DVMatte Keyer (gasp)

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by PixelMagic, Sep 15, 2002.

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  1. PixelMagic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 5
    Does the DVMatte Keyer plug-in work better than Primatte for pulling mattes on DV footage? I have had horrible results when it comes to keying DV footage. Probably because my camera is such poor quality, but still. Anyway, does the DVMatte keyer keep details such as fine hair detail or smoke?
  2. glh3586 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 1
    Yes Dv Matte works wondefully on DV footage. I've been able to keep a lot of the detail of the scene (like hair). It doesn't neccisarily work better than primatte but its much faster, and it works wonders on dv footage.
  3. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

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    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    There's no one stop tool that will take care of the issues that you're dealing with. As I've said before -- every keyer responds differently to every piece of footage (much of the difference in the keyers results from the individual keying methodologies, linear or geometric keying for example). Issues of the variety that you've described in the past won't be solved by just purchasing a new app (even if it is dvMatte).

    There are a million techniques, however, that may benefit you -- building your own keyer, performing levels adjustments to individual color channels, playing with luminescence information, channel blurs... These techniques in combination with various keying plug-ins will provide you with a toolset that will allow you to attack your footage from different angles until you find the appropriate solution to your specific problems.
  4. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

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    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    To Rive you listen.

    The more I find out about keying, the more I find I have to learn. Try to learn as many techniques as you can, then you really will have an good arsenal to attack any shot with.

    DVMatte is an awesome, must-have keyer (IMHO), but it isn't ideally suited to every single keying task, none of them are. It really depends on the shot as to what method you use.
  5. DorkmanScott Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Rive, I hope you have that saved as a document file somewhere so you can just copy and paste it whenever you need it.

    M. Scott
  6. Ptx Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2000
    star 4
    This is all greatstuff, reall it is. So where's my Composite Toolkit!?!

    I'm looking at you, DVGarage....

    Pete - master of the veiled threat.
  7. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    They've officially just begun shipping. I know it was a long time -- but there's something like 7000 hours of work in the thing at this point. Hopefully it will be worth the wait.

    Alex and I are speaking at the MGLA on Tuesday night about the CTK. LA people, see if you can make it! :)
  8. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

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    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Hey very cool Rive.

    I would have really liked to be able to see that (obviously just so I could heckle you from the back) but it looks like being a very interesting event. Kudos
  9. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    Yeah. Lots of cool speakers coming... I'll wave my hands a couple of extra times just for you though, Daft.
  10. Ptx Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2000
    star 4
    Obi-Wan - Waves his hands and Stormtroopers let him go.

    Rive - Waves his hand and we all buy the DV Matte keyer.

    Does anyone else see the connection here?

    *Wraps tinfoil round head*

    Pete
  11. PixelMagic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 5
    Well, Dave, sounds as though you don't think it makes that much difference when keying. So I just won't buy it now.
  12. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

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    star 4
    C'mon, Pixel. You're smarter than that. What I'm saying (and what I've said to you in the past) is that you seem to have a fixation on finding a tool to solve your keying woes, rather than finding techniques. I'm quite sure that having dvMatte will make your life easier (there's a reason why so many people have been singing its praises), but I'm also confident that, without having additional techniques to take on the problems you're encountering, you'll end up just as disappointed and frustrated with it as you apparently have everything else.

    The problem is this: you ask, "does the DVMatte keyer keep details such as fine hair detail or smoke?" The answer to the question is, "Yes." Of course, so do Primatte and the Color Difference Keyer -- which you already have (hell, for that matter, so do Color Key and Color Range under the right circumstances). But they're not going to be able to do it on their own in most cases -- you need additional techniques to supplement the keyer and finish out the shot just like you do in 3D. And, to make things just a bit more complicated, not every shot responds to every keyer in the same way. You'll find that, in one instance, Primatte is the way to go -- nothing else will work. Then you turn around, and Primatte isn't liking the shot, so you use dvMatte -- and it gives you the results you expect. But either way, in nearly all cases, I find that my work is supplemented and filled out by additional techniques.

    In the end, if you're looking for a software solution to the problem, you'll go on being dissatisfied. Techniques to solve the problem are really what you need.
  13. Shawn PTH Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 4
    He said a lot more than that pixel. One thing the DVG DV Matte Keyer comes with is the compositing tool kit which will give you a ton of insight to keying things out. Including many different methods to approach your footage. There is no one program that will do all the work for you in this case. But some of the tools and methods tought in the composite tool kit could really help you on your way.
  14. Shawn PTH Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 4
    Bah rive beat me like a red headed step child. and his was longer =(





    ;)
  15. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

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    star 4
    Always nice to know that you've got my back though, Shawn. :)
  16. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

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    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    sounds as though you don't think it makes that much difference when keying. So I just won't buy it now.

    Just out of interest Pixel, did you honestly reach that conclusion from what has been posted here, or where you just pulling our leg?
  17. PixelMagic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 5
    No, I wasn't pulling anyone's leg. I thought DVMatte keyer made a HUGE difference the way everyone was singing it's praises. But Dave made it sound like it only does slighty better. So I didn't see any reason why I shouldn't just stick with Primatte. However, I suppose I can afford to shell out the cash and have it handy if I need it. Argh, visual effects boggle the mind. The reason I'm asking this, is that I have some DV footage that looks fantastic composited over a light colored background. But I also want to film a shot of myself in an X-wing cockpit, with a starfield background. However, in my tests, the DV footage that looks fanatastic, looks TERRIBLE against a black starfield. I don't know what gives.
  18. Shawn PTH Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 4
    Again Pixel remember that the DVMatte Plugin is part of the composite tool kit which as we have said several times before will teach you many methods and great techniques to get what you want out of the key and the composite.
  19. PixelMagic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 5
    I know Shawn, but I just can't front that kind of cash. That's way too expensive for my budget.
  20. borjis fett Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 1999
    star 3

    What i like about it is it's speed and it's price and how well it works.

    those were my 3 reasons to buy it. :)

  21. Obi-Timbo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 1
    I think one of the reasons the dvMatte keyer is getting a lot of good results/praise is that many of use are working with dv compressed footage, and well dvMatte is extremely good at keying this type of footage. As you are creating your key, DvMatte cleans up the footage with a built in blurring algorithm that works really well. But having knowledge of the other keyers and how to work with them can only benifit your composites.

    Tim
  22. Shawn PTH Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 4
    Well christmas isnt tooo far off Pixel, just arrange for an early gift from your genetic providers.
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