Empire vs. Rebellion (ver 2.1) Back where it belongs!!!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Grand Moff Jerjerrod, Nov 25, 1999.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jedi Jim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 1
    ToP:

    1. *You* said there were too many persons for a single person to rule when you offered us your estimate of a galactic population. I just agreed with you, and pointed out the logical implications of your statement.

    2. If the Emperor doesn't rule the Empire, then it isn't an Empire. There is no legislative branch, therefore all administrators/governors rule according to executive order, i.e., the rules the Emperor makes. You can call it an autocracy, monarchy, oligarchy, whatever you like, but the fact remains that the Emperor was the sole power in the galaxy, with no system of checks or balances to countermand his orders.

    3. You are relying on the introduction to the novelization of A New Hope, ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster, for your contention that the Emperor was a recluse. Let's hope you can come up with something better than a single clause as support for this position. GL?s development of Palpatine?s character as a Sith Lord/conniving political insider in TPM belies any suggestion that the Palpatine we see in RotJ was a figurehead who had been taken advantage of by corrupt underlings. He seemed remarkably informed about the Rebellion?s movements in both RotJ and ESB.

    4. I didn't say representative governments were short-lived, or even that non-representative governments were short-lived. I said that non-representative governments which sacrifice human rights for the sake of "efficiency" (i.e., totalitarian regimes) historically have fallen to revolutionaries. Read before you respond.

    5. I'm glad that your college literature class included The Prince. Everyone should read it, and hopefully realize it was an amoral treatise offered for the limited purpose of uniting Rennaissance Italy under a single leader. Macchiaveli himself was an ardent proponent of democracy and human rights.

    6. Your Woodrow Wilson example is not on point. We are dealing with how a single government polices its citizens, not the conduct of soldiers in open war between separate regimes (although a leader is responsible for that, too). If a president, or a governor, or a mayor, or a police chief, knows that police officers are systematically executing suspects, and does nothing to stop it, he is responsible. The key issue is the leader?s duty to keep informed, and his responsibility to take action to remedy injustice.

    7. You really shouldn't rely so heavily on the "But he didn't know" argument. If he's that clueless, he shouldn't be Emperor. If he's not responsible enough to keep himself informed, he shouldn't be Emperor. If he intentionally keeps himself in the dark, he shouldn't be Emperor. And if his job description doesn't include taking care of the needs of the people he rules, he is not a leader.

    8. Even if the only requirement for a leader is that he keep his people united, the Emperor is still a dismal failure: the galactic citizenry was so fragmented a small segment was able to mount a successful revolution that deposed him. So much for fear?s efficacy as a uniting force.

    9. I can't recall the last time the U.S. failed to repulse an invading force because its military was too weak from all this democracy.

    ---------------------------
    "Fear can only prevail when victims are ignorant of the facts." -Thomas Jefferson
  2. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    ---quote---
    1. *You* said there were too many persons for a single person to rule when you offered us your estimate of a galactic population. I just agreed with you, and pointed out the logical implications of your statement.
    -----------

    No, we said that it is necessary to put things into perspective. The destruction and/or terrorisation of entire planets seems heinous and absolutely reprehensible to we, the terrestrial inhabitants of nations that do not span entire planets, let alone a galaxy. We stated simply that the scale of galactic civilisation made these heinous actions much less significant than otherwise implied.

    And it is important to note that representative governments become less and less effective the larger they become. Evidenced by the decadence into which the Galactic Republic had fallen when the Emperor swept it away and replaced it with the New Order.

    ---quote---
    2. If the Emperor doesn't rule the Empire, then it isn't an Empire. There is no legislative branch, therefore all administrators/governors rule according to executive order, i.e., the rules the Emperor makes. You can call it an autocracy, monarchy, oligarchy, whatever you like, but the fact remains that the Emperor was the sole power in the galaxy, with no system of checks or balances to countermand his orders.
    -----------

    Patently false. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a monarchy, and yet Queen Elizabeth II does not ?rule? the country in the sense that you are using the word.

    Furthermore, there *is * an Imperial legislative branch---the Imperial Senate.

    ?Now, now,? you cry. ?The Senate was disbanded! It is nonexistent!?

    False. By the time of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, the Imperial Senate was operational again (cf. ?Hello, Bespin, Good-bye!? from Marvel Comics).

    Yes, the Emperor was the ultimate authority within the Empire. But per the *canon * novelisation of A NEW HOPE, he shut himself away, and was uninvolved with the day-to-day operations of the Empire.

    ---quote---
    3. You are relying on the introduction to the novelization of A New Hope, ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster, for your contention that the Emperor was a recluse. Let's hope you can come up with something better than a single clause as support for this position. GL?s development of Palpatine?s character as a Sith Lord/conniving political insider in TPM belies any suggestion that the Palpatine we see in RotJ was a figurehead who had been taken advantage of by corrupt underlings. He seemed remarkably informed about the Rebellion?s movements in both RotJ and ESB.
    -----------

    The introduction is canon; there need be no further support for it: It stands unless directly contradicted by something from one of the films. Given the Emperor?s characterisation, one may conclude that the Emperor was merely giving the impression of being manipulated, but that is a matter of personal taste. The statement still stands.

    ---quote---
    4. I didn't say representative governments were short-lived, or even that non-representative governments were short-lived. I said that non-representative governments which sacrifice human rights for the sake of "efficiency" (i.e., totalitarian regimes) historically have fallen to revolutionaries. Read before you respond.
    -----------

    We read your comment. We understood it. And we pointed out that whilst they have generally fallen, their relative longevity seems to indicate that they were more successful forms of government.

    ---quote---
    5. I'm glad that your college literature class included The Prince. Everyone should read it, and hopefully realize it was an amoral treatise offered for the limited purpose of uniting Rennaissance Italy under a single leader. Macchiaveli himself was an ardent proponent of democracy and human rights.
    -----------

    We are not in college, Mister. Do not assume that we are.

    Amoral or not, it is still an accurate and intelligently done assessment of politics. Machiavelli?s personal standing is really irrelevant in this matter; would it be pertinent if we pointed
  3. Casta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 4
    According to what I know hitherto, Machiavelli was far more interested in building a more lasting government than touting lofty ideals. The two premises of democracy are economic and social stability.
  4. Jedi Jim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 1
    1. That is not a reason to choose a form of government which ab initio provides less freedom.

    2. The entire canon argument seems ridiculous when you are relying upon a comic book as support for a socio-political debate. As you acknowledge, the Emperor's TPM and RotJ characterizations suggest his recluse persona was a charade, and therefore contradict that portion of the ANH novelization intro.

    Unlike the Queen of England, the Emperor is far from a figurehead head of state.

    3. Whether involved or not, a leader is still responsible.

    4. The OR lasted longer than recorded history. That's straight from the ANH novelization intro.

    5. "The Prince" was intended as a blueprint for establishing an ordered nation amidst chaos and rivalry, not for ruling one. Macchiavelli supported democracy as a means to economic and social stability, as Casta points out.

    6. Thank you.

    7. I don't know of any reference that says the Emperor didn't know about or have the intent to destroy planets supporting the Rebellion, but even if he wasn't informed until ex post facto, he did commission and fund a planet-killer. He is also responsible for his subordinate's actions. Besides, it seems hard to argue the Emperor was all that displeased with how the Death Star was used - he started building another one soon after the first was destroyed.

    8. Darth may have killed him, but Luke turned Darth.

    9. I don't know enough about the precise structure of the NR government to respond completely, and I have no clue who or what Moffel is, or why she/he/it is in a handbasket. However, the necessity of reaching consenus in a democratic (or republican) government should not be entirely dismissed as a useless popularity contest. The Empire simply trades displays of force for political skills, which can be just as wasteful. If the Imperial form of government is so effective, why does it founder when it isn't winning wars or conquering? That seems like an inherently self-destructive entity.

    ----------------------
    "I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves, and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion." -Thomas Jefferson
  5. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Moffell is the place where all bad ideas go.They are written on Moffpaper and collected by the Moffship.They are taken to Moffell where they are tortured by Moff demons and fed to the Moff dogs.

    Say hello to Trioculous,Ken and Triclops,residents of Moffell.
  6. Hunter Of Winds Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 1999
    star 5
  7. Casta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 4
    The Rebel Alliance has long declared itself the New Republic by the time of X-wing books.

    Let's temporarily acknowledge the legitimacy of this proclamation. Curiously, this declaration of statehood has greatly undermined Rebel Alliance's original intention to liberate the galaxy from the purportedly tyrannical Imperial regime. The New Republic's military campaign into the Core Worlds was an act of pure aggression of one sovereign state over another, under the pretext of emancipation of the Core Worlds.

    The NR's grand push into the Core can never be justified. There wasn't even a decent casus belli.
  8. howlrunner22 Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 1998
    star 5
    It feels grrreat to be back in this thread...

    =Quote=

    The New Republic's military campaign into the Core Worlds was an act of pure aggression of one sovereign state over another, under the pretext of emancipation of the Core Worlds.

    The NR's grand push into the Core can never be justified. There wasn't even a decent casus belli.

    ======

    If memory serves, I wrote a small article on that. I'll try and dig it up.....
  9. howlrunner22 Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 1998
    star 5
    I found it. A sterling piece of propaganda if I do say so myself.....

    Some of the rebels who were there claimed it to be their greatest victory. For the Empire, it was our darkest day. Few who were there could forget that day. It was the day when the Emperor died. And it was the start of devolution. The bureacracy was shattered. The military was crippled without a central command. The Empire turned from a glorious jewel to a logistical nightmare overnight. We were dying, and the Alliance knew it.

    Days after the Endor Debacle, Mon Mothma gathered with her highest adivsors and proclaimed an end to the Alliance to Restore the Republic and declared a new sovereign nation. She wrote the Decleration of the New Republic.

    quote:

    Let the stars sing!

    The copy of the Decleration was transmitted all over the HoloNet. There was now another official government in the galaxy. The Rebellion was over. But the war, to this 'New Republic', was far from it.

    After the days following Endor, the Imperial Fleets were thrown into disarray, after years of trying to track the straggling Alliance Fleet, the Empire consolidated their forces and fled to the Core. It was then, at this period, that the New Republic, who had accomplished their goal of successfully waging and winning a rebellion began to strike the Empire as one sovereign nation to another. This is untolerable. The Empire was suddenly and viciously attacked at many key systems from various vectors. Naturally, after successfully declaring a new state, which is the natural cause for rebellion, the war should be technically over. And since of the total disarray faced by the Navy and Army, no new attacks could be theoretically planned. With no higher authority, no furthur attack could be blamed on the Empire and all consequences of furthur action must rest solely on the aggrivators of the conflict. The New Republic.

    Their annexations, or as they would put it 'liberation', of the Core Worlds were unjust and barbaric. Without provacation and attacks from the Empire, these attack were not justified and could be considered an act of war. This then prompted the bloody Borderland Campagin as the New Republic continued to push towards the Imperial Core on a bloody path to conqeust and galactic domination which the Empire reels to this day. How can a fleet of 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers be reduced to 50 in the period of twenty years. Simply, it can't. It cannot by itself, but with unprovoked military aggression from an enemy state, yes.

    From one sovereign state to another, the New Republic launched bloody campaigns to bring the heads of their fallen enemies, enemies which they created.

    All grievances should have been settled with the decleration of the New Republic. They had settled their goals, they had restored their Republic and they had killed their mortal enemy, the Emperor. And yet they pushed towards the Core. Why? Total Galactic Domination. That could be the only reason. And that cost billions, nay trillions, of innocent Imperial citizens. Of all the attrocities of the war, the ones commited unprovoked by the New Republic was the one whose blood stained so few. The terrorists of the galaxy. The New Republic.

    Yes, some of you may raise the issue of the 'Why We Fight the Empire' document released by the New Republic after Thrawn's Campaign. It was prehaps too late for that. They had driven the Empire from the Core Worlds and forced them into the unhospitable Deep Core and Outer Rim. Plagued by moral concerns, they only explained why they would want to attack the Empire again and again, after they did so.

    The War after Endor was over. The War following that was the New Republic's. A War which none of the Empire's could forget. None of which could have been prepared for. None of which had survived.

    War Crimes? The only war crimes were those commited by these 'freedom fighters'. And of what freedom? It was yours already.

    Join the Empire today and together, we can repel these barbarous hordes and rid the galaxy of the New Republic's blight of terrorism
  10. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Well, I am one of the most loyal Imperials around. This was not always true, though. Emperor Palpatine was an awful leader, and an embarressment to the Empire. We Imperials are not after evil power, as Palpatine would have you think, we are after order. OK, I think the destruction of Alderaan was a little excessive...no, very excessive. If the Empire had been ruled MY way, concentrating more on the order of things, and less on causing a lot of pain, everything would have ended happy for us poor Imperials. Now, it is impossible to rebiuld ourselves into a real government, because our supposed merciful Rebel friends are constantly trying to wipe us out! It's discusting, you hypocritical Rebels!
  11. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    ==Emperor Palpatine was an awful leader, and an embarressment to the Empire.

    Incorrect. The Galactic Emperor * was * the Galactic Empire. More than Louis XIV, he can say ?L?etat c?est moi.? His death heralded the end of the New Order---as the ESSENTIAL CHRONOLOGY put it, ?No one but the Emperor could rule the Empire.?

    ==We Imperials are not after evil power, as Palpatine would have you think, we are after order.

    Apparently, you are not an Imperial at all, if you believe that the Emperor was pursuing a goal of ?evil power.? You neglect that the Emperor was a Sith Master---and the Order of the Sith was a schismatic faction of the Order of the Jedi. Even though the means were different, the ends were the same: Order.

    ==OK, I think the destruction of Alderaan was a little excessive?no, very excessive.

    We notice that you are neglecting the fact that the destruction of Alderaan was an action ordered by the Grand Moff Tarkin on his own initiative; the Emperor was not notified of his intent until ex post facto. Furthermore, it is not by any means ?very excessive?---no, the destruction of Alderaan is, in the size and scope of the Galactic Empire, no more violent than Brigadier-General Sherman?s destruction of Atlanta (except the Federal commander evacuated Atlanta prior to incinerating it).

    ==If the Empire had been ruled MY way, concentrating more on the order of things, and less on causing a lot of pain, everything would have ended happy for us poor Imperials.

    Oh, really? Strange, the practitioners of your credo has only led the shattered remnants of the Empire into defeat after defeat---nothing compared to the resounding victories of the Galactic Empire.

    Observe:

    Under the Emperor, the Rebel Alliance was constantly losing. It won its first victory only immediately before the Battle of Yavin, and was powerless to fight the dreaded Imperial Starfleet. The Empire was invincible under the Emperor?s guidance---decidedly the opposite of the impression given by the majority of the Expanded Universe, which portrays the Imperials as stupid, lazy, and slow.

    No, indeed, under the Emperor, the Empire was very much the cold, methodical, precise machine---effective and virtually unstoppable. Notice the crispness, the almost fanatical loyalty of the Empire?s soldiers.

    Then the Emperor died. His successors tried to emulate him, but only Mme. Director Isard and Grand Admiral Thrawn were able to bring back the invincibility of the Empire, and they were only in power for less than half the time between RETURN OF THE JEDI and DARK EMPIRE. (The Emperor Reborn is not mentioned because he introduced the Dark Empire, which was a fundamentally different entity than the Galactic Empire.)

    Notice that Mme. Director Isard and Grand Admiral Thrawn were unconcerned with politicking and were perfectly prepared to employ cruelty when it was necessary. They were prepared to employ whatever means were necessary to protect the welfare of the galaxy-at-large.

    On the other hand, the practitioners of your proposed policy---kindness instead of ruthlessness---Lord Jax, Xandel Carivus, Gilad Pellæon---have only managed to undo all that the Emperor, Mme. Director Isard, Grand Admiral Thrawn, and the Emperor Reborn had succeeded at.

    ==Now, it is impossible to rebiuld ourselves into a real government, because our supposed merciful Rebel friends are constantly trying to wipe us out! It's discusting, you hypocritical Rebels!

    Wrong again. The Imperial Remnant, for better or for worse, is a real government. Its independence and sovereignty are formally recognised by the New Republic.



    Hail to the Emperor.
  12. Cyclonetrooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 2
    I think that after the peace treaty, Pellaeon regained a lot of terriotory. Otherwise Fey'lya would have crushed them lon ago. So at the least, they would need 10-30% of the galaxy exlucing the Deep Core, 7500+ ISDs and such, as well as Imperial Jedi (Miat Temm comes to mind). And they're getting even larger, now that the Vong invasion has people begging to be let in. Should make an interesting tale on how Pellaeon rebuilt the Empire in his own image.
  13. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    ==I think that after the peace treaty, Pellaeon regained a lot of terriotory.

    Evidence? None. As of SPECTER OF THE PAST, the Imperial Remnant had eight moffs, indicating eight sectors. As of DARK TIDE II: RUIN, the Imperial Remnant has eight moffs, indicating eight sectors. The ESSENTIAL CHRONOLOGY makes no mention of any territorial gains; this is an unsubstantiated claim.

    ==Otherwise Fey?lya would have crushed them lon ago.

    Another unsubstantiated claim. Chief Fey?lya has only been chief of state for a short period of time---not nearly enough to marshal the forces of the New Republic to attack so resilient a foe: The Third Reich shouldn?t have had any difficulty taking Great Britain, but the concentration of strength found therein made it a very, very tough nut to crack.

    ==So at the least, they would need 10-30% of the galaxy exlucing the Deep Core, 7500+ ISDs and such, as well as Imperial Jedi (Miat Temm comes to mind).

    Once again, you are making statements that lack evidence. 10--30% is by no means a reasonable estimate of the Remnant?s territorial holdings. It holds eight sectors and about 200 Star Destroyers, per explicit statements in SPECTER OF THE PAST and VISION OF THE FUTURE. Furthermore, the current regime, with its apologists and neo-Imperials, would in all likelihood shy away from affiliating itself with Jedi of any sort, considering the connotations of Lord Vader and his ilk.

    ==And they're getting even larger, now that the Vong invasion has people begging to be let in.

    Again, evidence? Unless there is something to this extent in BALANCE POINT, this is yet another unsubstantiated claim. If Chief Fey?lya is a reliable indicator of general feeling, the New Republic still has hard feelings toward the Imperial Remnant.

    ==Should make an interesting tale on how Pellaeon rebuilt the Empire in his own image.

    Admiral Pellæon did not rebuild the Empire in his own image. He simply took a rather pithy fleet from another incompetent fleet commander, and took some territory in the virtually worthless Outer Rim, then instituted a pseudo-parliamentary system that placed authority in the moffs? inept hands. A few years later, he simply ignored his own institutions and assumed governmental authority, as well as military.



    Hail to the Emperor.
  14. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more....

    Surely there remains something to be said that those of us who have already participated have not said.

    Surely there is someone new who has not yet had the opportunity to voice his or her opinions.

    Don't be shy, ladies and gentlemen. Come one, come all. Let the clash of the titans resume!

  15. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    I definitely vote for the Rebellion. However, that doesn't mean that I am voting for the New Republic (or the Old). I fully support the Rebellion's attempt to destroy the gang of murderers, kidnappers, and robbers known as "the Empire". But what the Rebels should have done after winning is to disband and simply go home and everyone mind his own business. We don't need planetary governments or (even worse) a huge galactic government. The evil Empire sprouted from the seed of the supposedly benevolent Old Republic. All civil government is a very unnecessary evil.

    Signed,
    An Anarcho-Capitalist for a Free Galaxy
  16. Casta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 4
    Binary Sunset: If one goes by that which you have expressed, the Roman Empire would be equally awful.

    Supremacy, comrades. Imperial Supremacy is the mantra. Il me semble...ainsi...some of the debaters here are mixing the definition of suzerainty and supremacy.



    I personally regard this thread as the Great Debate of the Literature Forum.

    I hope that I could have done more, but currently I'm worn, effete and uninspired after rounds of scholastic debate this semester. With the winter holiday ahead, I might rejoin the fray.
  17. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    The entire Empire was not composed of kidnappers,robbers and murderers.Unfortunately alot of the people who had the most influence were.




  18. Casta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 4
    Anarcho-capitalist ==> the futility of utopia

    That degrades those individualistic "freedom-fighters" to a mob of anarchists and nihilists, yes?

    Or have you been reading Ayn Rand, Monsieur?
  19. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    *looks around* Been awhile since I *tried* to read this. But I read the last page and GO ToP!! You have my respect!!


    Long Live the Empire!
    The New Order Forever!
    Down with the Republic!
  20. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    No.The Rebels had to overthrow the Empire because apparently they had an ultimate overlord,who didn't care about what the overseers of his Empire did,as long as it didn't conflict with his interests.

    Unfortunately many noble Imperials weren't in a position to change the Empire,or were to scared to.(I would love to be an Inquisitor,everyone's a traitor!)
  21. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    One wonders how this got back up here.

    *cough cough*
  22. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Yes...one wonders.....

    Here's a question,if the Emperor used the Naboo incident to help gain the Supreme Chancellorship,doesn't that mean that his Empire is was partly established on an illegal basis?
  23. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    I'm curious Tears....How do you see Palpatine?

    C'mon.Take us on a tour of the Dark Side.;)
  24. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    No.

    Senator Palpatine did nothing illegal when he convinced Her Highness to call for a vote of no-confidence in Supreme Chancellor Valorum.

    There was no impropriety when he was nominated to succede his former ally to the supreme chancellary.

    There was nothing illegal about Senator Palpatine's assumption of the office.

    Of course, one might argue that because Lord Sidious suckered the Trade Federation into blockading Naboo in the first place, there was some impropriety...

    ...*BUT* at no point did the Senate ever finally decide that the Trade Federation's actions were actually illegal.

    Indeed, Viceroy Gunray's comment at the beginning of the movie clinches it: "As you know, our blockade is perfectly legal."

    At no point was it established that the behaviour of the Trade Federation was illegal, but Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, acting in the best interests of the State and of law and order, forced the truculent merchants to surrender to quasi-army, so as to prevent them from carrying out further aggressive actions of nebulous legality.

    Once again, the future Emperor takes actions to protect the interests of the galaxy-at-large, even at the expense of a privileged few.





    No wonder the New Republic churns out so much propaganda---we can see why one could get a kick out of this sort of thing.
  25. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    lol.....

    Okay,but the troop invasion was illegal without a treaty.

    Sideous(who is no doubt Palpatine)ordered that illegal invasion,and then tried to force her to sign the treaty.

    Palpatine,then made sure the senate would stay bogged down in procedure,and not act on the illegal invasion which he ordered.The fact that the senate would not do anything about the invasion made Amidala decide to call for a vote of no confidence in Supreme Chancellor Valorum.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.