Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Shadow_of_Evil, Jul 4, 2002.
better then nothing at all.
No it's not, "nothing at all" is all they had to do to the originals before putting them on DVD.
Just a question. Why do you seem to bag on the prequels so much? I was with you the first couple of times you saw TPM and you never bagged it then? I don't recall you being like that about AOTC when it came out either. Were you just biting your tongue all that time or has your opinion really changed that much? Just wondering.
Well, you asked.
I'll admit to being caught up in the hype in '99 when TPM first came out, I got into it, sure there were a couple of things about the film that bothered me, but I could see past those, and after a while I realised I was seeing past those to still more problems that just didn't add up to making a good film.
This wasn't the Star Wars that we got in 1977.
Now I know that I open myself to all sorts of flaming for this, and I wouldn't dare post this in any other areas of the JC because I would be roundly shouted down with such insightful inputs like "yoo suk!!1!" and "George kan doo no rong!!1!"
Well kids, Unca Goerge has lost the plot.
Before you swipe my head off for saying that with your toy lightsabres, let's look at some facts.
The first Star Wars came along in a time of a Sci-Fi drought, it was new, fresh, and it just seemed to work in the time it arrived.
This was followed by arguably the most succesful sequel of all time, The Empire Strikes Back in 1980.
Please note that this film was not directed by Lucas, something often forgotten by people when they go on about what a great director he is.
Empire for me is the best film in the saga, the plot twists and dialogue alone have forged themselves in our culture and language far more than even the first film. In short, excellent writing by Lucas, and excellent directing by Kurtz.
Return of the Jedi, was imo, half of a good movie ruined by the need to wrap things up fast. I enjoyed the rescue of Solo, but by this time the imaginative steam was losing momentum. Another Death Star? Why?
I'll give it this, it was the conclusion of a saga that spawned many imitators, had one of the best ever space battle scenes and brought closure to a trilogy of films that took the world by storm.
But this was in the late 70's and early 80's, and as I've already said, it was new and different.
by 1999, we had already had all the imitators come and go, Star Wars had even been credited with resurrecting Star Trek and we'd been bombarded with that franchise's series and films for a while by this time. As well as the countless other sci-fi films and series that had really put sci-fi/fantasy right up front in many ppl's lives.
Then along come the special editions. All of a sudden the original fx made on a shoe string budget by a film maker putting his last ounce of energy and last coin in his pocket to get made was shameful to look at. To some it couldn't possibly measure up to the glitzy fx that were being show cased by the latest 150 million dollar blockbuster.
So Lucas decided he wanted to go back and "finish" his unfinished films (they looked finished to me anyway) and removed the heart and soul work by many talented people who got their start in the industry on those films, and replaced them with soulless CGI and glity FX so they'd measure up to the blockbuster FX movie of the day: StarShip Troopers *guffaw*.
So in short, you want to know why I don't like the prequels?
Because Lucas proved in 1997 that he had lost his way, all of a sudden good storytelling had to make way for glitzy FX and characters that would sell in the toy aisle. Look at AotC, it's a two hour toy commercial.
Now I like Star Wars, hell, I LOVE Star Wars, but I love the Star Wars I was given in 1977, and it didn't need 100 million dollars worth of FX to make it what it was, something Lucas has forgotten.
If he thought about it, he could have acheived something very special with the prequels, but he dropped the ball. These films (IMO, don't go flaming me if you don't agree) don't have the heart, the plots or the likeable character mix of the original films.
At best, they are a shallow re-telling of old themes with mediocre characters, sub-par scripts and digital FX that are rapidly being dated and out done by other, more talented digital FX companies with more to prove and more incentive to turn out good quality material than a company relying on their name to get them through.
Let's be honest, if TPM had come out when it did and Star Wars had never prev
Good answer and I definately agree with you on the special editions.
As far as TPM goes, I do think it could have been a lot better and there are certain elements I didn't think much of but overall I still like watching it. AOTC I thought was very different though. I thought it was a great film and it seemed to me that GL learned from a lot of the mistakes made with TPM. Whether it holds up to the original trilogy is debatable but in many ways I thought it signalled a return to the sarwars we grew up with.
Perhaps this is a topic for another thread. We've had a good spoiler free speculation thread. Maybe we can do the unthinkable and have a thread in the JC forums that's flame free and discuss what we did or didn't like about the prequels. It might be interesting to see what good points we all agree on and what bad points we all agree on.
I could put my view across about all this but I won't since I'll probably get my head ripped off.
You won't get your head ripped off.
Not if you can actually post your opinion without resorting to flaming, baiting or any of the other kind of crap that goes on in other areas of these boards.
But if you want a friendly chat about your point of view, then by all means go ahead
'I could put my view across about all this but I won't since I'll probably get my head ripped off.'
A comment like that is, IMO, just there to provoke someone and not very necessary.
Your views are more than welcome, and as SM pointed out, if you don't cause trounle, there will not be any.
so again with the prequel knocking. Fair enough, we all have our own opinion. I might as well include my own then ... TPM was, for the most part, a poor update of the original formula. However, and this is something many people fail to notice, the success of TPM didn't completly rely on fans of the original trilogy. In fact, if you were to take all of the reviews of the movie together into a pile, you can most probably split them into two. One will be those who are fans who hated the film for various reasons, the other half will be those who know of the original trilogy, though haven't exactly seen it, and enjoyed the lighthearted entertainment that TPM came to be. It was more a kids film, and arguably the original trilogy was aswell (why else would they include Ewoks). The same can be said about AOTC.
As it is, I like both prequels. Sure, they aren't in the same league as the original trilogy (and yes, I do know Lucas didn't direct ESB, in case you were wondering), but it's harmless fun. And I'll say the same about Episode III, whether it's a blockbuster or not. That's just me. I go into a cinema not to be educated or given a believable situation (though there are exceptions, Schindler's List for one), but to be entertained. To have fun. Cheesy as they are, the prequels are fun.
And how can you not like Yoda? I mean, really
so again with the prequel knocking
Dude, I was asked my opinion, so I gave it, it's not knocking, it's discussion.
So, to continue the discussion:
I see what you're saying about it being there also for a new generation of fans, but even my 8 year old son and his friends prefer the original trilogy over the new ones, (it should be noted though, that they prefer the SE's to the originals) and not one of them likes that gungan.
And I don't know about Yoda, he was fine in AotC, but in TPM he was a shallow git at best.
All I was saying in that last post is that if the new trilogy had come out now without the success of the OT behind them, I seriously doubt if we would be here discussing the new films now, and a sequell to TPM would likely not have been made.
As stand alone films, TPM is a boring snooze fest, with all the characters on their way to, from or in a meeting, and AotC is ok, with passable CGI effects and a not very gripping story line, but it makes up for it with good action sequences.
I also don't go into a film expecting an education or enlightenment, but I do expect to be entertained and see a good film with good work behind it.
Sorry, but imo they only just scraped through with AotC and failed to hit the mark with TPM.
Actually reading SM's comments is a reminder of how close to the mark that new Simpsons Cosmic Wars episode is based on the bits I've seen.
Anyway, I think this can be discussed without it turning in to a flame fest. I did ask for SM's opinion and he gave it in a good way. I think I might start up a new thread for it. I know we've had threads about it when the movies were new but now there's been time for the hype to settle down there could be new viewpoints.
No flaming here, pal Love it or hate it, we all have our own comments to make, and that's more then welcome.
Anyway, to the reason I'm here, Shattered Glass has been confirmed for a July 7 release.
i've been lookign around for this dvd for a while.
*sigh* oh well...i must wait
I know plans for the DVD release of STarwars are finalised but there's still a strong movement to get a release of the original - original trilogy on DVD.
Not to flog a dead horse but I agree with S_M on his view of the Prequel Trilogy on most points. I admit there are moments that do seem to work within AOTC and TPM, but it's a very sad occasion when a series of previously successful movies can only come up with moments.
Yoda and Liam Neeson seem to me to work best in TPM--Yoda does get to unload a verbal can of whoopass on Qui-Gon and Anakin during the course of the movie, and Liam Neeson adds some (hard-fought by him, so the rumour goes) humanity to his Jedi that's sorely missing from Ewan McGregor's mahogany performance otherwise.
In AOTC Christopher Lee fulfils his role, and does it quite nicely--evil with class. But he and Ian McDiarmid just seem somehow trapped inside the kiddie theme-park fantasia that seems to be this trilogy's milieu. I think what saves them both is that when you've got a good thirty years of acting experience (not to mention a cool English accent ) it's usually pretty difficult to go wrong.
I think what rankles most about TPM and AOTC is how nice everything looks in the universe. Lots of rounded edges, smooth architecture, rainbows of colour and spotless clothing even in the most harsh desert environments. Don't Coruscant's streets look like the nicest slums in creation? If anyone's ever tempted to do an "Attack of the Edits" version of AOTC, please splice in some footage from "Blade Runner" in there somewhere to give it a real cyberpunk feel, which is what you'd expect planetsized city to have. George started with battered, worn-in technology in ANH and ended up with top-of-the-line new models for every arcane bit of technology. I once tried to fool myself that this was a thematic choice to somehow to reflect the "golden age" of the Republic, but I don't buy it anymore--there's always grit and dirt somewhere--unless you're George Lucas.
But as I think I've said before, the difference between ANH and TPM/AOTC is the difference between "Blues Brothers" and "Blues Brothers 2000": the original being gritty, witty, and exciting, the new version slow, wandering, and seeming to have too closely in mind standing on the shoulders of the first movie rather than building its own following.
That could be why I've never seen BLues Brothers 2000.
That was an evil movie. I got dumped after seeing it. Lots of fun...
But that wasn't my reason for commenting. I was going to say that the 50 million car crash was rather amusing. They just wanted to top the crashes that were seen in Blues Brothers. And, from memory, there were some running jokes that continued through both the films. Like the broken watch sequence. I'm sure there were others... I'll have to dig up both movies and sit down and watch them again.
BB 2000 wasn't that terrible a movie. John Goodman was brilliant in it. But there was no real explanation of where Jake disappeared to. That especially should have been bought up.
I know everyone has their own opinions on movies and stuff, but don't justify not seeing a movie because someone else has said that it was rubbish. Make up your own mind about it. You're allowed to have differing opinions to the rest of the crowd, but make sure that you don't dismiss something because someone else said to.
Blah blah blah, yak yak yak...
this is just a thought but
do you think TPM and AOTC would have been critized differently if TPM was the first time the world ever saw Starwars?
So if the original trilogy had never been made (or hadn't been made yet) and they started with TPM released in 1999.
Ok, but going by that scenario, Lucas wouldn't have been able to fund it himself right?
So, had it been released as the first time anyone saw Star Wars, there wouldn't have been the huge hoopla surrounding it's opening that it got, and the poor word of mouth would have seen it suffer at the box office.
And if it had to be funded by a studio, with little return, a sequel would have been very doubtful.
...On the other hand, studio executives might've asked for a half-decent script and maybe TPM could've been the wonderful opening to a six-movie saga that could've got better and better as the decades went on.
On a related note, I see that joyous chestnut of a B-Movie "Battle Beyond The Stars" is on at 1:30 a.m. on Tuesday night. Warm up your VCRs, folks.
That could also have been the case.
Battle beyond the stars hey? an overlooked masterpiece
I've seen worse!
Got the RotK DVD today, few features to speak of and this theatrical edition lacks the music video and extended edition preview the other two had. That said though, it's only a holdover until the EE is released
I'll be picking that up today. I think just having the movie is good enough for me, never mind the extras. Considering it's released earlier in the year in comparison to the last two theatrical releases, I can understand why there isn't an extended edition preview.
To be honest, I often go out of my way to go for DVDs with extra features and then never end up watching them. I guess it's just cooler to have the version with lots of extra stuff even if I never get around to checking it out.