Saga Empire or Rebellion?

The Rebellion.

I'd choose chaotic freedom over orderly tyranny any day.

 

Ok, I picked the Rebellion especially when comes to the morale ground. Also for the fact that compared to the other factions in the saga they seemed to be the most good of the good guys, they weren't manipulated like the rest.

 

So I'm checking in, but not sure I will participate in this discussion yet again. Maybe this time I'll write one huge post.

I'm an Imperial, through and through.

I don't like the Rebels. I don't like the Republic much (but I prefer them to the Rebellion, at least). And, as I have discovered, it's entirely a matter of perspective and personal opinion. I have now found that I can defend 99% of the Empire just by looking from a different angle or using unknowns to my advantage, just as I could defend 99% of the Republic that way.


(Also, at my last check, the DS-I had over a million personnel & the Executor had 43,000+ personnel.)

 

Slightly off topic, but it's a question I've had.

Lucas has said before that he used the Vietnam War as a template for the original movie.

Does that mean that the U.S. is the Empire?

Anyways, back on topic, I'm a supporter of the Rebellion. The Empire is just over-the-top evil to me, and I couldn't support them.


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Really? Even though he'd overseen the Republic descend into civil war? He'd overseen 4 trials of the TF from which they got away scott-free. Even though there are rumours the bureaucrats he still employs and relies upon are in the pay of the TF? Are people really taken in by form over content that much?

..I suppose that explains quite a bit, actually, looking around...

 

You can bet that Palpatine accomplished quite a lot of positive stuff too, it probably just wasn't emphasized in the films because IMO it's kinda self-explanatory. Star Wars doesn't necessarily spell everything out for the viewer like LOTR (not that that's a bad thing, just different).

But keep in mind, if I'm right the separatist crisis had been going on for years. To the public, it would appear impressive politically for Palpatine to have avoided war for that long.

 

The Empire is evil. IMO it is unwise to try to argue against facts that are stated explicitly in the opening crawl.

 

Yeah, but who is the focus of the film? The Rebellion. Of course to them the Empire is going to be evil.

Why should I listen to an obviously biased source when I can make my own judgements and head-canon based on what we see and what we don't see?

 

Because headcanon is not official canon, and is just as biased.

 

Well then we can all just get along.

 

Definitely. I prefer the Empire.

 

The Galactic Empire. They have better toys such as the Death Star, Star Destroyers ect.

 

I prefer the Republic, even though it was corrupted in the end. If I had to choose between Rebellion and Empire only I would choose the Rebellion. However, my issue is that I'm not really a fighter. I would find working in a fighting organisation difficult. In the Republic, before the Sith started messing with it, I think I could make a good contribution in a peaceful way as a teacher or a scientist or an engineer.

 

The Empire needs scientists, teachers, and engineers...

 

Yeah, but if I taught the wrong thing or refused to repair a torture device or research a deadly weapon it'd be the spice mines of Kessel for me. Give me the Republic any day!

 

This is why I come into these threads - who said that's all a multi-trillion strong Empire needs? They'd need energy sources, medical supplies, ships, communications technology, defence technology... civil engineers, electrical engineers...
Some people work on weapons. Not everyone.

But eh.

 

The young George Lucas strikes me as an idealist and considering the political turmoil of the 1970's I'm rather confident that he used the dictatorships of Central and South America (supported by the US) as a blueprint for the Empire, although the use of British actors for the "Empire" gave the story the context of the American Revolutionary war, too.

I will never get over the fact that in 1979 "fact followed fantasy", i.e. when the Nicaraguan Sandinistas had finally driven out their awful dictator Somoza (I recommend watching Under Fire) they assembled on the stairs of Managua's central church and the whole scenery did look a lot like the medal ceremony at the end of ANH.

On the other hand, Lucas probably rejected the socialism practised in the USSR. In the deleted Anchorhead scenes Biggs informs Luke that the Empire has started to nationalize commerce in the central systems, i.e. abolishes private ownership. Thus the Empire bears resemblances to the USSR.

It has been mentioned earlier here, that the Empire efficiently persecuted criminals. But the one question that should be answered first is how creatures like Jabba the Hutt could rise to power. Apparently Imperial taxation on some products (spice?) had gotten so high, that smuggling these instead became an alternative.
And given the greed of some regional governors I wouldn't be surprised if these had good relations with the criminals.

Biggs also hinted stories about crimes against humanity he had heard. I'm rather certain that even little offenses were punished harshly by the Empire and eventually a lot of people just couldn't take it anymore to see all their civil rights being revoked and being turned into "slaves for the greater glory of the Empire" (Biggs).

The Empire turned into a political system which privileged a few at the expense of all the others. As such it had to be fought and destroyed, IMHO.

 

To be entirely honest, the Biggs quote is the only unique to an Empire part of that. It's not as though taxation or restriction of illicit material is unique to the Galactic Empire, for even modern day countries have such issues. Socialism, not necessarily unique nor bad. GL may have followed that model, but it is a matter of perspective.

Likewise with believing the Empire was corrupted and supported crime, even under the table. There's no proof of such. Or that "little" offenses were punished harshly, barring Darth Vader. But even then I feel perhaps everything is not entirely unjustified.

The thing I don't understand about that quote - I hardly see everyone being driven like slaves, left without a choice in the world. Luke and Biggs had the chance and choice to join the Imperial military, to leave Tatooine as they wished to pursue a military career. It's not like they were conscripted and forced to serve. They weren't being forced to work on a moisture farm to fund some Moff's spice habit. They could go around the planet freely and shop, like at Tosche Station, they could go to cantinas freely... They really weren't slaves.

My two cents.

 

Well, Biggs was a native of Tatooine who had been to "the big city" and reported back to his "simpleton" friends on Tatooine. And the whole conversation revolved around the fact that Tatooine wasn't affected, yet.

Regarding drafting:

Biggs: Luke, I'm not going to wait for the Empire to draft me into service. The Rebellion is spreading and I want to be on the right side -- the side I believe in.

Luke: I won't be drafted into the Imperial Starfleet that's for sure...

 

I don't remember that happening in ANH, Lt. Hija . Is that the one deleted scene?

 

Yes, the sequence was edited out because Lucas felt it slowed the pace of the film too much.

 

That's why it is familiar. I'm going to be a bit of a stickler and say my usual "deleted scenes? EU? shows? Eh."

 

Not sure what you are trying to say, but it's de facto George Lucas Canon according to which deleted scenes from the film are canon unless these contradict depictions / suggestions / concepts in the actual films.