Emperor Palpatine's True Identity

Emperor Palpatine is the leader of the Galactic Empire. He created the galactic wide tyranny against which the Rebels fight. But known to very few is the fact that Emperor Palpatine is secretly a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious. It was Darth Sidious that masterminded the Clone Wars and gave the order to kill the Jedi at the end of the war.

Now, the average galactic citizen has no idea who or what the Sith are. But by the end of Season 2, the Jedi of the Ghost Crew, Kanan and Ezra know about the Sith and that Darth Vader is a Sith Lord.

Do they also know that the Emperor, whom Vader serves is also a Sith? Does Kanan know that the Chancellor he and the other Jedi served in the Clone Wars was really their enemy all along? Or is Kanan still blind to the fact that the Jedi Order was duped from the start and that they were merely the puppets of the Dark Lord of the Sith?

Ahsoka seems to know more than Kanan, as she references Sidious's plot from Children of the Force in the Rebels episode Future of the Force. But does she actually know that it was Sidious behind it and that the Emperor is the Dark Lord the Jedi were searching for all long?

"A Sith Lord tried the same thing in the Clone Wars. But the Jedi Order stopped him."

Nowhere does she mention that the Sith Lord in question is the Emperor of the Galaxy and the ultimate master of all the Inquisitors and Darth Vader. Yoda and Bail Organa know all this, but they don't seem to share the truth with their allies.

So how does the Ghost Crew perceive the Emperor? As what he appears to be? A frail old man who doesn't involve himself in the day-to-day operations of his Empire? Do they consider Palpatine to be a figurehead and Vader to be the real evil?

 

I think only a few (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader) actually knew Palpatine was a Sith.

My guess is that the Ghost Crew + The inquisitors believe Vader was the Sith Master, not the apprentice.

 

I don't get the impression that Kanan or Ahsoka know. Kanan didn't even seem to know of Vader until he encountered him, and once he realized that Vader was a Sith and not an Inquisitor, it seemed to be all about confronting and destroying Vader. And when Kanan and Ezra leave Malachor, I get the impression that Kanan believes both Ahsoka and Vader to be dead, as Ezra is mourning Ahsoka, but Kanan comforts him by saying it's over.

One thing I find curious is the complete LACK of interest in the second Sith. They would, I assume, be aware of the Rule of Two, and if they only know that Vader is one of them, then they don't know the identity of the second, and much like as it was in TPM, they wouldn't know if Vader was the master or the apprentice. At least Kanan wouldn't.

Filoni has described Ahsoka as subconsciously knowing Vader is Anakin the whole time, but not wanting to admit it, since she couldn't feel him in the Force. Then she sensed him briefly but dismissed it. Now that she has found out that Anakin is a Sith Lord, and looking at what has happened with the Republic and the Emperor, etc. I'm guessing that Ahsoka probably knows the truth about what happened and that Palpatine is a Sith Lord, but we have not had the chance to follow up with Ashoka's story after her confrontation with Vader. And Filoni has mentioned that it's a possibility that she may not turn up again in Rebels, and that stories of her may continue in other media. So whatever she may have learned might not ever be known to Kanan.

Kanan doesn't know Vader is Anakin, I don't think he ever will know. And given that the topic of the second Sith has never come up, I'm guessing that he's completely unaware that the Emperor is a Sith.

However, and this is just speculation:

The Jedi are fully aware of what a Sith is and that the Sith crave power. Considering that the Emperor is in charge, I would think that a Jedi would assume one of two things.

1. That the Emperor is the Sith Master -- Because why would a Sith serve a non-Force user? If Vader serves the Emperor, then the Emperor must be his master, or else Vader would be ruling. No Sith is going to serve a non-Force user, they would claim power for themselves.

2. That the Emperor is a powerless figurehead and that Vader is really in charge as the power behind the throne. If this is Kanan's assumption, then the death of Vader (again, I get the impression that Kanan believes Vader to have died in the blast) would mean that Kanan believes they just killed the leader of the Empire and perhaps they feel the Empire will be significantly weaker now without leadership.

I think it's completely conspicuous that people like Maul and Ahsoka, who know more than Kanan does, are so preoccupied with Vader, and yet never even mention the second Sith. Especially in Maul's case, when he knows who the second Sith is, and knows first hand how powerful he is.

I'm hoping that this comes to the forefront more in Season 3. That we get some insight into what the heroes think the Imperial chain of command is, how they plan to stop the Emperor. Do they feel the Emperor is a powerless figurehead controlled by Vader, etc.

I believe Vader referred to his master several times, telling 5th Brother and 7th Sister that his master would be pleased by his discovery of the Jedi Temple, and telling the Grand Inquisitor that his master commands that the Children of the Force be made to serve him or be destroyed.

Vader also tells Ezra that the power of the Sith Temple will serve the Emperor. And he tells Ahsoka that the Emperor will show her mercy, if she gives up the location of surviving Jedi. He speaks of the Emperor as being his superior. And going back to my point #1 above, I'm guessing that a Jedi would deduce that the Emperor is a Sith.

 

I assumed that they would assume Vader's master was the Emperor, but not necessarily a Sith master.

But again, you made points for that.

 

I'm curious if this will be addressed in the new canon. There's hints that suggest no one but anyone close to him knows, then others that suggest it's pretty open that he is a Force user/Sith. Let's just say people live in fear of Sheev regardless if his powers are widely known.

 

Just to clarify Sheev hides his force sensitivity from everyone, but Vader and Mas Amada the rest as far as I am aware do not know.

 

The Emperor has foreseen the children of the Force being a threat against him, is clear enough that the Inquisitors know that the Emperor is a Force user Sith Lord master of Vader, its not a secret to them. Many of the Inquisitors are also former Jedi Knights and padawans.

They've largely ignored the Emperor on this show which is very strange since he played such a large role on TCW as Palpatine and in later on more and more as Darth Sidious . The PT made Palpatine more a main character as well. They seem more want to recreate the atmosphere of ANH, where everything is unsaid and unseen, but it does not work since back then Lucas never mapped it out, or shared a whole lot outside the novelizations there was just the movies back then and the old Marvel series.

"I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi. The Dark Side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor.." - Windu



They seemed to have ignored it during the waning days of the old Republic, but it was something they(the Jedi) could sense yet. So far they have not used the Emperor in any strong capacity but I expect him to play a larger part during Season 3. Yoda does not warn them, but one can interpret Yoda's hiding the truth that the Jedi served the Dark Lord from Ezra as protecting the boy from too much information, but it does not explain Kanan who went through the Clone Wars and the whole Order 66. He never talked about the Emperor and its likely he's ignorantof him being a Force user. But it brings us back to Yoda's silence or even Kenobi. Did Kenobi not warn any suriving Jedi the the Supreme Chancellor was the Sith Lord Master, that would've been of high importance, along with Anakin's treachery.



One of the major shortcomings of the finale was that Ahsoka and Kanan never really get any information or knowledge , they even cut the dialogue where Ahsoka asked Maul if she knew the identity of Vader which is also odd since she figured it out way back in the premiere but did not want to accept and she vanished every so often to seek answers but we're never told what she was doing when she did, where did she go and all of that. Just made no sense why she was never around much, but the impression was left that she was aiding and training both Kanan and Ezra in some capacity for months if not a year off camera.

 

Incorrect. Palpatine openly displayed his Force powers on the planet Ryloth, when he and Vader fought a horde of Lyleks. The only witnesses to this incredible display of power were the two Royal Guards who were with the Sith at the time. When additional witnesses were present however, Palpatine did not enter combat, leaving the deed to Vader, as he remarked:

"I cannot be seen using the Force in front of so many witnesses."

So the fact that the Emperor is a Force-wielder of unparalleled power is a well-kept secret. But one that those closest to Palpatine are privy to. I suppose I should clarify that the comment of Palpatine hiding his power for everyone is what I am calling incorrect. Those closest to the Emperor are trustworthy enough to be allowed to witness his power and live. Given that the Jedi are all but gone and the emigre galaxy bows to Palpatine, Darth Sidious is free to use his Force abilities whenever he wants. Any Imperial Officer that comes face to face with the Emperor would have all his thoughts laid bare before the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith in history.

 

Yes, but when the Twi'leks in that village so his power Vader had to murder them all because they saw Palpatine's power, but you are correct that the Royal Guard does know about his powers.

 

The Emporer's identity??

Sheev's just this guy...you know.

 

ESB and ROTJ don't act like Sheev's ability to use The Force is a plot twist and all the characters seem to be aware of it (Vader wouldn't need Luke's help to "destroy" a non-Force-user).

 

I understand that, yet Sheev says that he needs no witnesses to his force powers except for Vader and the royal guards

 

I don't think the general public knows. I was talking about people like Luke, Ahsoka, Kanan, and Ezra.

 

Do they? They show no indication of knowing that Vader is but a servant to the real evil. To Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra, Darth Vader is the major enemy. They show no knowledge of Palpatine's Sith identity. In fact, none of them so much as say the name Palpatine or Darth Sidious.

 

Love how the royal guards were still throwing themselves in harm's way even after witnessing huge displays of the Emperor's power. Much like a kid acting like a body guard to the Rock Johnson...Lol

 

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Also, wouldn't the Rule of Two tell them that Vader eithet has a master or has an apprentice? The fact that there's always a master an apprentice and Vader's apprentice is nowhere to be seen implies that Vader has a master.

 

Kanan seems to have some familiarity with Anakin, but has no reason to believe that Anakin is Vader, and has no reason to suspect that Palpatine is a Sith Lord. Palpatine is apparently keeping his Sith identity a secret (which I didn't know was confirmed in a book), while he does nothing to hide Vader's identity as a Sith. If I were Kanan, I might believe that Palpatine is either a willing puppet of the Sith conspiracy, or a tragic captive forced to serve the Sith agenda.

But despite the Rebels' attempts to fight the EMPIRE, there has been too little discussion about the Emperor himself for my tastes. The Emperor got a single mention in ANH, but by ESB it was firmly established that he was someone that Vader bowed to, that foresaw things, that he was interested in Luke, etc.

And by ROTJ, there is explicit mention by Mon Mothma that Palpatine is an enemy, not some puppet.

I understand that Rebels takes place before ANH, but I feel like they need to give up on following the ANH mold for Palpatine. When TCW aired, they initially tried to keep things consistent by never showing Palpatine to be a bad guy, but I think they found out that couldn't last, and things got more and more blatant that Palpatine was the Sith Lord. I feel like they need to give up on this minimalist approach to Palpatine. That it needs to at least be addressed whether or not the heroes see him as the architect of the Empire, or if they see him as merely a puppet. By ROTJ he is firmly considered a villain that Mon Mothma accuses of making an error and who decides to attack the second Death Star when she learns that Palpatine is going to be overseeing the final construction of the Death Star.

I feel the saga has taken a weird stance on the character, in that he hardly gets acknowledged at all in TFA, and Snoke and Kylo seem to hold Vader in higher regard than Palpatine, despite Vader being the weaker apprentice. Palpatine's legacy in creating the Empire (the remains of which have now been taken by Snoke) seems less important and Palpatine seems unimportant in hindsight.

Honestly, I would not be offended if Rogue One established that Palpatine was subservient to Snoke in some way, or at least his equal, just because it doesn't seem like Snoke really cares about Palpatine. He doesn't seem to stand in awe or envy of what Palpatine did, instead he seems more interested in the legacy of Palpatine's apprentice.

The only reason I question whether or not they would do that is because thus far there has not been the same kind of cross over world building in the Star Wars universe that Marvel has done.

Things that get established in Captain America carry over to The Avengers, and things that happen in Guardians of the Galaxy lay the groundwork with things that happen in other movies. Marvel is different however in that the comics are not part of the same continuity as the films, as is the case with Star Wars. So maybe things like Snoke, Poe's parents, Maz, might get nods and a little more backstory in these spinoff films (I don't expect them to be major by any means), but it's too soon to tell if Star Wars will mirror Marvel in things like how Thanos was established in Avengers, further fleshed out in Guardians of the Galaxy, and had a behind the scenes presence across several films building towards his future significance in Infinity War. Perhaps Snoke will be retroactively important in the lore, or maybe they'll just save all of his story for the saga.

At any rate, Filoni has expressed disinterest in developing plot points from the films, when he was interviewed and asked if the Jedi Temple Guard (that would ultimately be revealed to be the Grand Inquisitor) was Snoke. So at any rate, I don't think such a backstory - if any exists between Snoke and Palpatine - will ever be touched upon in Rebels. But I do feel like Palpatine has fallen to the wayside heavily in the new canon. He hardly gets mentioned in Rebels (before the saga). He gets referenced in a single sentence in ANH. In ESB, he has a brief appearance, but Yoda spends virtually all of his time warning Luke about Vader, and Palpatine continues to hardly be acknowledged, despite being the big bad guy. And then in ROTJ, that's about the only time he gets any kind of significant presence, though Yoda still spends more time insisting Luke confront Vader, and only cautioning Luke once about Palpatine's power. Then in TFA, we see that Vader's legacy is more important to the leaders of the new regime than Palpatine's.

 

Okay then we agree on that regard.

This is why I am so happy Pablo shuts down ill fated theories and speculations like about Snoke being in Rogue One.

It does not seem like Lucasfilm is going for connection from the spinoffs to later movies.

 

I think you would enjoy the canon Vader comics. There's a lot of intrigue between Vader and Palpatine.

 

Its hard to fathom that Luke did not tell Kylo that the Emperor was a Sith Lord and Vader's master, anymore than Yoda(and Kenobi) failing to inform Luke that the Emperor was a Sith Lord. It took Yoda in his death bed to inform Luke to beware of the Emperor and his powers, but that is very generic and was in passing. The Emperor's powers went beyond temptation and seduction and casting lightning it also went into lightsaber combat and martial arts,lol.

Snoke effectively takes the place of Sidious as the Emperor and master to Kylo's place as the neo-Vader-like character, and the First Order chain of command was deliberately meant to mimic the set up of the Emperor, Vader and Tarkin(Hux being the Tarkin and a lil bit that idiot Captain Phasma character). Kylo looks to Snoke to transform and train him into being like Darth Vader. The impression left on this series Rebels and in TFA was that the Emperor was not known to be a Sith Lord and he's completely elusive. The new canon basically establishes him as a recluse and in exile in his own palace ,lol. One must suppose that Sidious devotes most of his time to practicing rituals and resting. day to day operations are left to the military government, Vader and whatever cronies he's got acting in his place like the Grand Vizier .

 

Did he? I was unaware. I can't say I'm happy about that. Snoke's backstory hasn't been established enough to know whether it's even appropriate for him to be in Rogue One, but having things like Hux's father or Poe's parents (with Poe said to be born on Yavin, which is where the Rebel Base is), I feel would be appropriate and nice nods to have.

The idea that the numbered saga needs to stand apart from the spinoffs, from the TV series, etc. I think is missing out on what makes Marvel's approach so neat, in that Guardians of the Galaxy is only tangentially related to any of the Avengers, but there is still that thread connecting them via Thanos' involvement. That there's some clean break between the OT and ST I think is a missed opportunity for the same kind of intertwining of tales that Marvel has pursued.

I at first was opposed to Filoni wrapping up TCW plot lines in Rebels, but then with the Season 2 finale, that has perhaps been my favorite episode yet, for bringing in these TCW characters, but the episode's biggest failing IMO is that he DIDN'T wrap up any of their stories. Ahsoka learns the truth and walks away, with Filoni suggesting it's a real possibility that she may not make any further appearances on the show. So her learning the truth has no impact on the Rebels' crew, if she does not crop back up to inform them what she learned. Maul is still alive. Vader failed to kill Ahsoka. Maul failed to achieve what he wanted. And while Kanan believes it to be over, we know he's wrong. Virtually not a single character achieved anything. It was an episode filled with fan service and cool moments, but the only significant thing that happened to drive the story forward is that Ezra is now "thinking like a Sith" due to Ahsoka's death (or he believes her to be dead), when Filoni didn't even kill her.

Despite my earlier misgiving of wrapping up TCW plot points in Rebels, I think that this episode could have been many times better if Filoni had... you know... wrapped up any of the plot points. So long as they impact the Rebels' crew for better or worse and affect the trajectory of their development, I guess in hindsight I would have been OK with it. Instead all these characters were brought to a climax, and not a single one of them died or had any kind of closure except the expendable inquisitors. Then each character scatters to go have future stories in some other medium.

So two points:

1. I think bringing in TCW's characters actually was a good call, despite my earlier criticism, because it made for one of the best episodes.

2. The failure to actually conclude any of the characters' stories (principally Maul or Ahsoka's) I feel was cowardly. And the episode was still held back from what it could have been, had they just bit the bullet and killed off Ahsoka for instance. Ahsoka says she won't leave Anakin, and Anakin says Ahsoka will die. Yet Filoni has both Ashoka walking away from Vader, and Vader leaving Ahsoka alive.

So I do feel like cross film/tv plot points are fine. If there's an opportunity for Kanan, etc. to get mentioned in Rogue One, go for it. If there's room for a character named Commandant Hux or something in Rebels, overseeing the training of some of the stormtroopers, that's fine. Having the Rebel Alliance founded in Rebels, immediately prior to Rogue One and seeing overlap in the important people running the organization, great.

It's not in the film, but the novelization has Snoke knowing a lot of information regarding Vader and what happened aboard the Death Star. Whether he was powerful enough to sense it, or whether he was once an earlier ally to Luke that learned what had happened from Luke, etc. I don't know, but it seems to suggest that he was out there somewhere and had been observing the Jedi had feared their return, had knowledge of the Empire, etc. Whether he was an outsider looking in, or someone that served the Emperor, etc. I don't know, but I don't think they need to shy away of making nods to Snoke in the pre-ST era. So long as they save such nods for a film and not a comic (because they reach a much larger audience and stir more hype) I have no problem with that.

And when it comes to Palpatine, I have no problem with Kanan and co. learning that he's a Sith Lord. Just because he isn't mentioned much in the OT, and just because the novels establish that he's trying to hide the fact that he's a Force user doesn't mean that Palpatine can't fail in that regard.

Filoni has already argued if people would even care if Palpatine was accused of being a Sith. He already has a Sith serving him. And while I've raised the point several times that if the Sith once toppled the Republic and oppressed the Galaxy 1,000 years ago, that this would have been a major moment in history. That anyone remotely educated in Galactic history would know names like Darth Bane and Sith. Just as names like Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, and Genghis Khan are not going to be forgotten. If the German leader established a secret police force and called it the SS, you would think the German population would see what was going on and have a problem with it.

So I always found it a bit weird that Darth Vader was allowed to run around with that name, rather than publicly keeping the name Anakin Skywalker (or even a third name/title to hide both the Sith name and his real name). Part of this is simply due to the character's name being established in ANH at a time when the decision was not yet made that it was just a title and that he was really Anakin's father, but still for the same of continuity, I would think that there would be people that logically should have a problem with Darth anything being associated with the government. If Palpatine doesn't care what people think, and if he wants people to fear him, then I see zero reason as to why he would care about hiding his abilities.

If he's consciously hiding his abilities but allowing Vader to flaunt his, I can only imagine that he wants people to see him as helpless. Just as in early drafts the Emperor was something of a pawn to the military, I am curious as to whether or not Palpatine wants to be seen as a pawn, or else why hide his abilities?

And by ROTJ, it seems pretty clear that Palpatine and not Vader is the target. Vader might be Luke's target, and Yoda and Obi-Wan might cautious more about Vader. But Mon Mothma never once mentions Vader or seems to even care as to whether or not he's there at the Battle of Endor, but she sees an opportunity to strike against the Emperor.

Perhaps Palpatine wants to be seen as a pawn being controlled by people like Vader and Tarkin, in the event that things go wrong he has scapegoats. But that by the time of ROTJ, Mon Mothma seems to have her eyes on Palpatine.

Or again, due to the nature of Lucas making the story up as he goes along, with Palpatine originally being a pawn, Vader not being Luke's father, to the idea that Vader is Luke's father and Palpatine is a powerful wizard-like character, that could account for the changes over the course of the saga of how the two characters are regarded, but better care can no be used to try to make sense in universe of these differing attitudes. So I'm all for Rebels addressing plot points left unclear in the OT about how the Emperor is regarded, etc.

 

I really doubt anthology movies will explore Snoke or whatever character from the the new trilogy before it is complete so there is basically no chance Snoke will be featured in R1.
I remember Filoni saying most imperials never met Vader or the emperor hence why Kallus is surprised to see him in Fire Across the Galaxy and some imperials did not even take him seriously like in ANH where Tarkin was clearly the one in charge. Only between ANH and ESB when he started to get more power, he was more feared then.

I understood it as Vader she is dead, I believe she is "alive" in a different form, what with all the comparisons with Gandalf and the owl that definitively has some connection with the Daughter from the Mortis trilogy plus Filoni saying she is leaving in a state of "conflict", I think Ahsoka believed it was the end for her and doesn't even understand what happened to herself at that moment.
As for Palpatine we know he is collecting ancient Sith artifact in his ship as seen in the Lando (of all places) so I doubt he is doing nothing with them, I guess he wanted to add the holocron to the collection but Kanan and Ezra has it, I wonder it that means we'll hear more from him since Vader failed to get the holocron.

 

The only thing that set Asoka apart was her aggression and her disenfranchisement with the Jedi Council which was according to her Kenobi she left her emotions cloud her judgment. I don't know what to make of any of it since all the Jedi were aggressive and were under the shroud of the Dark Side and I don't think Yoda knew about that . And how does that corruption even work, the longer your away from the Jedi Temple the less corrupt you become or it wears off?! Basically Ahsoka chose wisely by leaving the Order which saved her from Order 66. If she could not save Anakin she would avenge him, which also takes us back to the original title for ROTJ, which was the Revenge of the Jedi until Lucas decided that did not sound right coming from the good guys but essentially Yoda and Kenobi were preparing Luke to avenge the Jedi Order and Kenobi clouds the kids mind with a lie about Vader betraying and killing Anakin, his father along with all the rest.

The only clear thing about Palpatine in the new canon, is that he's a recluse, he has Dark Side adepts(not all are Force sensitives) so there is a cult that follows the Sith(with that you can include the Inquisitors ), he encourages a form of galactic atheism while in secret he practices his secret religion in secret where only a few are members in a cabal-like organization where he's the leader, he hordes religious artifacts and treasures and if he cannot possess it or take it with him in death he wants to destroy everything to where its also a matter of institutionalized agenda of historical deletion and erasing from memory of which he's been partially successful in eliminated Force religion(along with the Jedi Knight Order). He also does not really want any other Force sensitives around but for the time being he's got no choice and so he created the Inquisitorious. Even his own Apprentice need not be Force sensitive just strong and effective enough - hence the Cylo-IV creations and even General Grievous.

TFA era, its basically the same thing, the First Order wants to stamp out religion to where its just the Dark Side practitioners and one need not be a Sith in order to practice its beliefs - so we're right back to the "Dark Times" of inbetween ROTS and ANH.

 

Meh, I've been unimpressed by the lack of cohesion between the various media. Yeah, they're all canon, but thus far they don't really build off each other. For instance, in the Tarkin novel, Palpatine is reclusive, not just to the public but to his own government. And the novel mentions that he wants to establish a rigid order and eliminate his enemies so that he and Vader can go off and discover secrets of the Force. He also speaks of Plagueis' ability as though it's unimpressive and that he desires to use the Force to shape the nature of the Galaxy around him. It speaks of him as though creating the Empire was a means to an end, and that the end was not ruling the Galaxy, but leaving it to others to maintain order while the Sith devote their focus elsewhere. It was such an interesting idea, IMO, yet no other sources ever really followed up on that.

It was also mentioned that Palpatine believed that the Dark Side originated beyond the edges of the known Galaxy and that he was interested in finding its source. Another novel idea that really doesn't get supported by other sources.

In Tarkin, I actually felt that Palpatine was written incredibly poorly. His interest in seeing Vader and Tarkin appreciate each other just seemed so out of character. Then you get the Vader comic where he and Vader are constantly butting heads, Palpatine doesn't seem to care anything about Vader or how he relates to other people in the Imperial structure and quite pointedly says that if Vader doesn't have the strength to survive anything that comes his way, then he doesn't deserve to be a Sith. That was more the callousness I expect from Palpatine.

It's like cool ideas get thrown out there, but then they aren't being built upon. Filoni also threw the idea out there that Palpatine is abducting Children of the Force and somehow utilizing their abilities to enhance his ability to see the future. He made it sound like something out of Minority Report.

And so there's all these little facets of the Palpatine character that get thrown out there but aren't built upon.

 

Here is where he talks about it not being Snoke. in Rogue One
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/723174571273150465