Lit Eleven-ThirtyEight and stuff

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Jul 8, 2013.

?

Well?

I don't care 15 vote(s) 17.2%
Hm, neat 37 vote(s) 42.5%
OMG COOPER IS MY HERO 35 vote(s) 40.2%
  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I still have a soft spot for Queen of the Empire, as the only GoVD book I read a lot more than once (since it was the only one to be found at the library at the time.

    When I finally found the rest, at a youth club, and read them all (once) they didn't really live up to that one.
  2. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I liked all of them way back when and want to do a read through now but don't have Prophets of the Dark Side.
  3. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    star 4
    I, Jedi was awful and single-handedly decided that I would never read a Stackpole book ever again. Also I don't care about Corran Horn's pants-feelings for Tavira and feeling guilty about it because ~Mirax~
  4. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Trust me, that's nostalgia talking. If anything, Queen of the Empire is worse than the books preceding it :p
  5. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Han always needed to be a general. The issue is his maturation and growth -- it's thematically crucial that he ascend to a role of power and responsibility comparable with Leia and Luke. Whether or not his ROTJ assignment particularly merited the promotion -- who cares. Han had to be a general. Han has to grow and accept responsibility and develop as a character the same way Luke and Leia do. It's much more appropriate than being a businessman because Han isn't a businessman. Not by nature. Han was engaged in making money as a smuggler, yes, but he was no more a businessman than a long-haul trucker is a businessman. He got into smuggling because he was an independent-natured badass who was great at flying and kicking ass and couldn't do anything else with those talents. He flew stuff from point A to point B, shot people who got in his way, escaped danger, and got drunk once he got his money. The idea of becoming a respectable businessman would kill Han. Sitting around an office figuring out how to buy bolts one cent cheaper would drive him insane. Doing paperwork, checking on his managers, whatever -- it would bore him silly. The thing about the military is that it's a way for Han to mature and grow and take responsibility without getting bored. He focuses on fighting, on doing a job that excites him, and accepts the burdens of growth as the necessary evils of his role. But something that was all paperwork and no fighting -- no way. It doesn't fit him. Han's always been a military man -- he was kicked out of the Imperial military. It suits his inclinations, his character, and it's his way in to maturity.

    Now, after Han completed the process of character growth and maturity, after he became an authority figure, it would be possible to move him out of the military. I'd be interested in seeing a fifty-year-old Han trying his hand in government, or running a shipping business. I still think Han, post-NJO, should have taken over Karrde's information network along with Droma. But he can't get from ROTJ to there without the military to grow him up.

    Yeah, Han is sort of a secret genius. He was valedictorian at Carida for a reason -- he's not inclined to intellectualism, but he has a tremendous intellect. Part of being a good pilot and smuggler is that he can handle astronavigation, he understands engineering, he can speak an insane number of languages and remember a galaxy of information about planets and species and associates and routes and criminal schemes (I mean, actually go out and add up all the things -- the planets, languages, species, people, everything -- that Han knows across all the stories -- he knows EVERYTHING). He plays dim, just like he plays callous, but he's got a first-rate mind and he puts it to extremely practical use.
  6. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    No reason he needs to be a General for that, as he is already an Officer and him taking command of the Strike Team already shows that (just like him coming back in ANH) that he is willing to take responsibility and risk for others.

    An independent one at that, which is pretty much impossible these days @ long haul trucker. ;)

    No more then tying him to a General post and if he is self employed he can still do what he wants, whilst in the military there is no way he could ever do that.

    That is what accounting droids are for. ;)

    Or he does not even get employees but just goes into facilitating.

    Short of becoming Commander James Bond really good luck with that.

    But the post of a General comes with lots and lots of planning, paperwork and very, very little fighting, especially once the New Republic moves from throw together guerrillas to an actual army. Now the job of a front line officer on the other hand would make more sense, though even there unless he just builds his own informal unit or pretty much outright goes privateer like we see with the Lando's Commandos, though even there, it would be almost impossible for him to stay close to Leia.

    Though even in that constellation, Commander; Captain or Colonel would just work way better.

    Now consider how insanely good that would make him as a facilitator of commerce for the New Republic trying to rebuild the galactic economy. ;)
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Nov 29, 2013
  7. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Another of Han's talents I left out: an absurdly good card player. At least, the "absurd" party certainly comes in when he wins enough credits to buy a planet in a single night in The Courtship of Princess Leia.

    I like the observation that Han is pretty much a super genius by Earth standards, but one who's not at all drawn to intellectualism. Even though the average person in the GFFA seems to understand a fairly ridiculous amount of languages (or maybe it's just all the main protagonists we get happen to be linguists), it is true that to catalog the unimaginably vast amount of information he's displayed knowledge of over various stories would require both an insane memory and an insatiable drive for knowledge, even if he only seeks that knowledge for practical purposes. I've never been a big proponent of the idea that Han should have taken over for Talon Karre, but looking at it that way, he seems a natural fit for the job.

    Yes, but I'm sure it's exactly the kind of job that would drive Han to blow his brains out :p Or cauterize his brains. Whatever a blaster does.

    Lovable rogues don't become accountants dammit! :D
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 30, 2013
  8. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Gorefiend: It's a fair point that Han could have started out as Colonel Solo -- and I'd have liked to have seen that -- but it's pretty irrelevant. He'd end up a general anyway because that's what happens. And General Solo is what the EU was given to run with, and then failed to do so.

    It's nice to be able to say that Han could do "anything" if he were a businessmen or just bumming around as a spacer, but the thing is, no, he couldn't. We've seen Han as a spacer, and the freedom to do "anything" means that he ends up doing nothing, because a character with no job and no role doesn't naturally fit into doing anything. Han as a businessman would be even more restricted, because how many businessman plots fit into the Star Wars galaxy? How much has Lando been in the story since he became a big businessman, huh?

    Whereas as a general in fiction, he can play a role in any military conflict, he can tag along with Leia, he can go on missions -- he's got genuine options and naturally fits into Star Wars stories in a way Han-at-loose-ends or Han-as-merchant (or, as you insist on advocating, merchant-diplomat), doesn't. I don't see how the fact that real-life generals have to do a lot of paperwork impacts the fact that in fiction (and in rag-tag, formerly-Rebel militaries), paperwork is deemphasized and fighting is emphasized, or that generals doing more paperwork than fighting somehow justifies putting Han in a position that's all paperwork, in real life and in fiction, and that doesn't lend itself to Star Wars storytelling at all. I mean, what kind of stories are you going to get out of Han "facilitating commerce"? Thirty-five-year-old Han Solo isn't going to sit at a table for eight hours a day trying to get Elomin and Herglics to agree on the duty on greelwood and in which courts disputes over shipping contracts will be heard. Nobody's going to read that story, either.

    General Han Solo conquering a sector from Delvardus, that they'll read.
    Gamiel and Mia Mesharad like this.
  9. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    And a businessman is not an accountant god damn it! :p Just look what he is doing at the start of the Thrawn Trilog with him helping in getting the Republic commerce running it is just about perfect for him.

    Öh each and every one? o_O Like we see with Jabba, the Trade Federation, Han, Lando, Karrde, Booster etc.

    He always was a big businessman in Bantam books as well ;) and he does a perfect job in the NJO and well since LOTF and FOTJ had no real use for any character, why would Lando be any different?

    Really any you want to, whilst with the Military you will always have to explain why he is not with the same unit as last time and why he does not bring the whole army along, we have seen this kind of mess when it comes to trying to make sense of Wedge's military career.

    Yeah just like Lando and Leia in any of their stories were something like this often serves as backdrops for their adventures and really is only that a backdrop

    I would also read the story if it was with General Madine or Cracken ;) Lets be honest as much fun as General Solo is in X-Wing any other General would have done.
  10. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    So Hav's Generals article just had a crazy-ass day for Facebook referrals, and I can't figure out why. Anyone happen to see anything?
  11. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    star 6
  12. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I blame Cyber Monday .
  13. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    It got linked from a facebook page that gets a considerable amount of traffic.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-wa...istent-with-Expanded-Universe/622285481118739

    Also someone mentioned that Havac clearly hasn't read much of the EU in the comments :p The joy of the greater internet.
  14. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    A-ha! Well, that's a load off my mind. @Hav, feel free to send Jello in there to mix it up on your behalf. :p
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Dec 2, 2013
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
  16. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
  17. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    IIRC, Jason nixed that Solo was valedictorian, although I can't find the source now.
  18. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    I think he said he wasn't fond of it, but I can't think of any source that could have undone that fact.
  19. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Well, I searched everywhere and can't find the reference.

    I think it was in response to my feedback for the EGTW manuscript, as I did point out the Fel/Solo graduation thing. The finished book didn't include it, but the texts for both Fel and Solo don't mention anything against it, either.
  20. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  22. jasonfry VIP

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    This is correct. I'm not a fan of Han being valedictorian for a number of reasons, chiefly that I think it's a poor fit with the character and makes him special instead of a run-of-the-mill freighter bum who happens to be in the bar when Obi-Wan needs a ship. The latter to me is a lot more interesting than Han standing out for one reason or another from his past.

    So I ignored it. But I didn't try to overrule it. With no contradiction to referee, it would have just been a personal thing and therefore IMHO dirty pool.
  23. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    @jasonfry have you been in contact with the new story group, led by Pablo Hidalgo?
  24. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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  25. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    star 6
    Lots of people here have a Rogue Planet fetish, right? Hav does too.
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