Empire Strikes Back Question

Discussion in 'Albuquerque, NM' started by SithLordAaron, May 24, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SithLordAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 3
    Today I left work early because I was sick. I laid on the couch and watched ESB. Now here's the question. Yoda tells Luke he doesn't need his weapons. Then he tells him the only thing in there is what he takes with him. So if Luke didn't take his lightsaber in the tree, would Vader never have had his saber either? What do ya'll think?
  2. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    I believe if he went in without his saber, he might have just come out knowing that the person he feared the most (Darth Vader) was his father.
    Maybe I should watch it again though, just to reformulate my ideas :)

    Chromium

  3. Rintor Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    The point of the lesson was that it takes more than just lightsabers and blasters to defeat evil, which Luke figures out eventually and turns Vader. If Luke had tried to beat vader with the lightsaber he would have only ended up destroying himself by turning to the Darkside. Luke seems to really realize this when he cuts off Vader's hand in the final battle of ROTJ, and Luke realizes how much he has in common with his enemy. That realization also makes him realize that his enemy(Vader) has a lot in common with him, which is the goodness left deep inside. If Vader had truly been evil he would have destroyed Luke and Leia, but he never did. The only thing that can defeat the darkside is light.
  4. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    I differ from your opinion, Rintor.
    You say that the point of the lesson was that lightsabers and blasters won't defeat evil, but what immediately does Luke run off and do? Go have a big lightsaber fight with Vader! If this is the case, then he learned nothing from this lesson. You also say if he tried to beat Vader with his saber, he would only end up destroying himself and turning to the darkside, but that's exactly what he tries to do, and in the process gets his hand cut off. In the cave too, he uses his saber to chop off Vader's head.
    I also differ in the opinion that had Vader not been completely evil he would not have destroyed Luke or Leia. First of all he didn't know about Leia until the final confrontation with Luke. Second of all, I don't feel it was ever his intention to kill Skywalker ever. Only just to turn him.
    In Episode IV, he didn't realize it was Skywalker in the trench until after. In Ep. V his plans all centered around freezing him in carbonite and keeping him alive, just in cryo stasis. Then in ROTJ, when Luke turns himself in, he doesn't go into a rage and try to kill him, he calmly takes him back to his Master so they both can turn him.
    And yes, while it is true that in ROTJ Skywalker did turn Vader, this was only after additional counciling from Yoda and Obi-Wan, and after Palpatine tries to turn him. Then when Palpatine fails, he tries to kill him with lightning. Only at this point does Luke see the way to end it.
    It's easy to simplify the whole situation into one of plain good and evil, but in this situation there are shades of each. And although the light side may have prevailed in the end, that was only after nearly every light side Jedi was eliminated. You'll see in Episode III especially that somedays the dark side prevails. It's like a cycle.
    BTW I'm not trying to provoke a direct argument here, just open up a line of discussion :)

    Chromium
  5. Rintor Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    No,you misundertood my opinion.

    The lesson is meant to teach Luke that it takes more than lightsabers and blasters to defeat the darkside, and if he tries to defeat the Darkside with those weapons he will only destroy himself. In ESB Luke rushes off and fights Vader and loses his hand because of it. Luke doesn't learn the lesson until the final battle of ROTJ when he sees that by destroying Vader he will only destroy himself. Luke would have become a Sith, and as we have seen the Sith take on new identities and destroy their old ones like Vader. Vader even says himself (as Obi-wan did) that Anakin was dead and only Vader remained.

    True, Vader didn't know who Leia was, but we have to ask ourselves, "Why didn't Vader ever go to Tatooine to look for Luke?
    Was it becuase he really didn't want the Emperor to raise Luke?". Obviously, Vader's first place to search for his children would be Tatooine. It's not like Vader didn't know that Tatooine exsisted. If Vader was truly evil, wouldn't he have wanted to give Luke to the Emperor before Obi-wan had a chance to teach him? Vader had to have guessed that Obi-wan would have taught Luke so that he could defeat Vader and the Emperor.

    But that's just my opinion. ;)
  6. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Before this topic gets too heated i am going to interject. The idea was that by taking his weapons he also takes his fear and agression with him. You clearly see in the fight when luke lets go after he perries Vader, and takes off his head. Because he used his fear and hate the kill the apperition he was clearly vulnerable to the dark side. In a real duel this would be what would bring him totally to the dark side. As a result he failed the cave of evil test. the purpose of putting Lukes face in vaders mask, shows that he failed and that he himself would become Vader.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.