EMPEROR Vader? I don't think so...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by EmperorAugustus, Jun 8, 2007.

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  1. EmperorAugustus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2007
    There's a whole bunch of speculation of what would've happened if Anakin hadn't been burnt to a crisp on Mustafar. Well, I guess it's not really up for speculation---he would've slaughtered Palps whenever he felt up to it. But why is it that everyone assumes that Vader would've become the next emperor? Even if Vader somehow managed to come out on top following a bloody power struggle and claimed the throne of this new empire, I don't see how he would've kept it for more than a month. From what I've seen in the films, Vader doesn't have an ounce of tact in him. And while the threat of a swift force-choking might be enough to keep a few Imperial officers in line aboard the Executor, it would not really keep the thousands of star systems in check. So what do you guys think: if Vader, the almighty Chosen One, had killed Palpatine after Mustafar, would he have become the new Galactic Emperor? And if so, how would the Empire have done with him at the helm?
  2. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    He'd probably just because the Sith Lord and rule the galaxy with an apprentice. Whether it's the secret apprentice he has in the force unleashed or he waits until Luke/ Mara [EU] show up, we don't know. Most of the forcie's are dead already because of him.
  3. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Well, the impression I got from his little recruitment speech with Padme was that he wanted them to rule together. Seems fairly reasonable-*the* hero of the clone wars and a highly respected Senator ruling together. Don't think there'd be too many objections to that.

    As for after ROTS, during the OT, I can see it working too. You can see that Vader's officers-and hell, the Empire in general, if Jerrjerod is any indication-were either scared to death or highly respectful of Vader. And let's not forget that he was the public face of the Empire; it seems that the Emperor spent alot of his time in seclusion and let Vader handle the day to day stuff.
    Not to mention that he is the official second in command- we see this very clearly in Shadows of the Empire; Palpatine leaves Vader in charge when he's away.

    And some odds and ends:

    The Dark Lord novel has vader claim that he wanted to recruit Obi-Wan as well, although the film doesn't seem to indicate this much, if at all.
  4. WolverineOfTheORS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2006
    star 3
    If Vader managed to defeat Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he would have become immensely powerful. Almost invincible. I believe that Vader would have betrayed the Emperor almost instantly. Vader was already thinking about ruling the galaxy as an individual- he was obsessed with power, and was willing to destroy anyone in his way to achieve galactic dominance. Couple this with Vader's belief that he was more powerful than the Emperor, thus, leaving Anakin with the impression that if he attacked the Emperor, he would come out on top.

    In the official ROTS game, we see Vader betraying the Emperor in the alternate ending. That is what might have happened if Vader destroyed Obi-Wan.
  5. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I think Vader would take the Throne at his first oppurtunity and while I dont't think he has Palpatine's political sense, I think Vader's Empire would basically be an incredibly oppressive and brutal dictatorship that was a complete meritocracy for those who are in military.
  6. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    He wouldn't have been able to hold the Empire together for long. Nobody but Sidious could. Sidious was the Empire.
  7. CHEVALIER_RYU Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1
    I think he probably could have managed, but I don't think he would have. I just don't see Anakin/Vader as an ambitious person.

    Give the man a ship and someone to care about and he's happy as a clam, but make him responsible for something biger than a military platoon and he'll probably be miserable.

    He doesn't particulary want to be in charge, he just hate answering to anybody, especialy if they prevent him from doing what he want.

    when he proposede it to Padmé and Luke I think he just wanted Palpatine out of the way, witch would leave him as the emperor by default. did he have any intention of actualy rulling ? I don't think so.

    he probably had a vague idea of Padmé rulling and him going on missions like he used to ( only he would follow his own orders), of Luke and him setting a working system in a few months and then going off to do their tings.

    So he could run the empire but he would go through the trouble of doing it.:p

  8. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I definitely think that Vader would leave the majority of day to day business to the bearucrats even if he was Emperor.
  9. Jedsithor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    First, Vader would have no need for a secret apprentice since he'd have Luke and Leia...remember if he defeats Obi-Wan, then he can take Padme back to Coruscant, to have the twins.

    Vader's Empire all depends on Padme. First, it depends whether she survives, and second whether she'd stay with him.

    Vader on his own would bad for the galaxy. Vader with Padme could actually work.

    If Padme is by his side, she can convince him to keep the Senate intact and retain a shred of democracy. In fact I have a feeling that Vader would become a figurehead mostly, with the Senate running the Empire while Vader rebuilds the Jedi Order, embracing both light and dark teachings and training his children.

    I do think that Vader would take direct control of the military. He would need their loyalty to maintain his power should the Senate ever turn against him.

    Of course Padme is the smart one. She'd know what it takes to keep the Senate happy and to prevent rebellion. The danger though is that the longer Vader is Emperor, the more consumed by a lust for power he would become and he could very well decide to disband the Senate...it all depends on Padme's influence.


    The biggest danger to the Empire wouldn't be a rebellion to restore the Republic, it would be a civil war between factions within the Empire, seeking control. If Luke and Leai are taught to embrace the Dark Side, they would eventually turn on their father and on each other, creating a conflict that would tear the Empire apart.

    So, while I don't necessarily think that an Empire run by Vader would be a bad thing...i would have to be maintained in just the right way...any mistakes with Luke and Leia and the Empire would be plunged into chaos.


    If Padme died...well that's something else...with nobody to restrain Vader, who would be consumed with anger and grief, he would simply work to gain the loyalty of the regional governors and the military, then disband the Senate and create an Empire much like the one Sidious controls, but with even greater restrictions and greater military presence to maintain order.

    Of course, as before, Luke and Leia would eventually turn on him and each other, start a civil war and rip the Empire to shreds.
  10. LordVader66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 4
    First off, great topic.

    It's really something to think about. But from my POV, Vader in the OT, without question, would be able to rule the Empire if he killed Palpatine. He's the clear second in command of the Empire, with the galaxy as a whole believing that Vader is the face of the Empire. Palpatine, receded into the shadows it seems, while Vader went about enforcing the Empire's will all over the galaxy. The way Dark Lord paints it, Vader appeared out of nowhere, and even many of the Imperials, not to mention the galaxy as a whole, questioned his relationship with Palpatine, even figuring that he had manipulated Palpatine, and was running the Empire himself. So I don't think it would have been a strectch during the OT for Vader to easily rule after Palpatine.

    However, if Anakin survived Mustafar, that may be a different story. It's hard to tell. He didn't seem interested in politics. I'll go with the assumption that Padme dies, as that's what happens when Vader turns Sith. I could see the man off on a distant planet in a cave meditating, trying to figure out how to reach into the netherworld of the Force to bring Padme back, while he Empire crumbles around him. Or I could see unsuited Vader really getting everyone in line and ruling his Empire with an iron fist. I'd agree that the Senate would remain largely powerful, with Vader only interfering when their actions got in the way of his plans. I don't think Vader was really interested in the DS, as we see in ANH. That may never even get built under Vader. And you've got to question Luke's line in RotJ: "I feel the good in you, the Emperor hasn't driven it from you fully" Does that mean without the Emperor's influence that Vader would have become some hybrid Sith/Jedi? Or would he still have been the next Tyranus? To blinded by his own actions to see what he had become?
  11. Matthew78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2006
    star 2
    He would have pissed the Senate off too much to last for very long,a then there is the Legality factor that nobody mentions, Palpatine was a Senator that was voted into the position of Chancellor to replace Valorum, he was later in full control of the Republic and proclaimed himself Emperor of the new Galactic Empire and was legally in place as the ruler of the Empire because the senate supported him, imagine if Darth Vader had shown up in the Glactic Senate saying that he was emperor without anyone knowing who he was except for the fact that he was a Jedi Knight.

    He wouldnt have any legal credibility, he was a jedi in the publics eye and a traitor, and by killing the emperor and seizing control as emperor himself he would be a traitor to the empire and targeted for execution, the clones wouldnt take orders from him and neither would the senate, and he would have no proof that he had been appointed emperor or that he was worthy of his title, he would kicked out or threatened and forced to leave or fight to keep control, he would piss a lot of people off by taking over, especially with Palpatines speech talking about the jedi rebellion and how it had been foiled, Vader/Anakin taking over as emperor would be seen as a jedi trying to take over and not allowed, even in the full speech in the EU palpatine said that Count Dooku was in legaue with the jedi and working with them.
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