Empire vs. Rebellion (ver 2.1) Back where it belongs!!!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Grand Moff Jerjerrod, Nov 25, 1999.

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  1. King Darunia the 4th Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    I've always found the idea of being a smuggler appealing, ya know, working both sides kinda thing. I dont know how relevant that is to this topic, but oh well.
  2. howlrunner22 Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 1998
    star 5
    When you speak of the "countless other worlds destroyed by the Empire", I then ask you what about the countless others destroyed by the rebellion?

    Your fleet destroys what they call "Imperial Military Posistions", but to what extent is that true? Ackbar uses blatant terror and threats upon heavily populated and under defended planets such as Corulag and Alsalkan whose defence forces have been stripped due to malicious hit and run attacks by your fighters to cow them into submissions. Face it, in a military, fear and power are what holds the reins of power in place, not rust and engine tape. And what of Kyp Durron's sentencing for his murder of billions of Imperial citizens? He enters a crumbling old temple for less than ten minutes and he is supposed to be redeemed? I think not.

    You claim to hold the ideals of the Old Republic close to you. And yet, we see the Old Republic, supreme force of the galaxy with no one to oppose them, build up a fleet of two hundred dreadnoughts which they claim to be a peacekeeping fleet. Imagine, two hundred of the most advanced warships in the galaxy. Is that really a tool of peace, or a symbol of fear to echo across the galaxy?
  3. NIGHTxRIDER Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    The Empire all the way. This is coming from a man who Gin makes mean. I couldn't be with the Rebellion even if I chose to, it wouldn't be long before I'd be scheming to get to the top.

    "THE MAN WHO LAUGHS"
  4. Grand Moff Jerjerrod Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 3
    The official count is as stands:

    (E-r-N)
    14-13-3

    GMJ?
  5. Tenebrae Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 1999
    star 1
    Well I have to say that frequently, brash, unbased and unrequired assumptions are the road to easy fame or ruin.

    The fact that large numbers of rebels seem to think that the so-called writer Stackpole can actually do anything other waste paper is true. Both of you (SO and JG) admit to liking Stackpole's books, so I simply exaggerated the truth. The style of his books... But lets not go into that here.

    What evidence have you to supoort your claim SO that other planers have been destroyed? Not much I would imagine except rebel propaganda and the like. If the words Alderaan and Caamasi were removed from the "rebel dictionary" then I imagine that all of these posts would be so much shorter.

    I have to go now but I will return to try and convert you. It is not futile because I've seen the future and in the final act, the Empire shall rise to power untold. Or maybe we all leave the cinema because of a fire, either one is good.

    10
    Hotdogs - are there any more hot animals?
  6. CaptainArdiff Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1999
    star 4
    Yes...give in to your hate! With each passing post you Rebels make yourselves more the servants of the Emperor! (Manic giggling issues from screen)

    I'll be a-voting for that thar side with the best ships and best uniforms, thar, ol' boys! The consarned Empire! Our mile-long Destroyers and ten-mile-long Battleships are...sublime in their purity. Nor - in the movies - do they ever seem to fry innocent civilians...save the rebel-deified Alderaanians. Yeah, the guys who were helping the Rebellion so very much. Sure, it was evil, but, hey! there's no need to get at us for one psychotic guy who barely has the courage to sign the termination order himself!

    Ah...this is fun!
  7. jedigirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 1999
    star 1
    Ok 10, I agree with you that our Alliance defense has greatly revolved around the castastrophe's at Alderaan and Caamasi. I then, will bring up another planet that the Empire has devastated and destroyed.

    Honoghr.

    Although the original destruction was created by a Repulbic starship, it was the Empire who decieved and captured the Noghri in a trap of false debts. They diliberatly planted khlom-grass to eat up and destroy any part of the planet that did survive, and thus kept the Noghri in an eternal servitude.

    Does that sound like an act of a government you'd want to be controlling you? I think not. I have other examples if you'd like 10.


  8. Santee Ordrin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 6
    I am not truly sure that this would be a good idea to bring up, but who is it that really keeps on developing these weapons of total destruction. Who developed the Galaxy Gun, the Sun Crusher, the World Devastators, the Death Stars? Why would you want to live under some government who would create such weapons that can only be used for planetary destruction? And while the nuclear weapons of today are a good parallel, the governments are trying to draw down from what was a three time world over destruction. Still why would one want ot live under someone who can only keep its people in sway because of fear of these weapons?
  9. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    Santee--

    AMEN!!

    You never see the Rebels build any super-weapons. In fact, Mon Mothma once issued a decree that an Imperial size Star Destroyer was the largest size ship the NR could possess.

    Yep, the Rebels captured a Super Star Destroyer, but she ordered it destroyed.

    She wouldn't even let it be put in a museum, 'cause then someone could steal it.

    Like I and Santee said, you never see the NRs with any superweapons. The only Rebel who ever destroyed a planet was Kyp Durron, and he was under the influence of Exar Kun.

    Imps, meanwhile, blow up two planets with the Death Star--Despayre and Alderaan--, nearly kill the Camassi, poison all of Honoghr, crash an SSD out of Coruscant's crust (causing massive earthquakes), ravage Mon Calamari with World Devastators, build a huge missile tube named the Galaxy Gun, put superlasers on the Eclipse class SD's, build and intend to use the Sun Crusher, create a monstrous, self-sufficient starship called the Eye of Palpatine, and destroy nearly the entire population of Beldorion.

    I could list more, but I don't remember them all.

    I trust I've made my point?

    -Thanos6

    PS May this reach 1000 posts!
  10. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    Gah!

    Double Post!

    The horror!

    -Thanos6

    [This message has been edited by Thanos6 (edited 11-29-1999).]
  11. jedigirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 1999
    star 1
    Superb Thanos6 and SO. NOw we are starting to create a stronger defense. And if you noticed, we are only down by one vote as of the last update by my favorite Grand Moff.

    Keep showing yourself fellow members of the Alliance.

  12. Vegeta Daimo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 1999
    The survival of the fittest!

    The Empire rules.

    Don't count me twice GMJ, I'm ...

    "THE MAN WHO LAUGHS"
  13. Grand Moff Jerjerrod Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 3
    Thanks for the heads up NightxRider.

    And you're not so bad yourself jedigirl... for a rebel

    GMJ
  14. Santee Ordrin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 6
    In reply to a part of your argument 10, isn't a tad bit extreme to destroy a persons village with all living things in it, for the simple reason that that person could not handle the pressure placed on him by these supposed kind and just imperials? Now this just happens to come from the mind of that most vaunted writer of all, KJA. And don't consider him such a great writer, because he wrote such prose. Or to take another of his creations, Daala, that all knowing admiral, who bombards the clone world Dorsk 81 came from. Just a coupla examples. All for the love of an empire that was either there or had been defeated. Interesting isn't it?
  15. Grand Admiral Kettch Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 1999
    star 1
    I myself to my namesake from the X-Wing series only because i wanted to be different from everyone else. I was sick and tired of all the humans and all the other races so i went with something completely different. The empire is my vote as it has been and as it shall ever be.

    -Grand Admiral Kettch
    Whats this we $H!7, Kemosabe?
  16. Grand Admiral Kadaan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 1999
    As some of you may know, I am truly Imperial. The last Empire or Rebellion thread was good, for it fully converted me over to the Imperial view. Soon you other Rebels will learn as I did. We Imperials will turn you, in time.
    First off, you Rebels are talking about the Empire in general in terrible ways, when it was only just the acts of the few (Palpatine, Tarkin, Vader, etc.). Our actions were because of corrupted leaders, sure. But look at what the good thing was that Palpatine achieved: he pulled the galaxy away from the slowly collapsing Old Republic and saved everyone from the inevitable chaos that would take place when it finally collapsed. Palpatine just did what all other Imperial commanders eventually did: he was overconfident. I see now that he should have been replaced, for it has been proven over and over again in the SW universe that the overconfident commanders always lost, at least when they were amongst the Empire. Thrawn was perhaps the only one that wasn't overconfident, for he wasn't SURE that he was going to win, as was the opposite thinking of his fellows. Unfortunately, Thrawn would NOT be a good commander, as was already mentioned. He would have been a good military leader, however, and would have led our glorious armies on to many victories. After all, the entire Thrawn trilogy was a victory for the Empire, for I believe that more Rebels were killed in there than Imperials and we even managed to cripple a few enemy worlds' production and economics.
    We, the Empire, had been aiming towards a better galaxy, one where the corruption of the Old Republic was behind us and lost forever. We strived for the gains of everyone, for the Utopian society for all humans. Are you not all humans on this thread? Do you not realize the superiority of our species over all others (Chiss are the only exception, for they are considered by some to be our equals)? Do you not see that humans should have been ruling this galaxy for all eternity, since the aliens always depended on us? Even when there was a Rebellion they relied heavily on you. They depended on you to be the first in battle, to be the first to bite the bullet. Did you not notice how many more humans than aliens there are in your armed forces? The aliens are holding back their numbers and allowing you foolish ones to risk your own necks. Only a certain Mon Calamari Admiral and perhaps one or two other aliens were ever so brave as to be in the front line with the humans. The aliens are somewhat as corrupt as you say our Empire to be. Borsk Fey'lya, for example, once talked to Asyr Sei'lar about how nice it would be for the Bothan race to have an empire one day. He said something about how that would be later. Is that not saying that he and other Bothans look down to humans? Is there truly equality among the Rebels?


    GAK
    must stop for now but will return
  17. Grand Admiral Tarkin Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 1999
    My allegiance will be summarized in one, powerful word: EMPIRE!!!
  18. howlrunner22 Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 1998
    star 5
    Baron - I nearly choked to death upon reading your list - Lets planets join at their own free will.

    Some words - Core Worlds

    As you all know, the Core Worlds are generally the birthplace of humanity and galactic culture. For millenia the capital of the galaxy was situated in this population-dense center. And in general, most of these worlds are populated by humans. Mostly, news of rebellions on the rim, popular dicontent, spiralling crime and astute poverty from the Outer Territories never reached the relatively prosperous Galactic Core.

    When Palpatine came to power, the vast majority of the Core Worlds supported the then President Palpatine and rallied around him when he became the Emperor we all know and love.

    The following is a direct quote from Voren Na'al, famed rebel restrospective propagandist (rebel historian) on the Core Worlds:

    During Palpatine's rule, this area was a stronghold of Imperial support. Core Worlders tended to accept the Empire as a neccessary extension of the Old Republic....

    After Endor, the Alliance High Command was dissolved and became the New Republic High Command. The chnage in name also meant a change in policy and keeping in line with Bail Organa's policies on the way the Rebellion was to be run, switched from guerilla tactics and hit-and-fade missions, went into full-scale war. So, when Ackbar and his fleet showed up around in the Deep Core, the worlds, realising that he could incinerate them from orbit, 'chose' to ally themselves with the Republic. You might say: Hey! This guy has no proof!

    I say: Go buy the WEG Sourcebooks.

    Thus, 'support' for the Republic was widespread but superficial. As long as a battlecruiser stayed in orbit, the citizens remained pro-Republic. So when Palpatine returned and liberated the planets, the Core Worlds rejoiced.

    *Damn! I wanted to write some more but I forgot what it was! Don't you just hate it when this happens?*
  19. Jar Jar Jedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 1999
    Alright. I've been gone ages, but couldn't resist coming back to this debate, the very same one that caused me to join in the first place.

    As to my views, I think that the Empire under Palpatine was doomed to faliure. This is because of the way he managed it, i.e. gradually centralizing everything more and more, gaining tighter and tighter control over his forces. If it wasn't for fools (Idiots isn't the right word) like Palpatine and Tarkin, the Empire would still reign over the galaxy today. I mean, Tarkin sent out at most only about a wing more(TIE's) than the rebels had(X and Y-wings) at yavin, when he had thousands and thousands of fighters at his disposal. He also should have taken a few Star Destroyes with him to yavin. Palpatine was simply too evil to continue to reign. I didn't include Vader in this list, basically because Vader wasn't a fool. He was a warrior, faced with a warrior's choices, and he simply made the best of his situation.

    On the other hand, Thraw's Empire is ideal. Unlike the Emperor, he has no predujices against aliens (he is one himself), and his idea of a galaxy unified against the dangers of the Unknown Regions was not corrupt in any way. If we're talking Thrawn's Empire (Or just the Empire - Palpy, Tarkin and all the other fools), my vote is for the EMPIRE.
  20. Tenebrae Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 1999
    star 1
    I LOVE IT! Okay the Empire were the only side to develop these so-called "Super weapons". But ladies and gentlemen of the jury I put it to you that it was the actions of the rebels that caused the Empire to resort to the use or rather threathened use of these weapons.

    Let us look at Honoghr as you bring it to our attention. Now while risking Mitt's wrath I have to say that the Noghri have often proven themselves to be violent, vindictive, irrational and bound by anillogical and unreasoning honour structure. The actions which the Empire took allowed their "skills" to benefit the galaxy by removing rebels etc. while keeping them on a tight leash. When Leia came along and said "The Empire is lying to you" and they all said "Really!? Let's get them!" without any demand for proof, she effectively allowed the Noghri to run around the galaxy, to metaphorically rape and pillage. So the Empire in keeping these animals from the galaxy by deception, was that a cruel deception or one that kept loyal Imperials safe from the scum of the universe? Then the rebels decide that even if they are killers it's okay to let them go because it is the "right thing" to do.

    Oh dear my browser seems set to crash I'd better post now before my computer closes all the exits to my nuclear bunker!

    10
    Really in a bunker 1000m underground
  21. jedi-lizzie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 1999
    Those of you voting for the Empire, I have a few questions. how do you justify people hauled out of their beds in the middle of the night and never seen again? how do you justify the destruction of Caamas? how do you justify the bombardment of Mon Calamari? how do you justify the destruction of Alderaan? how do you jusify slavery? how do you jusify torture? how do you justify the deception of the Noghri? how do you jusify the Death Star, the Sun Crusher, the Galaxy Gun, Darksaber, and all the other superweapons used on innocent planets? how do you justify the murder of Owen and Beru Lars? how do you justify the strong bias against nonhumans? how do you justify the strong bias against women? how do you justify all the murder, pain, and suffering of thousands of people? answer me that


    REBELS ROCK

    [This message has been edited by jedi-lizzie (edited 12-01-1999).]
  22. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    When Leia came along and said "The Empire is lying to you" and they all said "Really!? Let's get them!" without any demand for proof

    That's not how it happened.

    The Noghri were very hard to convince. She had to dig up a ton of proof, such as the cleaning/contamination droid, to finally win them over.

    -Thanos6
  23. Santee Ordrin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 6
    here is a side argument. Is this basically Empire vs Rebellion, or is it Palpy's Empire vs. Thrawn's Empire vs the Rebellion? If we look at it from that point of view, I think the #'s will change. So Consider that now. It is sort of like the choice given the Russians after the fall of the Rominovs. After they pulled out of WW1. Go for the Reds, or whites. And once Lenin died, go for either Trotsky or Stalin. Interesting choices aint it?
  24. jedigirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 1999
    star 1
    Thanos6 is right 10. The Noghri were not nieve. It took a lot of convincing on Leia's part for them to believe the truth.

    *Can we all come to an agreement in here? We know the Empire destroyed Aleraan and Caamas. Please, if you want to argue, use an arguement not based on those 2 planets. There are plenty of other points to argue and examples to use. Those have been argued to death. Please.*

  25. Khajja nar Ja'Targ Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 1999
    I vote Empire.

    The Empire is the ideal government to ensure the peace and prosperity of humanity across the galaxy. Many terrorists have cited "atrocities" against various alien groups as cause for their treason. Examples often used include Caamas and Honoghr. No apology should be given for efficiently, even ruthlessly weeding out dangers to Imperial citizens. Lord Vader should be commended for finding a purpose suited to creatures as barbaric as the Noghri.

    Now, to the subject of Alderaan. It is important to realize that, although rebel propaganda suggests otherwise, Imperial citizens are not treated in a harsh manner unless they are guilty of crimes against their Government. Grand Moff Tarkin's decision to destroy Alderaan is an easy one to critize in retrospect. But a cancer of this size and nature will do far more harm if allowed to grow into uninfected areas. Alderaanians, as a group, violated Imperial law in harboring and collaborating with traitors. Perhaps Tarkin's reaction was extreme, but the consequences of defying authority are squarely on Alderaanian heads.

    In response to naive calls for "freedom" by various factions, the intelligent Imperial merely reminds the masses that the galaxy is a cold, hard place. We have neither the ability or the inclination to take responsibility for sub-human lives. Imperial authority is at the height of efficiency. In exchange for confusion and chaos, we offer stability, order, and justice.

    Enough squabbling amongst the children of humanity. Flock to the security of the Empire, or perish. No other options exist. For the glory of the Empire!
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