law over man's law. So I am not deciding what is just, God is. However, we are now getting into a philisophical discussion that I am honestly too tired to get into with you. Leave it to say that I am not deciding which laws to follow on my own, I am directed by morality and then law.
  21. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    My personal view on morality:
    "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them. If I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
    -Robert Heinlein
    This about sums it up. But beyond all of this, I do believe that marijuana should be legal for many reasons.
    First of all, yes, much of the money from drug sales goes to terrorism. If you legalize marijuana, the money would go to the government, which would then tax it, which would lead to anti-terrorism. If you only do this with marijuana, there are no issues involving injection. And it's not completely implausible. Look at Amsterdam. They have no huge terrorism problem, from what I can tell.
    Second, if you take away the illegality, and therefore stigma involved with smoking marijuana, people would be much less likely to go on to other drugs. Look at the Prohibition years. People had to go underground to get alcohol. It started lots of crime rings and led many people to things far worse than alcohol. When the label of illegal drug is taken off marijuana and instead applied to things that are actually harmful to you (such as crack, PCP, and heroin) it is good for the morale of the citizens. Over and over again, in polls a good deal of Americans have said that they believe marijuana, at least medicinal marijuana should be legalized. They don't like the idea that some little plant that affects them no worse than alcohol can put them in the same category as murderers, rapists, and terrorists.
    Which brings me to my third point. Jails are brimming with people that are only there because they sold pot. Under the law here, pot is considered a hallucinogenic and thus in the same category as LSD and ecstasy. Merely possession of marijuana can get you up to a year in jail. This is ludicrous. My cousin was caught selling marijuana and had to spend 2 months in jail. He had to wait for almost a year before there was a place available in the jail before serving his 2 months. With our prison systems so overcrowded, I think it's a good idea to rethink what can and can't get you in jail. What if he had been a child molester? Do you like the idea of a child molester having to sit and wait for a spot to open up before doing his time?
    And finally my fourth point is the fact that because of recreational marijuana is illegal, industrial hemp also is. Growing hemp has been illegal in the United States since 1937. You cannot get high from hemp. You can, however, use it for rope, fabric, paper, paint, and most importantly, energy. It is a renewable source of fuel that has failed to receive any government support or funding for research. Fossil fuels will run out. Hemp, an organic substance, will not. And yet we're concerned with the fact that people may use the stronger version of the plant to get themselves high. This makes me very sad for the human race.
  22. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    It's pointless arguing with these pro-legalization drug folk,because the common sense has left the brain a long time ago, and it's the drug talking.

    The only reason these stupid drug legalization debates are brought up is a way for these people who think drugs aren't bad or that certain drugs like Pot should be legal is so they can hear themselves talk and complain on a issue that the majority of the people in this country are ultimately against.

    They only want it legal for the very reason that they don't get in trouble. That is it. It's not about rights or personal freedom it's about not having to look over your shoulder when they light up to do their nasty habit. It's about not being held responsible for something they know is bad and illegal nothing more.

    It shouldn't be legal and I don't see it becoming legal in the near future, because there aren't enough pot head politicians out there yet Thank God.

    Oh and Jedistryker your dead on right about the drug dealers closing up shop. Do you think these evil people are going to be taxed, or pay for a permit, or be regulated? Hell no they will not be. They are in the business to begin with to make money and not have someone telling them this and that.
  23. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    "They only want it legal for the very reason that they don't get in trouble."

    Maybe you should use that mind reading ability to look deep into my brain, find a clue, and get it.

    Do you hear about beer smugglers? No, because smuggles beer. Why? Because it's legal. Do you hear about beer dealers selling it on the street? No. Why. Because it's legal.
  24. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    No that is the way I see it. You would rather do something or support others in doing substances which ruin lives. That is the deciding factor along with the fact that you don't want to get into trouble in doing something which is currently illegal by putting some sort of sugar coating on the issue saying everyone I know is an innocent flower child who isn't violent. Why don't you look up violent crimes, ranging from murder to robbery and 9 times out of 10 it's drug related. It becomes some peoples mission in life to get that high and to keep it, and they will do whatver they can to get it. It's a sickness which needs to first be addressed with a trip to rehab and then if it doesn't work then a trip to jail.
  25. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Not everyone who is for the legalization of drugs actually uses them. Something need not directly affect you for you to have a stance on it.

    For example, I am pro-choice, but as a man, will never be in need of an abortion.

    I see no reason that we should make things illegal simply because they are stupid. If that were a legitimate way of government, anything that could harm you if you were irresponsible with it would be illegal. If you rig an aerosol can, you can get extremely high, but also risk suffocating your brain and dying in the process. A lot of people have died at the hands of cheese-whiz, but I don't see anyone outlawing that, whereas the canabis-related deaths are nowhere near the level of frequency of Alcohol-related deaths.

    If we're to legistlate stupidity, why don't we make sure to set laws against, say... gasoline. That can screw you up if you drink it or inhale too much. Put too much nutmeg in your food for weeks and you'll probably start to hallucinate.

    Doughnuts are pretty bad for you: Let's make 'em illegal. So is red meat when you eat too much - let's fine people for eating it. And pasta. Too much of that can harden your arteries. Out with it! If we won't let people be stupid, why were Full Houseand Family Matters not made illegal?

    *sticks hand in blender and decides to sue because those bloody things should be illegal*
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