DT's FreedomCon

Discussion in 'Games: CCG, TCG, and Boardgames' started by Red84, Oct 22, 2001.

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  1. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Oct 20, 2000
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    I am interested in what the player community thinks of DeckTech taking it upon themselves to crown "World Champions" for Decipher's games. I've heard plenty of arguments from D's Product Chmapions from both sides of the aisle, but I'm curious as to what the players think about the whole thing. Feel free to post all your feelings and thoughts, just keep it clean and civil.
  2. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    I think the whole thing would depend on who went. I chose not to enter the whole "cancellation of D-Con" debate because is has nothing to do with me whatsoever (other than involving a game I play casually).

    However, I do see DeckTech as being an authority on the game due to the personalities that regularly contribute to the site. I like DeckTech to the extent that it gives me a good idea of what is "happening" in the game. ie popular decks, good cards, and the articles are often pretty good.

    It all comes back to who competes in the tournaments. If a player beats a feild that comprises the best players, than I have no problem trecognmising that player as the world champ.

    Having never played a tournament, I am really not in a position to say, but one thing must be kept in mind: Whatever happenes must be good for the game and it's future. I hope that a rift does not form between Decipher and DeckTech over what happens.

    To me, Decipher and DeckTech are like, let's say, the NFL and the player's union. DeckTech is the player's own group, while Decipher is the "company" that the players gain their status and salary (in this case, new expansions) from. We all know what happens when a rift between the player's association and the league develops.

    The name "FreedomCon" is interesting. Though not being American myself, I can still understand why it is so important to be showing that you are makign a stand for what your nation believes. From that regard, it is a good name. On the other hand, I hiope it does not mean "Deciphjer are cowards, and we are better than them". Again, I refer to my league-player association analogy.

    In conclusion, if the eventual winner has reigned supreme over a talented feild, than indeed crown them "world champions", no matter whose big tourney they are playing.

    Disclaimer: I myself am not going to judge the "worthiness" of the field. I will leave that to general consensus of my fellow players. May the most worthy player win, and good luck to all who complete.

  3. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    I don't like it.

    I don't like DeckTech taking it upon themselves to crown the "World Champion". That has historically been Decipher's prerogative, and DeckTech taking that upon themselves seems a bit conceited to me.

    Not to take anything away from the eventual winner of "FreedomCon". It will be a grueling contest, probably as intense as any Decipher World Championship event. Whoever wins that tournament will have accomplished an incredible feat. But they should not be recognized as a "World Champion" because it's not a World Championship event. It is an "alternative" event.

    BPJ compares it to the NFL and the players union. I compare it to the Oscars and the Golden Globe Awards.

    I disagree with BPJ that it depends on who shows up to play. Many players who normally would have gone to DecipherCon this year had already changed their plans to not go, before Holland made his decision.

    And I dislike the name. It's too much; over-the-top. Let's not get all self-righteous and think we're holding this tournament for some noble cause. It's a card game, not a Nobel Peace Prize. Like BPJ above, I fear it can be construed as criticism of Decipher's decision.

  4. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I lie in the middle of this debate. The Con is occuring at the same place as DCon and around the same time, so I think it could be construed as the world championships, especially since the people who can play in it are the same ones who qualified for worlds, but I also believe that for it to really be the world champoinship, Decipher should run it.
  5. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Decipher waived their right to declare a World Champion this year, so it is perfectly justifiable for DeckTech to take it upon themselves.
  6. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Okay. Then at my tournament next week I'll declare the winner the Star Wars CCG World Champion. That's just as valid as what DeckTech is doing, isn't it?

    :)

  7. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    From a certain point of view. But DeckTech represents a large group of SWCCG fans from around the world, not just one community or one state.
  8. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    And to back up Ultima's point, your tournament is not likely to attract (no offense) the kind of feild that FreedomCon is likely to.

    The only problem I can see happeniong is that whoever wins will be called the World Champion by some, and not by others. I don't know if any of you remember back to Worlds a few years ago when the winner used objectives from the then new Special Edition Set. The strategies used resulted in the particular objectives being errataed (I'm talking Operatives and Hidden Base)

    Some people (not all, and NOT me are saying that the winner4, whose name alludes me at the moment, is not a real World Champion due to the perceived brokeness of the strategies.

    The same is going to happen here. DeckTech will laud the winner as SW:CCG CHAMPION OF THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD, while Decipher may not even mention the fact, let alone recognize them.

    Heh, we may even get a situation like boxing and wrestling, where different corporations have their own "world champion", and in coming years we will get two world champs a year, each being recognized by their own particular groups as the reigning "Best there is"

    This may have worked for MLB and the NFL, but I don't see it happening here in the SW:CCG

    You know, this all brings me back to my original point: whatever happens must be good for the game. Having a world champions breed competition, something a game of any sort must have to survive. After all, why compete when there is no ultimate goal. Without competition, the best strategies would never be examined, and the game would never be better.

    No matter whose side you are taking in the matter, whether it be Decipher and DeckTech, remember that in the end it is a game. A darn good game, a game that is a lot of fun, but nonetheless a game.

    A game we want to keep going strong.

    Long live SW:CCG
  9. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    So you're saying a World Championship event is determined solely by who shows up? I would vehemently disagree with that.

    Suppose Decipher was to actually hold their World Championship this year, but the top 100 ranked players in the world didn't show up. It would still be considered the World Championship event. The Olympics didn't get canceled in (1980?) when the Americans boycotted the games in Russia.

    What determines a World Championship event? Whether or not the governing body has sanctioned that event as a World Championship event. Who is the governing body in Star Wars:CCG? It ain't DeckTech -- as much as they might like to think so.

    If Decipher chooses to sanction FreedomCon as a World Championship event, then that's fine with me. (I wasn't planning on going to DecipherCon, and I'm not planning on going to FreedomCon.) But Decipher hasn't done that. Until they do, it is pure conceit for DeckTech to call it a World Championship.

    BPJ reminds us what happened at a legitimate Decipher World Championship event, how divisive that event was for the game. I think DeckTech's conceit could lead to the same sort of divisiveness. Every champion coming out of that tournament who dares to declare himself a quote-unquote "World Champion" is going to stir controversy.

    A World Championship title is something that is GIVEN by the governing body - in this case, Decipher. It is not something you can just TAKE just because it is not currently being used, like a nosy neighbor who borrows your tools without asking, and argues, "Well, you weren't using them at the time."

    Those are my humble opinions, anyway....

  10. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Factual Info: Decipher has talked to DT and informed them that, although they will be a sanctioned event, Decipher will not be supporting that event at all. Decipher is not recognizing it as anything more than a Con.
  11. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    I guess there is an important word that I have neglected to put in my posts so far. That word is "official".

    Sanctioned, recognised, "official" doesn't really matter, what matters is that there is going to be a winner at FreedomCon, and there will be people who will declare that player World Champion.

    For me personally, it doen't really matter who is or isn't world champion,. but there are some issues that concern me. That was the crux of my posts. As far as I'm concerned, Decipher has the right to crown the Champion, but that really wasn't my point.

    Here is what I am getting at: Don't let the world Champuion issue hurt the game. I can see it now, John Doe attends FreedomCon and wins. DT calls him WC. But some players don't recognise him, and refuse to attend a tournament that John Doe is playing at out of protest. That will hurt the tourney.

    DT plans more and more tournaments in addition to their already huge schedule, and players start to flock to one group or the other. DT starts to flame Decipher, and Decipher does some legal stuff to DT. It sounds over the top, but it is possible. Really, there are already enough tournaments to satiate our "pro" plyer base. Don't let the game be spoilt over an issue like this.
  12. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    I can say that one thing I find deplorable is that a site like DT, who claim to be helping the game, can have WOTC banner ads in the midst of this whole licence issue. Such things aren't too constructive in convincing LFL to renew Decipher's licence. Balking at D's decision to not have Worlds this year compounds this defiant appearance and I believe sends a bad message.
  13. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    You know, Red84, I was thinking the same thing about the Magic ad.
  14. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Here's what DeckTech says about their "World Championship" title:


    I have a big question about Freedomcon. How can you run World Championships? Has Decipher given you permission to hand out a champion title?

    The FreedomCon World Championship level events are not recognized or supported by Decipher. As you know Decipher cancelled their World Championship this year. However, many players that worked very hard to qualify for those events disagreed with that decision.

    Many in our community feel it is unfair to let that hard work and accomplishment go un-rewarded. FreedomCon is our attempts to give those players back a very important choice, a choice that was taken from them.

    Are you going to let the terrorist frighten you into changing your life-style? That's why it's called terror-ism? They want us to give up what we love and enjoy and hide somewhere in fear. FreedomCon gives us the choice to demonstrate that as a community we will not let those terrorist bastards make us cower. You know what FreedomCon is? It's a way to say "Screw You", to the terrorist dogs that want us to hide in fear.

    Sure the title will not be "Star Wars CCG World Champion", rather it will be "FreedomCon World Champion - Star Wars", or trek, jk etc. But you know what? That title has more meaning behind it.

    It means that even without the thousands of dollars of corporate money or backing, the players of our community were able to pull together with their own funds and take a stand against terrorism. It means that they were able to organize a convention despite incredible odds, raise money for a good cause, and recognizing the players that deserve it. Is it an Official World Champion title? No. But it will be better than that. It is the championship title for the brave hearted gamer.


    Here's the problem. DeckTech is trying to position this as anti-terrorist, but everything they say - every word that comes out of their mouth - makes it sound anti-Decipher more than anti-terrorist.

    "FreedomCon is our attempts to give those players back a very important choice, a choice that was taken from them." Implication: A choice that was taken from them by Decipher.

    "A choice?" What choice? A competition is not a choice. By couching it in terms of "choice", they appeal to our sense of liberty ... but one's liberty was never at stake here.

    "Are you going to let the terrorist frighten you into changing your life-style?" Implication: Decipher let the terrorists frighten them.

    "It's a way to say 'Screw You', to the terrorist dogs that want us to hide in fear. Implication: It's also a way to say "screw you" to Decipher, who "took your choice away".

    "Sure the title will not be 'Star Wars CCG World Champion', rather it will be 'FreedomCon World Champion - Star Wars', or trek, jk etc. But you know what? That title has more meaning behind it." Implication: Isn't it obvious? "More meaning?"

    "It is the championship title for the brave hearted gamer." Implication: Decipher is not brave, and anyone choosing not to come (particularly those who had originally planned on attending DecipherCon) are cowards.

    BPJ, the markings are all over this. FreedomCon will be a divisive event. DeckTech has positioned it that way. Being divisive is what they're striving for. They feel morally superior to Decipher right now, and they are riding their high horse.

    It's not about fighting terrorism. It's about a card game.

  15. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    I don't lioke what I have just read. That DeckTech article is divisive. There was no need for the "we're so good" talk. At no point haqve I actually taken a stance for anything but unity. DT banging their drum, and saying that their world championship is more important than Decipher's, that is what annoys me.

    This is my last post on the matter.

    DT, don't let this issue destroy the game.
  16. Ian_Vincent Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2001
    For Young Jedi, few would doubt that DCon '01 was to be the last world championships (regardless of licenses).

    I would have called FreedomCon the Player's Championships rather than the worlds but I think that's a mute point.

    Given that the current World, North American and European champions are all going to FreedomCon. It will be the winner there that is recognised by YJ players as their champion and that's what matters.

    Ian

    ps I wonder how many "undesputed" world champions the players of Decipher's games will have?
  17. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    It has now gone too far. I received an e-mail from Decktech explaining where the money for their prizes is coming from.

    Get this: WotC is paying. Yes, you heard me, Wizards are actually sponsoring the event.




    sigh :(
  18. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    I read that too.

    Guys, there aren't too many ways to look at this. These are LAVISH prizes being offered by a COMPETITOR of Decipher. I doubt WOTC offers such prizes for their OWN games' world championships (if they even have one).

  19. Wraith_009 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Actually Wizards gives huge cash prizes for their large Magic tournaments. And well this is just an attempt to smooth over any hard feelings towards wizards before they release their new game (which is coming). Cause now it's getting pretty obvious that SW is done from the Decipher side, Kyle, Juz, Kevin et al are all working primarily on LOTR now apparently, which means they aren't needed for SW anymore.

  20. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    There are a few things that need to be said about the liscence issue.

    The first is that all the effort being put into LOTR is not a clear indication of the liscence being lost. There are a couple of factors that need to be looked at here:

    1) LOTR has a following that rivals and possibly even surpasses Star Wars. It is a huge liscence to get, and there is the opportunity to greatly expand Decipher's customer range. Just look at the coverage that the game gets over at theonering.net!

    Decipher needs to handle the game with care because there is an amazing opportunity for them here. After all, who heard of Decipher before they got the Star Trek and Star Wars lisence? I hadn't. I knew about their party games, but not the company. Now it is a company whose web site I ,and many others, visit every day.

    SO why not push LOTR? It is an important game for Decipher. Maybe they are going to lose the lisence, and they have a void to fill? I don't know.

    Let's look at history a little here. Do you remember when YJ came out? I do. All Decipher talked about was YJ. What about JK? There were celebratuions, competitions, articles about creators etc, etc etc. Sound familiar?

    It should. Decipher is doing the same for LOTR as it did for JK. All we heard about for months was JK. Any company tries hard to promote their new product. IF a new lisence fails, can you imagine how much money is lost? The trick is to promote the new, while still remembering the old.

    Star Wars is D's most popular product, and in some ways with the most insatiable fans. We have been given a smourgasboard of SW. So I dobn't like the opinion that some have that we SW fans are being "forgotten". OS here ends my first point: LOTR does not equal end for SW.

    Second point: AOTC is expected next year. Decipher only managed to get lisence/ authority to get Ep1 last year. Now I have a serious question for you:

    Are you willing to be focusing on Ep1, while you are excited about Ep2?

    The question for me is "No". What I noticed when TPM came out is that a lot of dream cards focued on the movie. People wanted to play with Darth Maul! YJ let tyhem do that to an extent.

    But I know personally that I want to be playing Ep2 ASAP.

    BTW, as has been pointed out, you will notice that most product lisences are Episode to Episode, so the need to renew is a natural occurance.

    BPJ
  21. Wraith_009 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    If you read between the lines, see the cryptic messages leaking out from wizards through other sources ie decktech, you can see that as of April fools day next year it will be SW TCG by WOTC.
  22. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    Or I read, hey guys, Wizrds give great prizes so why don't you play our game, and buy our product? We would love you to play our game if we made one, but here, why play Star Wars when you can join the Majic Pro tour. Hey, you might even get the sasme prizes.

    Here's how I see it. Decktech is annoyed with Decipher. Who is currently Decipher's main competition? Wizards.

    From my understanding, Wizards and Decipher are the two biggest tournament companies for cards (If I am wrong, I would like to see evidence otherwise, and I am happy to admit my mistake) So Wizards sees 2 things:

    1)people who play seriously
    2) people who buy cards seriously

    Wizards wants people to do these things for them. What better way than give a somewhat false impression of their prize support.

    Also, there is something interesting to note: it is not the card gaming division of Wizards that is supporting, but the Star Wars fan club division.

    Wizards may well want the lisence. But them promoting and sponsoring the tournament is NMO evidence that they will have the liscence.

    They may well get the lisence. If they do, then I will become a keen collector of LOTR, and player of SW, because I am not going to start the new Star Wars game when I already have one I like. I never played Middle Earth, and, because I have looked "into" it, I don't like it.

    But being a Star Wars fan did not automatically make me a card gamer. Back in he Premier days, I bought a starter, had a lokk, and all these yearsd later I am a satisfied customer.

    On the other hand, I bought JK, had a look, and went no further.

    My point? I hope Decipher keeps the lisence because I like the game. Pure and simple.

  23. Ian_Vincent Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Well, for very little cost Wizards have pulled off quite a PR job here.

    I mean, the total cost of the YJ (or JK) prizes must be less than $1000, that's like 10% of what Decipher are giving to charity for that game.

    I don't like what DeckTech have done and probably wont be keeping my medal(s).

    Ian

    ps And I bet they don't even have British versions of the prizes available :-(
  24. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Okay, guys, I have talked to Decipher about this fiasco. Unfortunately they must remain "diplomatic" about all this...but that doesn't mean that I/we do.

    What DT has done imo is completely outrageous. I doubt they realize that wotc is milking them for whatver their worth. The best thing we can do right now is support Decipher 100%. And I don't just mean silently. A post on DT's comments board (under the news story) or a post in Decipher's BBS or a post on your local CCG listerv or just talking with fellow players are ALL excellent ways to show your friends and Decipher that you support them.

    Whatever the case may be, DT has gone way over the line because they truly think that they represent the sentiments of the Star Wars gaming community. They need to know that that is not the case. For this reason I would also like to strongly move those of you who may be/are planning to attend DT to instead stay home and participate in local events that weekend. If there aren't any, then go see the Ep2 trailer a dozen times or something. Whatever the case may be, DT is wrong, wrong, wrong on top of being disrespectful, tactless, dishonorable, and disgusting. Don't agree with me? Take a look at what one of the DT people wrote in Shannon Baksa's guestbook (WARNING: the comments are rather...explicit...so please do not go there if you have kids around or are a kid yourself).

    Please, show Decipher your support the best way you know how. Believe me, they DO appreciate the support and they DO hear the playing community (through people like me).
  25. Anakin_Solo73 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 2
    DeckTech sucks anyways. All they do is complain and berate players. While DeckTech started as a well functioning website for the game, it degraded into a "I can make a deck better than you, using you deck idea" type of forum for these obsessive players.
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