Lit Eleven-ThirtyEight and stuff

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Jul 8, 2013.

?

Well?

I don't care 15 vote(s) 17.0%
Hm, neat 38 vote(s) 43.2%
OMG COOPER IS MY HERO 35 vote(s) 39.8%
  1. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
  2. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Essentially a prequel trilogy to the Thrawn trilogy, fleshing out the state of the Empire in the years before ANH. I personally really like the Zahniverse and Thrawn, and like the idea of Zahn writing about the Empire at its height. It would also supposedly involve Mara and Vader having to work together, which has the potential to be disastrous given his track record, but if he could restrain himself it could potentially be interesting.
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  3. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    That's easy, what happened is that they put him in charge. SbS worked because it was part of a larger story outlined mostly by somebody else. It's easily Denning's best book, but most of his hallmarks are clearly on display: graphic violence, gruesome descriptions of torture and mutilation, convoluted and confusing action scenes, established characters killed off like they're no one and mean nothing, Luke being a terrible hero.

    The story is a lot more balanced between Jedi and non-Jedi than his later books, and I don't remember any weird Han-and-Leia sex stuff, but that's probably because there was so much going on there wasn't time for it, and the general NJO's balanced cast required multiple Forceless plotlines. But despite its shortcomings (including just not being that well-written in general imo), SbS succeeds for two reasons. The first is the strength of the story it was required to tell: it's the darkest point in the NJO, where everything changes and nothing can ever go back to how it was before. The second is how Denning, despite not being a great writer, really knocked it out of the park at almost all the right moments. Anakin's death, Borsk's sacrifice, Jacen's capture, the fall of Coruscant--I haven't read the book almost since it came out, and these scenes still stick with me. I don't know how, but Denning really acquitted himself well when he had to with this one.

    Tatooine Ghost, which I personally don't like at all but whatever, is an isolated, low-key story with a limited setting and cast of characters, set in a time frame already littered with continuity, so realistically there's only so much damage Denning could have done. It wasn't until the editing staff basically handed him the keys to the kingdom and let him largely determine the direction of the post-NJO that his authorial tendencies became a problem. As much as I feel Denning is a mediocre writer, I'd have no objection to letting him continue to write standalone books or plugging pre-formed pieces into a larger narrative; mediocre writing goes with the territory, after all. Just keep him out of the driver's seat when it comes to plotting extended storylines and trailblazing new eras.
    Last edited by _Catherine_, Jan 15, 2014
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    SbS remains the best summary of the good, the bad and the ugly in NJO.

    Best book of NJO remains TUF.
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  5. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
  6. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Quit being cryptic and get to the point, come on, I haven't got all night.....
  7. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I'm talking about the novel in which a Solo struggles with the dark side following the death of Anakin Solo and slowly comes back to the path of the light with the help of a dubious Sith.
    [IMG]
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Jan 15, 2014
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  8. Cynical_Ben Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2013
    star 4
  9. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    This I definitely had not heard.When did they say this? Before or after LOTF was released? If it was after, I can definitely understand the reluctance given how the post-NJO was bungled up, but if it was pre-LOTF, even after the questionable Dark Nest, I would personally love to know what their reasons were for it.

    Anyone know?
  10. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    They both said it after Legacy of the Force was released:

    "When I wrote The Unifying Force, I was sort of writing the end of an era for myself. I didn’t want to write about Han and Luke and Leia anymore after that novel – although I did in Millennium Falcon, but there was a request that I set that book at a certain time. I just don’t find as much interest out there beyond The New Jedi Order, so I like the Prequel era now." source

    "I haven’t read Legacy; it’s not my era. I suppose I’ll have to, if LFL ever gives me a chance at my fondest Star Wars dream: to write the final adventure of the Big Three. Since that job appears unlikely to be forthcoming, I’ll very likely restrict myself to the Clone Wars-through-Dark Times eras—the post-RotJ era is entirely too crowded for comfort." source
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Jan 15, 2014
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  11. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    :_|
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  12. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Well that those are both post-LOTF explains a LOT IMHO. Given how things turned out post-NJO. (Yet another reason to reboot the ST post-TUF)

    Luceno's quote does imply a criticism of the Big-3 focus in that era, deliberate or not. I wonder how he would have reacted if it had instead focused on the new generation.

    Stover seems to have more definite ideas of the specific books he wants to write, though I'' surprised he wouldn't want to do Jacen's Journey...
  13. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Well, for what it's worth, Stover did say this:

    Would you be interested in writing, if you were approached with the idea, Jacen’s 5 year sojourn between NJO and DN?

    MWS: Not so much. I’ve already done my Jacen novel. I’m not sure I’d have anything fresh to add.

    link

    Of course, that's also framed within the context of LOTF, as the interview took place after it concluded and Jacen was dead. Had Jacen a bright future ahead of him, perhaps Stover would have given a different answer, but despite being a Jacen fan I really don't care to see such a novel myself (unless it revealed everything that took place after NJO was a vision Jacen had during the course of said novel).

    Belated reply!
    [IMG]
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Jan 15, 2014
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  14. Darth_Henning Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2007
    star 3
    Still surprised to be honest. But I'm not him, so perhaps we just have different interests.

    I personally suspect that the results of LOTF may have tainted a lot of writers from wanting to work in that era given what an about-face that series was from NJO.

    Personally I'd love for LOTF, FOTJ and Legacy (even though that's actually good) to be written off as a force vision of Luke or Jacen and have someone write a trilogy of novels leading from the end of TUF into the Sequel Trilogy. I think that would be an excellent way to appease many. But that's my personal pipe dream.
  15. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Eh, the NJO is forever tarnished. Del Rey soared too close to the sun.
  16. patchworkz7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2004
    star 4

    Sorry, my fault for reading through this thread for the first time and playing catch-up, won't happen again!
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  17. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    DM, now you're just blatantly in wind-up mode!
  18. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  19. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
  20. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Crowdsourcing time--can anyone find an animated gif of this shot? Preferably largish?
  22. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    [IMG]

    I'll see if I can find it without text.
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  23. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Nov 21, 2000
    star 4
    Well, neither sounds as if they'd say no if a paycheck came along, especially Luceno who did write for the era after all. Turning them into poster boy heroes for the "LOLTIFF suxx" movement is taking them a bit out of context, isn't it.

    By the way - how if the post-ROTJ era crowded in comparison to the Clone Wars? o_O
  24. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Something someone said made me realize that Millennium Falcon seems like it was originally written to be set in the prequel era, and the Legacy stuff was added because they told him that he had to set it there. But it very much seems like Luceno was trying to write a prequel era novel.

    Edit: It wouldn't surprise me if it was meant to be a new Republic era novel either.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Jan 21, 2014
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  25. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    Clone Wars is, at least for Vader and Obi-Wan, the PT era is essentially blank though.