Full Series Eeth Koth or Agen Kolar

I agree. They don't look so drastically different that they should have been made into totally new characters IMHO. If they were that insistent that they be new characters they should have just came up with two totally new characters that looked nothing like these two. Let the EU come up with an explanation or back story that explained what happened to Koth and Adi Gallia. I personally prefer the earlier look of both of them and wish they had not included them at all if recasting was an issue. The whole notion that two new Jedi show up that look almost exactly like a couple of dead Jedi is just totally stupid to me and it bothers me much less that they look slightly different from movie to move that it does that they are now different people entirely. Retcon Kolar and Stass Allie away please.

 

I prefer the TPM incarnations of both Adi and Koth too, they were much more striking in appearance and the makeup seemed a little more refined.

[Gallias headpiece went up for sale recently on the prop store, half tempted to see if it's still available and stick a deposit down just so I can throw my claim in to been the 4th Adi Gallia.... a slightly more bearded depiction but if the hat fits ;p]

 

Got a link to that?

 

Sadly it looks like it's gone but Even Piells top knots there!

http://www.propstore.com/products.htm?keyword=the%20phantom%20menace

They had a stack of TPM items not too long ago, double the amount of gorgs last time I looked.


edit- just checked the description of that item - Even Piell was a girl- Looking at his scenes now he does seem a bit effeminate so while we're on the subject I propose a retcon to take this into account for future incarnations of the character

another edit

although the items gone , after a bit of googling I was directed back here - a board member managed to save the pics before it went
http://boards.theforce.net/costuming_and_props/b10019/30382628/p1/

 

Thanks...I was just about to come here and post that I found that same thread.

I like to save stuff like that myself.

 

Damn it what's wrong with Eeth Koth and Agen Kolar being two different zabrakguys?! just because they have horns and long hair they should be same guy is that it? ok let's retcon that Mace Windu is General Kota both are human jedi and skincolor don't seem to matter Agen Kolar is much more darker skinned than Eeth Koth... even though TCW Eeth is quite tanned- well he spend a holiday on Kothlis- naturally
If Agen Kolar will be in this series (as i hope) i wish they would make him very different character and having different face and voice and different accent so no one would confuse them anymore- then they should show them together and kill off Eeth Koth and then show Agen Kolar later..... I don't want retcon in this matter there is not too much jedi or anything that would require such change..... so let Kolar and Koth to be 2 different guys from the same culture... even though Eeth is born on Nar Shaddaa.... Agen would be Zabrak with traditional iridonian look- unlike dathomiri zabraks like Maul.....


- i do understand the Adi Gallia problem better because Stass Allie looks more Adi than herself well for me there is still 4 jedi and i like idea of Adi being killed by Grievous let's hope same happens for Eeth Koth he wasn't that interesting that i was actually very disappointed he survived from Grievous Intrigue since he supposedly died in the script..... and about Adi and Allie there is no reason why two cousins wouldn't look same (same genes) and wouldn't be both jedi (Force runs strong in their family) or have same hairstyle (cultural tradition) Also would be interesting to see their relationship are they more closer than average jedi and is older Adi rolemodel for younger Stass etc. wanna see them both with different personality and voice no retcons in this makes jedi order look too small and no important jedi would die during the war- well except Oppo....

just because you cannot see the difference there is no reason to steamroll over canon and retcon them to be one and same

Pablo-Jill and Coleman Kcaj is similar issue but well both are hardly seen so i don't think anyone really cares this much.... still there is plenty of humans among jedi so why not many ongrees- for humans they just look all the same

 

^
I still say the whole "they are now two totally different people" thing is dumb. Also your statement that it could be compared to doing a retcon on Mace is a really stupid argument. I think it is obvious to anyone that is not steeped in the EU that these two were supposed to be the same Jedi?.I mean not only do the dress exactly alike I believe they even have the exact same saber hilt as their predecessors. I also disagree that Stass Allie looks better than Adi Gallia.

Bobba Fett's costume changed between Empire and Jedi, does that mean he should be a different guy in both movies also? It is just stupid and you won't change this nerd's mind about that.

 

I agree with you. Since you've got George Lucas on your side, there is a small chance they will be retconned.

 

So far as I can tell no real good pictures of Agen Kolar exist from the production of AOTC. I think he has the exact same tattoos in AOTC as Eeth did in TPM, but I can't tell. He is seen at the beginning of the Geonosis battle, but whereas in TPM Eeth had a light tan complexion which offered greater contrast with the black tattoos, Agen's complexion is much darker and I really can't make out the tattoo pattern on screen in AOTC or ROTS. There is however a good picture of Agen Kolar from behind the scenes of ROTS.

Eeth Koth

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/0/0e/Eeth_koth1.jpg]

Agen Kolar (AOTC) [its too vague for me to say with 100% confidence, but I think I can barely make out some of the tattoo pattern, and it seems more like Eeth's in TPM than it does Agen's from ROTS]

[image=http://starwars.com/databank/character/agenkolar/img/eu_bg.jpg]

Agen Kolar (ROTS)

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/6/6f/AgenKolarHeadshotOP1.jpg]

The tattoos of Agen are far less elaborate, are different in arrangement, and consist of dots rather than solid lines. What was the behind the scenes factor(s) that affected that decision? I have no idea. AFAIK Agen Kolar was called Eeth Koth behind the scenes throughout the production of all three movies, but come ROTS the makeup differed blatantly.

I don't know if by that time he had come to be embraced as a different character by the crew, or if maybe they simplified the tattoos since they weren't really going to show up on screen anyway (with his dark skin and lack of any extreme close up of his face, I wouldn't even know that Agen had tattoos if not for production photos).

If my father were killed and my mother started dating some guy that had the same facial hair, same body type, same hair cut, same eye color, worked at the same place, and wore the exact same clothes as my dad, but had a different cheek and jaw structure I'd think something was up. Even if I accepted that this new guy was not my father, I wouldn't be able to get past the blatant similarities, and I'd be curious as to why there is such a likeness in appearance that is too similar to be coincidental.

As CGI-Bobafent commented, changes occur in movies all of the time. The guy playing Dumbledore in Harry Potter got changed due to the death of the original actor, but in universe nobody acknowledges the change in the character's appearance, and the audience is meant to accept the character as being the same, even with the change of actor. Now in AOTC, the actor that played Eeth Koth was not available to reprise his role due to different shooting locations, so a different actor was picked to play what is obviously intended to be the exact same character (or at least originally) and as with the case with Dumbledore I don't think the audience was ever meant to really object to the idea that this character - especially being a background character with no speaking lines - was any different from the character in TPM.

There's a strange phenomenon among Star Wars fans in general to be fascinated by such minor characters. I remember after AOTC came out and people were discussing the Jedi in the arena battle there was a division among those that would say that that was clearly Eeth Koth, and others that objected they look nothing alike. Behind the scenes references to the character as Eeth Koth both in the original CW cartoon and during the production of the films make it obvious to me that the only reason the character of Agen Kolar exists is due to the obsessions of fans. Kit Fisto also looks pretty different between ROTS and AOTC due to different actors, but that never character never got split into two different characters due to that change in appearance. If there had been the same degree of incessant complaining about Kit Fisto, he could very well have been. And Stass Allie's appearance in ROTS differs just as much from her appearance in AOTC as her AOTC appearance does from Adi's in TPM. Yet when a new actor was chosen in AOTC a new character resulted. When a new actress was chosen in ROTS, no new

 

I remember an interview I read with the girl who played Gallias replacement in AOTC, she got the part as I recall purely on the basis that she fit the headpiece from TPM and that during action and council scenes she'd pass as the same character.
Although she didn't shoot the death scene she did shoot some council scenes for ROTS too so technically she changed appearance within the space of the same film [she was pretty peeved about that] never mind the 10 years between TPM and Aotc.

edit- after a bit of a google found the interview http://thinwhiteduke76interviews.blogspot.com/2007/08/lily-nyamwasa-interview.html

This whole debate has actually reminded me of the rough cut of the deleted raid on the federation control ship from AOTC , has anyone here seen that? I've just rewatched it and theirs a few extra shots of Kolar/koth and Gallia/ali in there if anyones interested.

 

where is that conclusion from i said Adi Gallia looks different than Stass Allie- but i meant that Rots Allie looks more like Gallia didn't say that she would look any "better" both are pretty ladies with pretty bizarre headdresses but Adi is probably older since she is master in TPM already... also looks like sabers aren't totally different judging by the pics i've seen from those two
and Boba may have many different armors painted with same colors- jango's original helmet blew up

 

why is it dumb?- world is filled with real people that are look-a-likes and some cultures tend to have traditional haircuts and stuff- it's usually said all asians look in the eyes of europeans etc.
... and now with TCW showing us Darth Maul's brotherhood all having nearly identical tattoos so even if Eeth and Agen have similar tattoos that don't prove they are one and same they are maybe from the same tribe or something.... why they should be one and same? Because you cannot see the difference or because you don't like the idea of two jedi being look-a-likes? Zabraks are fairly rare so their haircut and tattoos may be just part of the traditional iridonian-look and actually Eeth and Agen don't share same face at all- two totally different guys with similar horns and hair and their outfit is standard jedi-look nothing that only they would use.....

 

very odd example but very bad also- jedi are not known to their diverse fashion (explains same clothes) bodytype is also odd since there is two actors who really have similar bodytype and their species explains the horns and haircut (all nightbrothers have same hornpatterns and tattoos so why not other zabrak tribes/subspecies?) - and eyecolor is possibly just irrelevant coincidence... and you know i've seen many times woman dating many different guys with similar facial hair, eye color, body type and maybe even same work- my aunt for example have had many boyfriends who were different guys but looked all same to me also keep in mind that some families may have genetics that cause high midichloriancount so Eeth Koth and Agen Kolar may be related explaining the similarity and force-sensitivity therefore erasing the problem of them being both jedi AND looking the same which would be odd coincidence.....

Still i cannot picture Eeth Koth from TPM and TCW to be Agen Kolar from Rots- old CW however has Eeth Koth to me- mistakingly referred as Kolar since that guys is Koth not Kolar .... well maybe it's just me- i can see Adi being Stass but not Koth being Kolar- they just have different style and feel in them- Koth is older more wise than powerful and Kolar seems like a Windu-type badass jedi to me- one who very eagerly uses saber to solve those conflicts that he cannot negotiate away... even though Kolar's embarassingly quick death in hands of Sidious proves he was not very masterful duelist.... still it may be that he was just surprised of Sidious' quick attack that he stunned in fear and was unable to show his true skills- Eeth Koth however seems to be very average jedi in skills of fighting and would have been killed by Grievous easily if only GG wouldn't have been overconfident......

So as Windu i wouldn't take a guy who didn't match for GG to arrest the sith lord- i would take the best duelists available

 

I think TaradosGon pretty much sums my thoughts up on this very well. It is dumb because it is totally obvious that they were meant to be the same characters and there is evidence to support this from the actors themselves and the scripts. I have no issue with there being Jedi out there named Agen Kolar and Stass Allie and that they might look like a couple other Jedi but they did not appear in the films as far as I am concerned. I'm all for there being more Jedi but I'd rather they not just be cookie cutter look a likes.

 

Anakin, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan, and countless background extra Jedi are human, yet really none of them wear the same thing. The Jedi might not be vain experts of fashion, but they have a seemingly infinite variety of simply robes.

Yaddle and Yoda are the same species, and while they dress more similarly to each other, they do not dress identically. Shaak Ti and Ahsoka are very different in style.

Out of the 10,000 Jedi in the Jedi Order, for 2/12 on the council to die only to be replaced only by different people that so obviously bear resemblance is just awkward. Its just creepy and makes the Jedi council look like they might have some issues letting Koth and Adi go. It's like they decided to go about things so that they could pretend they had never died. "Hey Agen, you're going to be our new Eeth."

 

^
LOL...its like people that go get a new dog that looks just like their old one after it dies. "That last one was good so gimme another one of those."

 

Kolar : "Master Yoda , do I have to wear Eeths Robes....they're still.... warm"

Yoda : " ...and expect me to buy new ones do you?"

Kolar : " But isn't it a bit creepy me sitting in his chair, wearing his clothes, sleeping in his bed ?"

Yoda : "Tax reasons , still claiming his benefits we are "

Kolar : "Doesn't sound like the Jedi w...hey wait is that a tattoo kit!?!"

Windu : "Just put the m***** ******* robes on Horn Boy"

 

I wish I had a dime for every time I have heard that in my life. LOL.

I can picture the look on General Grievous?s face. ?Wait! didn?t I already kill you??

 

that's out-of universe point of view and from that point of view sw is just fiction- many other things in it make no sense either i don't understand why this should..... original scripts have other later changed elements Luke is not Starkiller, girl or midget because he was originally meant to be- so were these characters changed to be different ones so changing them back to be one and same is too late now- at least for Eeth Koth and Agen Kolar since these are now obviously two very similar characters but not the same guy due to radical change of the facial features and skincolor... there is more confusion with Adi when Stass Allie's own appearance changes radically but they have different wardrobes- adi has no white undershirt like Stass Allie ....

 

well do you have good pictures to prove this claim (they have identical robes) for me their robes don't look identical and it seems to me that many background jedi in arena do wear identical robes.... anyway TCW proves that many jedi do wear identically like the roonan killed by the Opress wears like Fisto and his padawan like Bolla Ropal- colors differ but so seems to differ colors of undershirts used by Koth and Kolar..... and then for example Finn Eertay uses robes/dress similar to Luminara .... ok maybe they are just re-used charactermodels but series is canon so there is other look-alikes in jedirobes canonically


oh and interesting thing is that in the netherworld of the Force there is special robe type used by the ghosts as seen in Rotj that's identical to Ben's tatooinerobes

yeah pity Shaak would look good in tubetop

 

Well as far as i am concerned there is 4 jedi and since official canon supports my theory i'm right and you're wrong from canonical point of view .... still i have similar issue with Gilramos Libkath myself i cannot see why neimoidian in AOTC should be Haako. he don't sound like him, look like him or wear like him (and he is apparently senator, representative of TF in CIS-senate? ).... interestingly enough i'm not canonically completely wrong in that since databank supports my theory saying that Rune appears only in TPM and ROTS so guy in AOTC may be Gilramos Libkath who looks and wears like "fake-haako" from AOTC or then there is two look-alikes and two namesakes- Rune Haako from ep1 and 3 and another neimoidian named Rune Haako from ep2 who looks just like Gilramos Libkath from Boba Fett-novels that's even more ridiculous than Agen/Eeth issue especially when Lott Dod is messed up with Haako and Libkath in credits of AOTC


Back to Eeth/Agen and Adi/Stass If they will be retconned to be just two jedi i'm ok with it- it's not that big deal- but how did TPM Eeth's skin darken so much is that natural for Zabraks that their skincolor changes..... maybe.... but easier retcon would be to see them both in TCW since there already is ridiculously many re-used models... also wouldn't change canon that much Adi would still be killed by GG and Stass by Neyo and Eeth Koth's fate would be open for TCW to solve without eu-mess

 

Where in AOTC does it show that Eeth Koth dies? I tried looking for it and could not find it.

I think it's obvious that Gallia and Allie are one and the same, now. They took Gallia's looks and merged it with Allie's height and stature.

 

Apparently he was on the gunship that is shot down and seen by Windu, Yoda and Ki-Adi-Mundi shortly after leaving the arena.

 

Really? The one that got blown to crap? I couldn't even tell who was on that. How could anyone?

 

I'd be VERY interested in seeing that! :-D