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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Emperor Palpatine's Motivations

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by spacename_the_name, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. spacename_the_name

    spacename_the_name Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    I know we hear a lot about Sith and what not, but we never really learned much in the PT and especially the OT (where they weren't even thought of yet).

    For the most part, Palpatine just seemed to enjoy amassing power. Whether that be destroying the Jedi or creating a Galactic Empire. It all went to the his goal of power, unlimited power to be exact.

    The only thing we know of the Sith is that they got "revenge" in ROTS. How I don't know.

    Anyway, what if Palpatine wasn't a Sith. I mean, he killed his master who was a Sith and seemed to have equal contempt for the Jedi and Sith. And very few dictators throughout history were wholly evil. I mean, even Hitler, whom we try to de-humanize, was fairly normal in a lot of regards.

    My point, is that I think the Sith want to basically destroy the galaxy, and Palpatine would rather have power. So in a sense, he created the Empire to not only bring "peace" to the galaxy (which for the most part he did), but to possibly stave off any "Sith" invasion.


    TL;dR
    Palpatine wasn't the greatest Sith and was almost trying to save the galaxy from the onslaught of the Sith in the coming years. (Not because he's nice, but because he liked power)
     
  2. starocean90

    starocean90 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2014
  3. Grand_Moff_Jawa

    Grand_Moff_Jawa Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    You do realize this is the Episode 7 forum, right?
     
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  4. spacename_the_name

    spacename_the_name Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    The Sith come back in Ep VII. Real Sith and they aren't happy
     
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  5. PrincessKenobi

    PrincessKenobi Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2000
    I'm going to lock this and talk to the saga mods and see if they have this thread. If they don't I'll unlock and move it. If they do, I will post a thread and pm you a link redirecting you to that discussion.
     
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  6. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    This thread is appropriate for PT. spacename_the_name if you want to clarify specifics this is the time to do so.
     
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  7. Among the Clouds

    Among the Clouds Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2001
    There's not a lot of background shelled out in the PT about the Sith. At least not as much as I'd have liked to see, which I think could have benefited the mainstream audience just a bit. It's quite obvious that they're the bad guys in TPM, as they're behind the Trade Federation blockade and one of them kills Qui-Gon. And they're still scheming in AOTC and ROTS, with the culmination of their efforts resulting in the Jedi Purge and formation of the Galactic Empire. Darth Maul indicating that they (the Sith) are getting revenge is obvious, since they're fighting the Jedi in the three films, but it's not exactly outlined what they're getting revenge for. Ki-Adi Mundi says the Sith have been extinct for a millennium, with Mace Windu indicating that the Sith would not have returned without their knowing. So I think we are sort of meant to infer that the Jedi had something to do with their extinction, but the background is still quite vague.

    The Legends EU goes into detail about what happened with the Sith and what their motivations are in seeking revenge and taking over the galaxy. There's a lot that this entrails, but in short, the Jedi and Sith have been enemies for millennia. Their struggle in leading the fight for which side would rule the galaxy goes back a very long time, with the Sith mostly being eradicated 1,000 years before TPM (this was largely the doing of Darth Bane). The Sith enacted the Rule of Two, passing on their knowledge in secret while building up their wealth, resources, and connections until they could take revenge by ridding the galaxy of the Jedi and, perhaps more importantly, taking over the Republic.

    If Palpatine wasn't a Sith, things would have probably been quite different. He would have been just another politician vying for power in the Senate, and he may not have been able to orchestrate what happened with Naboo. In turn, he wouldn't have been able to position himself to become Chancellor. At least not the way it happened in the films. He also wouldn't have had access to the vast connections and resources the Sith had developed, and he wouldn't have had his connection to the Force to aid him in guiding everything to his design.

    I disagree that the Sith simply wanted to destroy the galaxy. Their methods were definitely extreme with regards to the murdering of various species and the destruction of planets, but they ultimately wanted to control the galaxy rather than destroy it.
     
  8. spacename_the_name

    spacename_the_name Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005

    My point I was trying to make was the following:

    Palpatine created the Empire and ruled over it for years. He killed his Sith master and seemed to have equal disdain for both Jedi and Sith. He wanted power and to rule over the galaxy, not to destroy it.

    The Sith (whatever form they may take in the ST) probably don't want the same things Palpatine wanted.

    Palpatine knew the Sith wanted to destroy the galaxy (ie...something other than what Palpatine wanted), and he wanted to rule it. He did the same thing to the Sith that he did to his master. My guess is that the Sith weren't none to happy with this.


    In short, Palpatine used the Sith to get what he wanted.
     
  9. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    I have never heard of the Sith wanting to destroy the galaxy, they wanted to rule it, the ability to control everyone else. In other words, absolute power. The only thing they actually wanted to destroy were the Jedi, as they were the ones who stopped their earlier rule.

    I don't see any contempt or disdain by Palpatine for the Sith. As a matter of fact, he proclaims that the Sith now rule the galaxy again, which he would hardly say if he didn't consider himself to be one. Whether any Sith return in VII is irrelevant, as is whether they consider Palpatine to be a Sith or nor. Their opinion is meaningless and doesn't define what a Sith is, as they don't define who is a Sith and who isn't, it's merely what they want the Sith to be. Palpatine was a Sith and accomplished exactly what the Sith wanted to accomplish.

    You cannot really say he used the Sith to get what he wanted either, because a) he was a Sith, and with the death of his master the last one at that, b) the Sith spend ages building up to the point where one of them would be able to do exactly what Palpatine did. If you are merely the last stone in a long-lasting plan, you are hardly acting against what the Sith wanted. Instead, you are the fulfillment of everything the Sith wanted.
     
  10. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    In a hypothetical situation where a Sith Lord realises that he/she is unable to control the universe, I reckon that Sith Lord would rather destroy the universe than let it fall into the hands of his/her enemies.
     
  11. lovelikewinter

    lovelikewinter Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2014
    The backstory for the Sith got dumped into the Phantom Menace Novel- it was never explained in the films to a great degree.
     
  12. Andy Wylde

    Andy Wylde Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2014
    The Sith's just want to control as much as they can. They also want to dominate. Sidious did this thru political manipulation which I thought was an ingenious way of going about getting control. Sidious played the republic, CIS and the Jedi like a violin. Evil or not, you got to give a guy like that some credit.
     
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  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    How is they killed and discredited the Jedi, then manipulated the government into giving Palpatine the keys to ruling the Republic as the Empire.

    PALPATINE: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace."

    MACE: "The oppression of the Sith will never return."

    Doesn't sound like destroying the galaxy.

    The Sith are the natural enemy of the Jedi. As George Lucas describes it, the Sith were once in control of the galaxy 1000 years in the past. Unfortunately, the Sith's hunger for conquest got the better of them-so many Sith lords were vying for ultimate control that it led to infighting among their ranks. Such internecine struggles were exploited by the Jedi Knights of the era, and they were able to turn the tide and defeat the Sith.

    As Ki-Adi-Mundi states in Episode I, the Sith have been extinct for a millenium; however, not all were wiped out. A surviving Sith Lord sought to rebuild the order, to retake the galaxy, and to take revenge. This Sith Lord realized the dangers of having too many in the order, so he kept his existence a secret. It would be a long time coming, but he carefully plotted revenge. There would be only two Sith Lords at a time, a master and an apprentice, working in secret, planting the seeds for their eventual rise.

    By Episode III, the Sith are ready to reveal themselves. There's no more need for subterfuge, no more need for skulking in the shadows. Darth Sidious, the Sith mastermind, will make good on a 1000-year plot to finally avenge the fallen order, destroy the Jedi Knights, and retake command of the galaxy.

    --Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 60

    "The Sith are the archenemies of the Jedi," George Lucas explained, "and for a long time, they ruled the universe until the Jedi came along and got rid of them."

    --George Lucas, Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 80


    "One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other."

    --George Lucas, Bill Moyers Time Magazine Interview; 1999.



    "One of the issues in all of this is the bad guys think they’re good and Lord Sidious thinks he’s bringing peace to the galaxy because there is so much corruption and confusion and chaos going on and now he’s going to be able to straighten everything out which maybe true but the price the galaxy is going to have to pay for it is way too much."

    --George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.


    Nor does that.
     
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  14. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Palpatine was trying to save the galaxy from the Sith? Wtf? Did you watch the scene where he brags about the Sith ruling the galaxy?
     
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  15. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I think the point that people are arguing here is that Palpatine never shows disdain for the Sith. He spends much of ROTS bragging about the power of the Sith, talking about molding Anakin into the ultimate Sith and talking about Anakin continuing the lineage of the Sith.
     
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