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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Economics in SW?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Dr. Steve Brule, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Although I suspect I know the answer already, are there any works that discuss how the economy of the GFFA works? Not necessarily discussions on economic philosophies (which I'm sure have never been set down) but something that goes a bit more in-depth than simply "taxing trade routes is controversial and big companies joined the Separatists".
     
  2. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    It's been awhile since I've read it but James Luceno's Cloak of Deception seemed to delve more into the political side of things.
     
  3. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    "Galaxywide NewsNets" in the Star Wars Adventure Journal covered a fair amount of economic news. For instance, one of my favorite ongoing NewsNet threads covered a raw materials shortage and the ramifications it had on galactic economics and politics. I summarized the relevant information in a Wookieepedia article, "Rawmat shortage of 1–2 ABY."
     
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Recall the big megacorporations Kuat Drive Yards, the IGBC and so forth-I imagine their economic influence on galactic affairs is immense
     
  5. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    The Episode I era galactic economy seemed kind of like modern Japan, a half dozen megacorporate giants that totally dominate the economy. And/or America in the robber baron age.
     
  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    You recall in the essential atlas in the IU beginning of the book-they are basically a shipping company finding people to sell and buy things to and from.

    I imagine lots of interstellar trade

    Core-exports luxury items, medical equipment, entertainment products, advanced communications and military grade tech.

    Mid and inner rim-food stuffs, processed materials, raw materials, tourism.

    Outer rim-slaves(both the labor and sex variety), droids(bad models) raw materials, exotic wildlife, and so on

    Core imports-raw materials, food stuffs, some tech, tourism, spice

    Mid and inner rim-advanced tech, luxury goods, manufacturing equipment and so on

    Outer rim-medical and military tech, communications tech, spice, government investment and so on(Legacy Volume 2

    Deep core-maybe advanced navigational tech, scientific equipment, clones, imports-anything they can't get

    Unknown regions and wild space-not as integrated into galactic economy, Chiss-colonies support Csilla and Csilla sustains colonies

    Hurt space-exports-spice, weapons, influence and so on, imports-blasters, desperate smugglers(and spice addicts) also probably core tech and resources

    Hapans-probably self sufficient, still probably import items they can't produce in the consortium, exports-beautiful women, luxury items, military tech and so forth

    Seem like a good summary so far?
     
  7. bellatroll

    bellatroll Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2013
    The economics of the Clone Wars series are certainly complete garbage.

    The whole episode where the republic is struggling to secure loans from the banking clan I was going like "what exactly does the banking clan have which the republic doesn't?"

    A vast galactic state like the republic wouldn't need to secure loans. They would just print cash and then issue bonds or expand bank reserves when they feel they need to control excess liquidity. They could also force the banks to just include the republic's war loans in their portfolios. Or if none of that works, they would ration important materials (which they probably would regardless). The idea that a vast galactic hyper-state with fantastic technologies wouldn't have figured out this elementary stuff is pretty outlandish.

    It's also suggested that the republic's credits are somehow worthless in places. Again, the republic controls most of the galaxy; so I'm pretty sure virtually every business doing interstellar trade would have to pay republic taxes with republic credits. This demand would give value to credits everywhere in the galaxy.
     
  8. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 5, 2015
    If they had replicators like Star Trek, the economy would be obsolete, but that would ruin the story.
     
  9. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Well yeah the clone wars sucks period though
     
  10. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    It isn't very clear whether the Republic currency is even fiat or not. In some instances, it clearly is, but in others we are referred to the InterGalactic Banking Clan which on Muunilinst has resources to back any currency in the Galaxy. This implies that its based on resources. So which is it?
     
  11. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    In Betrayal isn't there reference as well to a galactic stock exchange-it's certainly something that needs to be clarified
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    You need to go back to a mercantilist era for it to make sense. In that, there's no modern analogue for companies like the British or Dutch East India Companies but those kinds of companies, conceptually and practically, fit Star Wars incredibly well.

    Imaging that you could open a portfolio in exchange traded funded funds or hanava fruit futures feels like something that might have popped up in the tail end of the Legends era, cementing the EU's demise IMO. But, having a heavily armed merchant vessel trading silks and spices? An easy fit.
     
  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Ender's right. SW is essentially using an arbitrary mash-up of futuristic and past economic principles. Credits are both electronic currency and also hard specie. Credits are backed by the IGBC instead of floating, but that value is also dependent on what local economies are willing to pay for them.

    Also, as far as new canon, "the Republic doesn't exist out here" is basically literal now: Tatooine and much of the Outer Rim is outside the Galactic Republic.

    As far as Brule's original question, I've never actually read it since I only just read the Daleys, but I imagine the Corporate Sector SB has gotta have something about commerce, if not strictly economics.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  14. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Well, Ender's actually only partially right: because it's such a mish-mash, a mercantilist system is only a partially accurate analogue too - though going historical is usually more accurate than going modern in SW. The real takeaway is that this is one area where it's perhaps better not to try and look too closely.
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Yes, agreed. ^

    Just don't assume there's a Goldman Sachs, or libertarians who believe in the Gold Standard, or the capacity to short stocks or set up a GSL on your CFDs.
     
  16. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The information on economic life in the GFFA isn't scanty or wanting per se-it's just not detailed or really focused on for its own purpose.

    What do you expect really? Star Wars is space opera-really with the metaphysical elements more Science/Space fantasy. People can feel free to discuss and speculate over this but honestly like a previous poster said its not something worth getting upset about
     
  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    And, also, most authors - like most journalists - don't understand economics well enough to describe it...
     
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  18. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Yeah, they're bad enough when they try to take on politics, let alone economics.
     
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  19. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    Mercantilism is the best bet I'd say, yes. You have to consider that Star Wars is happening in a vast Galaxy, not taking place on Earth with Earth economics. While in Earth nation-states don't individually have resources, in Star Wars a couple of planets could easily band up and isolate themselves, remaining self-sufficient. The people in Star Wars, overtime, I think care more about hard resources and government stability both backing currency as GrandAdmiralJello said. People aren't going to oggle in amazement at Kuat, Rendili, Sienar, Incom and Corellia's stock trades, but they will trust in their starship monopoly and the capabilities of their shipyards.
     
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  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Yeah precisely-I doubt most of the Galaxy knows or cares about Kuati Drive Yard's performance on Coruscant's stock exchange they do care about Kuat producing good ships though so yeah
     
  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    They had joint stock companies in the age of mercantilism too. Markets themselves aren't the opposite of mercantilism: far from it.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  22. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 7, 2000
    To understand that you have to know, that things like the IGBC or the Trade Federation or not only business-corporations, but also political bodies (same is true for KuatDriveYards or TaggeCo). In the case of the IGBC you have an organisation, that also acts as Fed or the Bank of England or the EZB, only even more powerful. So if the Republic would do what you are suggesting, everybody would quickly realize the money has no value anymore. Which would f..k over the economy and lead to all kinds of black markets and replacement-currencies.

    Less than a decade has passed in our world when the taxpayers had to save the banks, because they had speculated one to many times. Did we let them drown as the pure theory of the free market demands? Or did we save them, because they were "to big to fail"?

    The CIS of the Prequel-trilogy certainly suggests, that during the final days of the Galactic Republic the megacorporations had more power and influence if not over the Galactic Republic, but certainly over most of its member-states than any corporation in earth's history (perhaps with the exception of the East India Company and the United Fruit Company).

    You can also go back to the times of King Philip of France and the KnightTemplars or Emperor Maximilian of Habsburg and Jacob Fugger, where the politicos had to kow-tow to the money-lenders (until Philip conspired with the Pope to get rid of his creditors).
     
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  23. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 26, 2013
    The problem is the IGBC isn't on a fiat currency is like the US dollar. In Legends, we clearly know that the IGBC is backed by the resources of Muunilinst, Mygeeto and all their other words. We don't know if that's still the case in Disney Canon, but going by Legends all you have to do to bring the IGBC into fold is annex Muunilinst, nationalize the IGBC and put people in charge of it that would toe the line.
     
  24. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Don't forget about Dole & his friends! They overthrown a sovereign kingdom, Hawaii!
     
  25. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Wait what hoes this impact the thread exactly?