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CT Empire=bad?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by darthbarracuda, Nov 14, 2012.

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  1. thesevegetables

    thesevegetables Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 11, 2012
    Except Wookiees, etc., are just as smart as humans...
     
  2. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    So are dolphins, bro!!!!!
     
  3. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Besides, are you saying that when luke skywalker was trying to redeem his father Anakin Skywalker, it was about freeing alien slaves????? What??????

    I'm am not sure if the redemption thing was a spiritual thing (kinda like how a Christians believe in leading a person to believe in Jesus Christ and away from an unsaved state), or making a dictator/and/or/tyrant turn from his evil ways!!!!!!!!!!!

    I had a theory, that since, only LightSiders can learn the secret to keeping their consciousnesses in the afterlife/NetherWorld of the Force, that the redemption was about bringing salvation more than anything...........
     
  4. thesevegetables

    thesevegetables Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 11, 2012
    No, they aren't.
    And dude, I already told you: THE POINT OF THE STAR WARS MOVIES AND DEFEATING THE EMIPRE IS NOT CHIEFLY ABOUT FREEING ENSLAVED ALIENS. IF YOU THINK THAT IS THE POINT OF REDEEMING ANAKIN, YOU NEED TO WATCH THE MOVIES AGAIN.
     
  5. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Please elaborate more on "No, they aren't"! I don't understand what you mean by that.............

    So, you're are saying that the rebels alliance waging a war that cost thousands, millions, maybe even billions, of lives, on both sides, was to have some guy (Anakin Skywalker) change his religion and get eternal life?????

    You're are making the Rebels Alliance sound like a bunch of religious fanatics and extremists.......

    The point of the OT SW Star Wars movies was defeating the evil Galactic Empire and freeing enslaved aliens, besides, The entire point of Redeeming Anakin Skywalker was so that he would stop being the alien-enslaving, Death-Star wielding, galaxy-wide dictator/and/or/tyrant!!!! Am I wrong???
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    They would not have built a second Death Star if they didn't have plans for the first one, that had gone unfulfilled.

    Different Rebel groups would have had different motivations.

    For some, like Mon Mothma and Bail Organa, Palpatine's abolition of democracy in favor of his own rule as monarch, might have been a major factor.

    For others, putting a stop to brutal atrocities against unarmed protestors- might have been a factor- if a regime can't tolerate protest, it has no right to exist.

    Some people might have joined up because they hated the Empire's exploitation of alien races.

    And so forth.
     
  7. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
  9. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
    Articles like that are always either taking the piss, or choose to ignore certain aspects of the content of the films - #1 being the context, that of a space fantasy saga. As I've already pointed out, the Empire is established as evil in the opening scroll of the very first film. If that's not enough, imagery like this should remove all doubt of the Empire's fundamentally 'bad' nature:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Empire's bad.

    It's obvious.

    It's meant to be obvious.
     
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Sometimes it's hard to tell which.

    True. Doesn't stop people from empathising with them.

    Maybe its the current climate, in which "rebel" is often equated to "terrorist" that's led to increasing skepticism of the Empire as villains.
     
  11. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
    I don't think it's a genuine skepticism, more a desire to illustrate the fact that nothing is as black & white as it seems - except that in the fictional SW universe it can be, so such a position isn't relevant (there is moral ambiguity in the PT, but for the most part, the OT is as black & white as it can be). Like I said, taking the piss, however seriously it might be presented, or even if it's just playing devil's advocate.
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I wonder- just how strong the sentiment that "The Empire are the real good guys" is on places like Stardestroyer.net.

    Grand Admiral Jello's posts (on this forum) usually come across as "playing a role" rather than "a sincerely held viewpoint" but even then it's sometimes hard to tell.
     
  13. Adrian the Cool

    Adrian the Cool Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2012
    The Galactic Empire had no influence on the daily live of most citizens. The Empire hated non-Humans, but Palpatine himself didn't, as Darth Plagueius, Darth Maul, Mas Amedda, Sly Moore and Thrawn can tell you. A lot of Imperials did it and species like Mon Calamari and Wookies got enslaved and others like Caamasi wiped out, but by hating, discriminating and enslaving of literally all non-Humans the Empire would get roughly three quarters of it's inhabitans as enemies. And have non-Humans been in the senate? They were part of the Empire like Humans.

    Besides, everything "evil" the Galactic Empire did in the movies has been done to fight the Alliance to Restore the Republic, nothing less than enemies of the state. The Alliance's goal was to destroy the Empire, as they themselves declared in their "Declaration of Rebellion".
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Palpatine killed Plagueis, saw Maul as a tool, and made use of Thrawn somewhat against his own preferences, going by Outbound Flight and what Doriana thought about how it wouldn't be easy for Sidious to overcome his prejudices and make use of Thrawn.

    He wasn't so much an outright hater of aliens, as someone who saw them as inferior with the odd exception- to be used without being considered equals.
     
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  15. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Aug 31, 2000
    Anyone who didn't have the force was inferior to him.
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It's a little unfair to ignore the EU when it comes to the atrocities of the Empire:
    while invoking the EU to explain the goals of the Rebel Alliance.
     
  17. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    They had weapons of mass destruction. And now that the planet is obliterated, no one can prove that they didn't.
     
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  18. Darth_Kiryan

    Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2009
    Damn them for wanting to fight for Democracy;)such a bad weapon
     
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  19. Attariel

    Attariel Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 15, 2012
    Lets be clear. It is not that the empire itself was evil but those who controled it ( palpatine and Vader) were. Its true with any goverment/ social system. Its the people that control it that make it good or evil. Even then it is a matter of perspective. I am not saying that the empire was good it set up was screwed up and the discrimination that occured with the different races was aweful. But that was due to Palpatine and Vader.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    thesevegetables likes this.
  21. thesevegetables

    thesevegetables Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 11, 2012
    Well, sure, but this means that the Nazis were not evil. Hitler was. The KKK is not evil (hey, doesn't it even volunteer to maintain roads or something?). The racist leaders are. And the Jedi Order isn't good, it's just filled with lots of good people. Nope.
    I am the state/empire/senate/etc. The Empire is evil because of what it does.
     
  22. Darth_Kiryan

    Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2009
    It was a good idea that turned rotten. Of coruse, if you want to go through the whole EU, then the Sith have always created an Empire, so Empire = bad.
     
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  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Except for "Empress Teta's empire" which is, if not good, at least sympathetic enough for her to be an ally of the Jedi during the Great Hyperspace War.

    Of course, if you believe Jello, Imperial law declared all citizens, alien and human alike, equal under the law.

    Was there a source which explained how the Rights of Sentience, which was the Republic's equivalent, were repealed by the Empire?
     
  24. Darth_Kiryan

    Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2009
    Where does he say that. Would not mind reading this argument.
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    He said it here:

     
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