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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Easier way to destroy the Jedi

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by -HD-YaebGinn, Feb 9, 2006.

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  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Uh, he's Darth Sidious. He controlled both sides. Ergo, he created the war.

    Who do you think convinced Valorum it was a good idea? Palpatine.

    The taxation laws would affect everyone of the Separatist Council leadership. Such taxation laws would affect the monpolies that the Trade Federation, the Intergalactic Banking Clan, The Corporate Alliance, the Commerace Guild and the Techno Union had. The Senate also made plans to prevent them from having their own private armies, which greatly angered them. All five companies were allied together in the Senate and when the Senate was going to take power from them, with the new laws, they rebelled. The Trade Federation was manipulated by Palpatine into invading Naboo, who knew full well that it would elicit the correct response. The Trade Federation would be seen as the villians in the eyes of the Senate, which would make it easier to get things going. Once he got elected, Palpatine made sure that they never went to prision. This would cause many systems to break away. Others had no choice in leaving, as they were all connected and controlled by the Separatist Council. The 10,000 who joined during the Clone Wars did so as Dooku predicted that the Jedi and the Republic would move against them, thus proving that the Republic was too corrupt. But this corruption here was the by-product of the Sith.

    Basically, Lucas said that the Sith created every event and manipulated everyone. The full details can be found http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/The_Clone_Wars

    Except this politician is the worst. He's a monster who will rule and enslave the galaxy.

    An army created by Palpatine, because he also created a Droid Army. Palpatine wanted the Clone Army to fight a fictional war and to kill the Jedi with, when the time came. To replace the Jedi, since there cannot be an army of Sith or Dark Jedi.

    Again, the Sith control the Separatists. The Sith control the Republic. Everyone's being manipulated by the Sith.

     
  2. RebelScum77

    RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2003
    1. The people know that Count Dooku led the Separtists, Palpatine tells them he is a Jedi leading the war on behalf of the Jedi. They find out that a Jedi ordered clones 10 years before anyone even heard of the war. They see Palpatine get attacked by Jedi with no legal warrant. Proof enough for you? http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dictatorship that is the definition of dictatorship. Doesnt say anything about it being negative. In a perfect world, there would be a dictatorship. It is only because man is corruptable that we dont have one. In a Republic, little gets done, and when it does get done, there is lots of squabbling. But it is the surest way to get things done in a fair manner.

    Dooku left the Order, I'm sure that is somewhere recorded and not a secret, since no one knew he was a Sith until much later. A Jedi did order the Clones, but like you said, the rest of the Jedi didn't find out about it for 10 years. By then Palpatine was in total control of the army. The Jedi were forced to use them because of the war Palpatine started on the Seperatist side. Who saw Palpatine get attacked by the Jedi? All they have is Palpatine's word. In a perfect world NO ONE would be corrupt and the government would work just as well with a dictatorship, a democracy, socialism, whatever. But this is far from a perfect world, and using that argument is pointless. A dictatorship will NEVER be better in a real society, whether on Earth or in Star Wars.


    2. Not all of them, but more than 1, yea. And even 1 the jedi cannot afford to lose. Criminals. The Jedi have been fighting crime for millenia. They have accumulated some enemies. Once those enemies see the jedi living unprotected on some backwater planet, they would no doubt try and attack.

    Again, you drastically underestimate Jedi strength and ingenuity.

    3. Everyone knows that the word of a politician is never exactly as he says it. So if he says something, the people wonder what is really true and can concoct whatever storythey imagne. If the Jedi say something like that, the people automatically know the other side of it. And once Palpatine shoots it down with his evidence, the people believe Palpatine and turn on the Jedi.

    You're not seeing the other side of this coin. With both the Jedi and Palpatine alive there will be two sides to the same story. Both have about the same amount of "evidence" aganist the other. With the Jedi dead there is NO other side, so why even risk some people believing the Jedi over Palpatine, when everyone could HAVE to believe Palpatine because the Jedi are dead?

    4. We know by what we see in the films. They sit back and relax for 20 years. And 2 Jedi cant make a difference? Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan made a huge impact on the way the galaxy turned out didnt they? Even if you dsont count them single-handedly turning the tide of the battle on Naboo.

    You're forgetting the point of the films. Obi-Wan and Yoda know they have to wait, that's their only chance of changing things around, they have to wait for Luke and Leia to grow up, and for the Force to guide them.

    5. Why not? Because it proves you wrong?

    No, because it's a poor analogy with factors that are much too different.

    7. A Jedi ordered clones 10 years before the war outbroke and a Jedi lead the seperatists. Proof enough?

    There is no proof that a Jedi ordered the Clones, besides Palpatine's word. And Dooku is not a Jedi, that was never a secret. He left the Order to lead the Seperatists, that would be common knowledge.
     
  3. Droid

    Droid Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2000
    Picture this: When Mace and his team enter Palpatine's office Palpatine responds to "You're under arrest" with "You can't arrest me, I'm cutting off your funding......". Is there a snowball's chance in hell that Mace will retreat from the office never to be heard from again? That's what it would take to get the same results from killing as from cutting off funding.
     
  4. Darth_BamBam

    Darth_BamBam Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2005
    No way. If their funding had been cut, they would have just turned into the A-Team. With Yoda as Hanable, and Mace could be B.A. No one knew where the A-Team got all their funding for the cool guns, ammo, propane, and gasoline, but that didn't stop them from stopping scum all over the world while still hiding from the government.

    [face_thinking] Think about it, Hanable was an actor, but he never actually finished a role thereby never getting paid, as he was always taken off set to help someone in an emergency. Face always had his sugar-mama's but he spent all his money on corvettes, clothes, and wine. And as far as we can tell B.A. and Murdoc were unemployed. Then you have the people they helped who never had any money, which was have the reason they called the A-Team in the first place. :D
     
  5. -HD-YaebGinn

    -HD-YaebGinn Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2005
    1. Of course people knew he was once a Jedi. How Palpatine manuevers it is to say that he actually never left the Order, he was secretly still in the Order maniuplating the war. So the Jedi say. But it's their word againt Palpatine's proof. I believe you mentioned recordings of the event in an earlier post. Amen, but if the people can be duped to believe that a dictatorship is better, as Palpatine did, and that he is the one for the job, than it is a cakewalk from there.

    2. Granted, not that many Jedi would die from just that, more would die from Order 66, but you overestimate them.

    3. Palpatine has evidence. The Jedi just have their word. If they only have Palpatine's side, there is an unkown side which starts to rumor out. With Palps and the Jedi side, there is no rumor, just 2 concrete sides.

    4. Then whos to say the 1000+ Jedi wouldnt do the same?

    5. It what ways? It seems plenty apt to me. Maybe changing Muslim extremist for something older and less heard of, but the basic point is still the same. People make crazy accusations about politicians and they are rarely true, what makes you think the Jedi could get away with it?

    7. The Kaminoans records. People know he left the Order, but what Palps is saying is that he never really left, it was just a plot hatched by the Jedi to manuver the war from 2 sides. As you said yoursefl, the Jedi played a pivotal role in the Clone Wars.

    8. And if he just legally cut their funding and kissedt hem goodbye, what could they do without looking like the bad guys? Write out how you would lead the jedi if your funding got cut and you were kicked out of the republic.

    LOl, Jedi A-Team. I like it. (the A-team got their money by charging a crapload for their services) I would very much like to see a doctored picture of a star wars a-team. Mace's posse perhaps? I have one of the blues brothers being han and luke on the death star as my wallpaper.
     
  6. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    There's just one problem....everyone in the galaxy knows that Dooku is a Sith Lord and the Sith are sworn enemies of the Jedi so Palpatine won't be able to frame the Jedi for Dooku's actions.

    A bunch of low-life criminals don't stand a chance against the Jedi and they know it. It would be suicide for them to attack a group of superpowered monks with laser swords.

    The Jedi have Anakin's testimony, the Seperatists' testimony, and 3 dead Jedi to prove to the Senate that Palpatine is guilty of war crimes while all Palpatine has is his disfigured face. The Jedi outnumber Palpatine in the evidence department and he knows this which is why he had to kill off the entire Jedi Order simply by "initiating Order 66".

    The 1000+ Jedi don't have the benefit of learning from their mistakes nor do they have any opportunity to discover that Palpatine is a Sith Lord like Obi-wan and Yoda do which is why they're all dead.

    They have witnesses going from Anakin Skywalker to the Seperatists who have come into contact with Darth Sidious. Palpatine has confessed to Anakin that he's a Sith Lord and the Seperatists have worked for Sidious so with that and plus, having Obi-wan be told by Dooku about Sidious controlling the Republic, the Jedi have gaurantee that they will expose Palpatine for the phoney that he is.

    That plan will backfire because the people will know that the Jedi who ordered the clone armies(Sifo-Dyas) was killed by Dooku and again, it's common knowledge that Dooku is a Sith so Palpatine won't be able to incriminate the Jedi with this plot.

    Simple, the Jedi will leave Coruscant so that when the Senate learns of their departure, they'll see that Palpatine has abused his power and disbanded the Jedi Order without their approval which will force them to have Palps removed from office. If Palps refuses and orders the clone army to attack the Senators, the Jedi will spring into action and take out both PalpSidious and the Clone army.
     
  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Just cause something seems simplier doesn't mean it's the best way. Palpatine's way worked. He got the populace to turn on the Jedi and he killed him. Cutting off funding's not good enough. He relied on his own cunning and skill.
     
  8. DS615

    DS615 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Rome.

    Chile under Pinochet, or Yugoslavia under Tito.

    Ancient China, Greece, England, Spain, France, Egypt, ad nauseum.



     
  9. RebelScum77

    RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Rome was founded a Republic. As an Empire it had just as many ups as downs. There were absolutely atrocious leaders, and who suffered? The people. A dictatorial Empire is ultimately why Rome fell.

    Ancient Greece had citystates, this is a far cry from a Galatic Empire, with all the technology, billions of people, and politics invovled. All those Ancient examples are weak comparisons.

    England has a monarchy NOT a dictatorship, there's a big difference. And now the monarchy is more ceremonial, there is still a parliment which makes policy. Palpatine's Senate was a joke, and ultimately disbanded.
     
  10. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Why are the Jedi a bunch of glorified bureucrats anyway? That in and of itself was a stupid idea. And it also is illogical. The Jedi are basically monks, so inherently one would think they would not work for politicians because they would have to succumb to the whim of political authority over spiritual (The Force). They could be guardians of peace operating on their own. Just the idea that they take their orders from a Chancellor makes them super weak. Not to mention it also sets them up to be corrupt (as they were for the entire PT since they helped Palpatine asssume his power illegally).
     
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