CT Empire=bad?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by darthbarracuda, Nov 14, 2012.

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  1. Attariel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    I was generalizing yes but the point is the system themselves without the people are not good or evil. That is determined by the leaders and participants.
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    This post said it best.
    Whether or not a system is "morally neutral in itself" some systems, combined with "human nature" inevitably go down the tubes.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  3. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I do not know why the empire was exactly bad.
  4. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Because GL, the "God" of the GFFA, said so.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  5. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    The design of the Empire was intended to parallel other dictatorships in our own world history. From terms such as "Imperial," "Empire," "Emperor," "Supreme Chancellor," and "Stormtroopers" to the costume designs of Darth Vader, Imperial TIE fighter pilots, and Stormtroopers we see a direct link to Hitler and other notorious dictators.

    Now if you do not consider dictatorships evil that is another point altogether.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  6. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

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    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    Did the Empire enslave the Wookies? If so, then that is not so good.
  7. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 7, 2012
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    Yes, the Empire was responsible for the enslavement of the Wookies among other races.
  8. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

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    Nov 7, 2012
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    Ok. That is one bad point for Sidious..... but it still makes you wonder how Vader is able to go along with an evil dictator like this after thinking that the jedi were bad.
  9. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Vader went along with it because the Jedi were gone and it isn't easy to stop being a Sith.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  10. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    why is it not easy to stop being a sith?
  11. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Because of what you've done and what the dark side does to you.
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  12. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3

    so it is kind of like drugs?
  13. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Kind of, yes.
  14. black_saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    They blew up Alderaan, Has anybody forgetten that?
    thesevegetables likes this.
  15. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    OH, but remember some say the Alderaanians brought their own destruction upon themselves for opposing the (il)legitimate-by-takeover government. In that view, Alderaan doesn't - doesn't count.
  16. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    the Rebels blew up the Death star. That also had people on it. And civilians, if you go by the EU
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Death Star was self-defence. Alderaan wasn't, but done because Dantooine was "too remote to make an effective demonstration"

    Imagine the whole thing scaled down, so it's the Emperor of America, who was President but declared himself Emperor. There's a rebellion seeking to "restore the Republic". There's a town whose mayor secretly supports the rebellion. The mayor's daughter is arrested, and told to say where the rebel base is or her home town is destroyed.

    Then, when an answer's given, the town is destroyed anyway because the location given for the base was "too remote".

    Not very justifiable.
    CT-867-5309 and DarthBoba like this.
  18. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Anybody on the Death Star is either a) in the military or b) wilingly placing themselves in danger. They're fair game and comparing them to civilians on Alderaan is ridiculous.
  19. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    True. But they are still people.
  20. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Your statement is implying that the only reason that the Galactic Empire was evil and that they needed to be defeated was the Death Star.........
  21. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
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    Umm, does that justify a war in which billions of galactic people will die. No, absoltuely not.....

    Picture 1-Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker is choking Antilles, who is a wartime enemy. Oh My God, the Allies were so evil. They killed the Nazi soldiers during WW2 (World War 2, World War Two)!!!!!! No offense, but that sounds so ridiclous. In war, people die and get killed, soldiers get killed during/in war, it's is very common........ However, Darth Vader was being very immoral and cruel, unfair, and unjust, because, regardless of whether or not the fact that Antilles was an enemy soldier, he was helpless and at his mercy, he should've been taken as a POW (prisorner of war). However, get over the fact that many nations, even the heroic Allied Powers, did some war crimes and killed unarmed Axis soldiers and troops..... Does that justify a war that costs billions of galactic lives??? No!!!!!!!

    [IMG]

    2. OMG, Darth Vader is torturing a POW, who is a rebel treasonous criminal, how horrible and terrible!!!! Not just sarcasm, torture is immoral and wrong, yet does that justify the galactic civil war???? By that logic, the Axis powers and all of the lives taken by the nations of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan during war and battles (invading other countries) was justified because the Americans/Allied powers did some bad things to prisorners. Get over it, both sides can commit atrocities, regardless of if a war is a just war or an unjust war!!!!!!!!

    3- If Leia and/or Bail Organa never rebelled, Alderaan would have survived, they did it to interragote and spite her........ Sure, a lot of innocent civilians (billions) died, but both sides do commit wartime atrocities, the Soviet Union army (allied troops and soldiers) massacred German civilians during WW2, which was wrong and evil, but in the long run, the cause of the Allied Powers was a just war.... Whether or not one side or the other side commits atrocities is irrelevant!!!!!!

    4-The only reason that Owen lars and beru lars died was because the rebels stole their imperial droids, if the rebels never waged the war on the galactic empire in the first place, the droids never would have been stolen, the Lars family lives..... Sure it was unjust and evil, they were innocent, unarmed civilians, who had no idea about what was going on, but remember my posts above???
  22. Death T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 1
    Other than the Jedi slaughter depicted in ROTS and the destruction of Alderan by the Death Star in ANH, you really don't see much of the Empire's oppression throughout the movies. Lucas may have done better to shine more light on this in the OT, but it's really not needed to know that the Empire is evil.

    The Empire was born from a bloody coup d'├ętat which directly targeted children and other Jedi. The Emperor secretly controlled both sides of a civil war which resulted in hundreds of thousands of casualties to enact his plan for galactic domination. It replaced democracy with dictatorship. The Empire used the Death Star to destroy an entire planet in mere seconds without flinching. Think about that. A whole planet. The whole world, gone. Just to set an example (and to punish Leia and make her talk, but they as well said they would have tried it out on another populated planet to demonstrate their authority anyway). That's more destruction than has ever been carried out by a man or a country in the real world in all history. You can't just say "other than the Death Star, what did they do?", like you can just easily dismiss planetary destruction as a means of control.

    The Storm Troopers mercilessly slaughtered the only family Luke ever had for some droids. The Empire is vainly destructive and genocidal. The EU may talk more about the Empire and all the bad stuff they've done, but just from what's shown in the movies you can infer it's a pretty bad government.

    I get what you mean though. As bad as the Empire is, they don't seem to be a totalitarian government which demands worship and intrudes in every aspect of everyday life like say, North Korea. They may not be that bad even in the worst places. But you can expect that, since it's a galactic empire, they don't have the materials or the manpower to ruthlessly rule the whole galaxy by martial law. The Empire rules the galaxy by fear (i.e. by the Death Star).

    But you really can't expect that places like Tatooine and Cloud City (both with seemingly little interference from the government) are representative of the Empire as a whole. Tatooine is a remote planet which even the Republic didn't bother with in the PT. It was so far out that the Republic didn't even bother to address the very open illegal slavery going on there. It's just a far out desert planet with a few farmers, aliens, gangs, and a couple small towns rife with criminal activity. It doesn't change much at all between episode 1 and 4. It's just an insignificant planet. Judging by Lando's remarks in ESB, Cloud City was also an exception to what most planets could expect from the Empire. Endor is a wild forest moon with nothing but tribal teddy bears.

    I haven't read any of the EU (which probably addresses this), but I bet the Empire was more present and intrusive (all around more evil and douchey) in the more prominent planets and cities in the galaxy, e.g. Coruscant.
    Last edited by Death T, Nov 24, 2012
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  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4

    The USA came to power by commiting genocide of the Native American Indians, just like the Galactic Empire came to power by starting the Clone Wars, with the CIS Seperatists, so, does that justify a rebellion, by your flawed logic, no offense???

    We never really saw much of how the Galactic Empire/Sith Empire ruled the galaxy for the most part, the story was mostly focused on other minor plot points and details, it didn't devote a lot of time to that, only a few planets, we never saw other more populated places like Coruscant that would be more affected by the reign/rule of the supposedly "evil" Galactic Empire!!!!!
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Nov 24, 2012
  24. Death T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 1
    Sure it does. The Native Americans had every right and reason to resist foreign occupation from Europe, and subsequently America by its westward expansion. That's history now, though. The time between ROTS and ANH is only twenty years. The Empire controls a whole galaxy by completely destroying entire planets. Darth Sidious is at least just as evil but infinitely more powerful than Hitler could ever hope to be. I'm not trying to justify what the U.S did to conquer America, but I don't really see how that makes what the Empire has done any less evil.

    Precisely my point. The places we saw in the movies were probably the least effected by the Empire. I didn't mean to make any heavy assumptions about what life is like in the Empire's more prominent areas, but one can at least infer that the government there is more present and intrusive. Judging by the city wide celebrations (in what looks like Coruscant) at the end of ROTJ, it seems they were pretty happy to see the Empire gone.
  25. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    The USA never should have existed, I strongly believe. We came to power through unjust means/reasons, I'm am not joking or being sarcastic here, but what's is done in the past is done and over with, it's is absolutley pointless to start a war and make people's families suffer (star wars is about war, the war against the rebels and the empire), over something that had happened in the past...........

    The time between ROTS, and ANH, was not twenty years. No source has ever confirmed how much/many time that it was!!!!!

    Destroying entire planet(s)??? Just Alderaan was destroyed, and that was to spite a rebel terrorist treasonous criminal traitor, and to interrogate her, and by her, I mean, Princess Leia organa amidala Skywalker!!!!

    Causing stormtroopers's (and rebel troopers's too) families to suffer by starting the Galactic Civil War to avenge the Darth Sidious/the Emperor Palpatine for starting the Clone Wars is the same analogy as the USA and the Native American Indians...........
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