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Dungeons and Dragons Crossover

Discussion in 'Archive: Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by DexRicon, Sep 16, 2003.

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  1. DexRicon

    DexRicon Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 17, 2003
    I've been considering doing a D&D crossover. The D&D world is in the middle of the Deep Core and there is a powerful Sith Lord who has discovered some powers of Wizardry or something like that.

    But I keep getting stuck at some rules points.

    With the VP/WP rules, a first level SW character would end up being as powerful as a 2nd or 3rd lvl D&D character. A 1st lvl fighter with a Con of 10 would literally twice as powerful if he were a 1st lvl Soldier.

    Combined with that, Star Wars weapons deal a lot more damage. A Rogue with a Con of 12 would on average be knocked out if he were hit by a blaster pistol.

    Also, when it comes to movement, does 6m per round equate to 20 feet? I guess it would have to. Grr...this seems so hard to pull off, but the story potential is just too great to give up on.
     
  2. FrobiWanKenobi

    FrobiWanKenobi Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 28, 2002
    Just make all D&D characters 2nd or 3rd level so that they are on par with the SW characters isn't that like the level ajustment that D&D and d20 Modern use for the more powerful races?

    You could say that since magic works on the planet then energy weapons don't forcing the PCs to use D&D arms.

    For game purposes I'd say that 2 meters equals 5 feet but that system falls apart quick so you might just convert over to one type of units completely like you said above.
     
  3. Gorin_Zachian

    Gorin_Zachian Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 13, 2002
    Another problem with that is dealing with Magical speels. You have to realize things like Fireballs or Cone of Cold will deal damage DIRECTLY to WP, due to the very nature of the spells.

    ZI tried, once, to run a D&D game with VP/WP, but it's impssiable to do that and maintain any semblence of realism, due to the magic. I'm sorry, but a fireball explodeing all around you you can't avoid the lethality of, even with a reflex save.

    Thats why i like GURPS SO much more......
     
  4. Diverjkc

    Diverjkc Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Back to the old debate:
    Magic and technology both use the laws of physics to opperate. Technology uses what nature has already set up to be usefull. Magic warps the laws to create its own uses. You could rule that any time the heros are within, say 50m, of a magic user, any technology they use has a 20% chance of failing. The same with magic, within 50m of technology, there is a 20% chance that the spell will either not preform as expected or fail outright. Now, the question is "what defines technology?" Simply stated, anything that uses power packs, power cells, or chemical combustion to function is technology. That includes light sabres, blasters, powered armor, slug throwers, and many other things. Now how will the force work with magic. You could rule that magic is mearly an extention of the force, or vica versa. Lets say that the force and magic are totaly different things, do they get along? Or do they cancel each other out? Or do they become magnafied in the presence of the other?
     
  5. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    I see Diverjkc is an avid Arcanum player... ;)
     
  6. DexRicon

    DexRicon Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 17, 2003
    For the Force vs Magic, I was going to figure that they're coexistant but not cooperative. Any Force ability that works only against the Force wouldn't work, such as Force Defense. But an ability that works against anything would still do it's thing against damage. Deflect, Dissipate Energy, and Force Points would still do their thing.

    For Magic, anything that would work against a non magical things would work against the Force. If it grants a saving throw against magic abilities only, it's useless.
    In a related topic, Magic Users appear as non force sensitives to See Force. Force Users appear as non-Magic Users to other Magic Users.

    Gorian, I totally agree with you. The VP/WP concept is wonderful, but the nature of D&D doesn't work very well with such divided HP. Besides, your idea makes spell users a lot more dangerous

    A section in DM Guide v3.5 doesn't mention any adverse reactions from technology around magic when it describes advanced tech in the D&D universe.

    Another thing I've found confusing came from the d20 dipping article I read. How would a lightsabre deal with armor? D&D characters, except the Monk, don't get class bonuses and the lightsabre ignores armor unless it's specifically made to defend against it. If this was the case, a 1st level Jedi Guardian could almost go toe to toe with a 4th or 5th level Fighter, which would suck. For that matter, how would crits work? I may just decide to omit them from the Star Wars side for the simple reason that Star Wars weapons are so powerful anyway. A natural twenty is an automatic attack and that's it.

    Also, what about the Weapon Proficiency (Primitive Weapons) Feat? It covers anything non technological weapon that's not a club, knife, or longsword. But in D&D, a bow and a slingshot are entirely different weapons. Do I force the weapon proficiency feat into a Martial weapons or simple weapons feat depending on the character's preferred weapon?
     
  7. Diverjkc

    Diverjkc Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Dec 9, 2002
    Yes, I play Arcanum. Also, primitive weapons prof. only covers crude weapons, stone axes, clubs, and other stone-age weapons. Simple weapons are refined primitive weapons, snap-baton, stunclub, things your normal street tough would use. As for swords, they are exotic. I would say the primitive weapons feat covers non-projectile weapons made from unrefined natural materials. Simple weapons covers thrown, and non-bladed, non-powered refined weapons. Bladed weapons would require the exotic prof. Now you could rule that taking the vibro weapons prof could reduce the penatly to -2 (instead of -4) when using D&D blades. If the weapons are enchanted, it takes exotic prof, without exotic prof you not only take the normal -4, but an additional -2 since magic is unfamiliar to you. Any SW hero that enters the D&D world could take an "Acustomed [to magic]" feat to remove the extra -2.
     
  8. ToxicNed

    ToxicNed Grand Poobah of Madison WI - FF CR star 4

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    May 2, 2002
    A little something that you may wish to think about for this crossover: Can Jedi deflect or block Magic Missiles?

    One of my players, who is also the DM for my D&D game, got started on this discussion with both our Star Wars group and our D&D group. We still don't have a resolution.
     
  9. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    re: Magic Missles, it depends on how you define them. If they are defined as "arcane energy," then no -- Jedi lightsabers should not deflect a magic missle (different energy wavelengths, etc.)...

    ... if, however, they are deemed "unerringly striking magic projectiles," then the Jedi should have the Mage roll an attack roll with a +20 circumstance bonus to hit (the same bonus True Strike gives you, according to the new ToEE CRPG). If the Mages misses, then the Jedi blocks it, though can't reflect it back (as a projectile, it will simply be absorbed by the lightsaber)...
     
  10. ToxicNed

    ToxicNed Grand Poobah of Madison WI - FF CR star 4

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    May 2, 2002
    We're using the "unerringly striking magic projectiles" definition, and that's where the conflict is.

    If they're unerringly striking, then they hit automatically. But the Jedi can deflect/absorb ranged attacks as per their skill. It's a nice little conundrum and ultimately comes down to GM rule.
     
  11. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    If they're unerringly striking, then they hit automatically. But the Jedi can deflect/absorb ranged attacks as per their skill. It's a nice little conundrum and ultimately comes down to GM rule.

    Not necessarily, "unerringly" *could* mean "All things being equal, or even not so equal, it's going to strike its target (e.g.99.44%)" while still allowing for the 0.56% chance that it misses. This is where the +20 circumstance bonus to the attack roll comes into play -- it's pretty damn high. If it misses, it won't be by much, most likely.

    Remember -- even Bullseye missed... when the circumstances were right. ;)
     
  12. The_Ghost

    The_Ghost Jedi Youngling

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    Apr 20, 2003
    consider even a magic missile can be reflected by a monk of sufficiently high level.
     
  13. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    consider even a magic missile can be reflected by a monk of sufficiently high level.

    How so? Is this an "Improved Evasion" thing, and if so, it wouldn't be "reflected," would it?
     
  14. Gorin_Zachian

    Gorin_Zachian Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 13, 2002
    Actually, it can't. There is not ranged attack roll, so the deflect Arrows featy dosen't apply, and there is no saving throw, so Improved Evasion dosen't help either.
     
  15. Fingorfin

    Fingorfin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 7, 2001
    Yep. Bullseye missed when the plot needed him to; convenient, isn't it? :p

    I thought that Magic Missile was an automatic hit, or did this change with 3.5?
     
  16. Gorin_Zachian

    Gorin_Zachian Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 13, 2002
    It is still an automatic Hit, no Save, for 1d4+a Points of damage. You get 1 extra missle at 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level, which cna be directed at the same target, or any targets within 30 ft. of each other.
     
  17. DarthArraKul

    DarthArraKul Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 30, 2003
    gyar.. gyar (( pirate noises ))

    first off i would make the jedi make a save to see if it can be deflected....

    then.. if that succeeds.. they need to make an attack... something hard to hit.. i dunno.. too early to come up with that..
    and then only then.. if both those conditions are met.. they can deflect.... however... if they fail either.... the missle hits
     
  18. Fingorfin

    Fingorfin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 7, 2001
    You could just let the magic missile take out vitality points, like a standard hit. When you get down to it, that would have the same effect as the HP damage that it does to D&D characters. Plus, because of the nature of vitality points (representing near hits, on true damage), it gives the GM a good way to show the mages that Jedi are not normal magic users.

    :eek: "He dodged my Magic Missile!"
     
  19. DexRicon

    DexRicon Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 17, 2003
    If Jedi aren't normal characters, then what about those who don't use the Force? Would they still get vitality or what?
     
  20. Gorin_Zachian

    Gorin_Zachian Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 13, 2002
    Thats the problem, if you use the spell the way it reads, you would not. That means your first level speel that is in almots every speelbook and Scorcerers Blood is powerful enough to kill most characters, even at level 20, with 2-3 missles, and if you have 4, then their just dead.

    Thats why it's so difficult to mingle the two settings, magic and the VP/WP system just don't mesh.
     
  21. Fingorfin

    Fingorfin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 7, 2001
    You could convert all characters to one system or the other. If it is primarily a SW game that takes a side trek to the D&D world, then it would be reasonable to convert the D&D guys to the vitality system. Use the same rules as SW, give them wounds equal to their CON score and use thier hit die as the vitality die. Treat all damage as it would normaly work in SW (crits ignore vitality, all other damage is taken from vitality first). It might not make perfect sense in the real world, but, hey, this is fantasy.
     
  22. DexRicon

    DexRicon Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 17, 2003
    The thing I was planning was a little more over reaching. An all powerful Sith Lord crashes onto the D&D planet and learns magic. When the heroes' distress call is heard after they crash onto the planet a few decades later, the Sith Lord steals the ship that responds and heads out into the galaxy with an army of very pissed off orcs. The Star Wars heroes and their D&D allies then have to go out and destroy them. It would end up being a very climatic battle as Jedi and Wizards and Dwarves and Wookies fight alongside each other against insurmountable odds.

    I was hoping for even crossover characters, such as Fighter/Scouts, although I'd have to limit certain combos, such as crossing into a Noble or a Sorcerer or Druid. The sheer possibilities are endless (can anyone imagine how cool a Jedi casting spells would be? It would be a munchkin's dream ;) ), but the hurdles are high.

    That's another question...would a Jedi using an offensive spell like magic missile gain a DSP? According to the idea that I came up with, no, because the Force and Magic are separate entities but that doesn't seem right at all. Grr
     
  23. Diverjkc

    Diverjkc Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Dec 9, 2002
    Perhaps to limit the scale of destruction the Sith Lord could inflict, make his Sith levels and his Mage levels both add to his Char level. So if he is a powerfull sith, then he is a weaker mage. Or the other way around. Keep the 20 lvl cap for him.
     
  24. DexRicon

    DexRicon Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 17, 2003
    I don't like the 20 lvl cap, never did. Never had a reason to go through it, but I don't like the idea. Hyperpowerful characters excite me.
     
  25. TheExecutor

    TheExecutor Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Take a look at my Cross over thread posted on this BB!
     
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