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Lit Eleven-ThirtyEight and stuff

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Jul 8, 2013.

?

Well?

  1. I don't care

    19 vote(s)
    17.4%
  2. Hm, neat

    48 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. OMG COOPER IS MY HERO

    42 vote(s)
    38.5%
  1. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Yeah but Jacen sucks.
     
  2. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That's easily more than enough characters. Don't forget Lumpy. I would love to see Han finding a young scoundrel and mentoring him or her. That would be awesome!
     
  3. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Sure. Perhaps it didn't kill off the genre generation in those terms, but it at least felt like it did (indeed, that's the rallying call of many wearied by the NJO). Perhaps we were wrong, but that it felt like that is problematic.

    We had a lot of new characters introduced, and I thought that it was a great start to a transition. Especially that rat Fey'lya as CoS -- there was an inspired and hilarious choice.

    But I think towards the end things settled back to the big three as they tried to wrap things up. Even TUF had Luke play a key role in the final confrontation, with Jaina knocked out of contention.

    And I leave unsaid how the post-NJO was a step backwards from all the good the NJO actually did because I think we all agree there.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
    Jedi Ben and Force Smuggler like this.
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Maybe I've spent too much time in Ignorance is Bias thread but, in my recent reread of TUF a couple of months back, that really jumped out at me - DW: Jaina gets to kill Tsavong Lah, TUF? Knocked out by the actual super-boss. Huh?
     
  5. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Fixed.
     
  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I wish we could have seen Tahiri rallying the Shamed Ones in TUF.
     
  7. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    The fact that Jaina had little to do in the finale demonstrates how little there was for Anakin to do if he survived.
     
  8. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Love it. Great post Havac.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  10. The Extreme Moderate

    The Extreme Moderate Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Kenny Baker????? He never could think outside of the box.[face_whistling]
     
  11. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I'm really tempted to start a poll thread here based on Ben's new piece.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  12. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Only if multiple votes are allowed. Polls where you have to choose only one option are too limiting, man.

    That said, I'm probably a mix of the more SW = good fan and the reconciler. I care about continuity, but not enough to stop me from being interested in any future SW works if canon go BOOM.
     
  13. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I expected an EU reboot before Disney bought LucasFilm as a consequence of the storytelling, and then the sales, going into the gutter.
     
  14. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    I'll go with The Reciprocity Principle
     
  15. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  16. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2013
    I didn't get far enough into the EU to 'see' Leia actually properly take up Jedi training. While I love politician!Leia, I would like her to be more proficient in her use of the Force than the was for the bulk of the EU, even if she doesn't commit to the Jedi way of life.
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    You need a "don't care, will read what I like anyway" option. :p

    Or "The Apathetic".

    As far as Leia...politician. Her romance with Han is one of only two Star Wars romances that I like, and her becoming a Jedi would involve way too much "the PT Jedi sucked and we need to throw out their rules" commentary. Do not want.
     
  18. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Having just finished The Clone Wars, I opened up a can of worms in the Ahsoka in TCW thread.

    Even amongst people who don't like Ahsoka, there are a multitude of different views. I looked on ETE and there doesn't seem to be a post on it.

    Would any of you folks consider writing something on Ahsoka? Assuming CooperTFN is down with it. You'd get internet hugs from me.
     
  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I was developing something along those exact lines a while back, but I never found the right angle for it. It sounds like the beginning of a good pitch, if you ask me. :)
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That could possibly get more explosive than my post on Mara Jade.

    Even as someone who does not like analyzing fan dynamics--I've always been more of a "like what you want, I don't care" type of person--I find the level of emotional attachment to these two characters a bit mind-boggling.
     
  21. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'm echoing Coop to a degree, but if you really want it done right.....
     
    CooperTFN likes this.
  22. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Well, I've seen lots of extremes of opinions here and elsewhere about Ashoka. I'm personally neutral on her overall; in my re-watch of TCW it seems like every time she does something useful or makes a positive step toward being a likable character, she does or says something insufferable to make up for it. Thus cancelling itself out and leveling the ground again. I do think she got off to a very poor start in the movie, since she's plainly supposed to be a counterpart to Anakin: skilled beyond her age but strongly opinionated and, while she's respectful to the Masters (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Plo, etc) she treats Anakin like an older brother, something he alternatively encourages and discourages. She's put in a position where there is no winning right from the get-go.

    I've looked for an undercurrent of development and depth to her as the series progresses, I really have. But it's just fits and starts, there's no arc, there's no real plan for her beyond a few blips here and there. She gets some really strong moments in late season 1/early season 2, Storm over Ryloth and Weapons Factory/Brain Invaders being particular standouts. Then she turns around and acts like a spoiled kid in Lightsaber Lost. You do see her grow quite a bit if you watch the series chronologically, comparing her in, for example, Lethal Trackdown (end of season 2) to her temperament in the move makes it clear what they were trying to do.

    And then they do the (ambiguous) time skip for season 3 and she stops being a learner and becomes really boring, because now she's the one teaching, which takes almost all of her spark away. Her roles in the Mandalore!corruption arc and in the Trandoshan!Chewbacca arc could be filled by any of the other Jedi in the show and they'd work exactly the same. And by season 4, beyond her one episode A Friend in Need, they've basically moved on from her and started focusing on just telling whatever cool stories they feel like. Season 5 moves her back into the spotlight, but she still lacks the charisma she had at the beginning and there wasn't enough development of her in season 4 to set her (extremely gradual) disillusioned-with-the-war arc up.

    Someone asked Greg Weisman on Twitter who his favorite character from TCW was. He said Ashoka. And while I respect the man and love his work, I'm still struggling to figure out why, beyond what the crew was willing to do to close off her story arc being a relatively daring fate for the face of their program. She's perfectly representative of the series as a whole: inconsistently written, ambitious but not quite pulling off what was planned, and leaving on a high note that makes people forget how many problems there were in the early going.

    Sorry for the length. Just... got carried away, I suppose.
     
  23. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    That's more or less my own position, though I think in retrospect I'm a little more favorable toward her (and the show) than you are. And leaving aside actual storytelling matters I think she's been enormously valuable for SW as a whole as a totem for young girls (and for bringing Ashley Eckstein into fandom). That's the part I had trouble balancing--the real problems with the way the character was done (which, like you say, are just TCW's problems in miniature) compared to what a great thing she's been for SW.
     
    jSarek, Iron_lord and Cynical_Ben like this.
  24. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Fair enough. Seeing the pictures of Ashley and Vanessa Marshall together at SW Weekends on Twitter had that effect on me as well; Ashley and Vanessa are both role models and ambassadors to the fans, especially the female (young girl specifically) demographic that's so difficult for most male-based franchises to capture. And Ashley was there, as far as I could tell, as a moderator, not a guest; she's basically embedded herself into the franchise in a way that none of the other voice actors barring maybe James Arnold Taylor or Sam Witwer have. Not to mention her work with the Her Universe clothing line, which is apparently still selling like gangbusters every time they come out with something new.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm just smh at the sad idea that there are girls out there who thought it was less acceptable to be a Star Wars fan until Eckstein showed up and made them feel "welcomed."

    I thought Carrie Fisher had both started and finished that job. Do millennials so easily forget?