Empire vs. Rebellion (ver 2.1) Back where it belongs!!!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Grand Moff Jerjerrod, Nov 25, 1999.

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  1. Jedi Corran Horn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 1
    If the Empire knew about Alderaan's links to the rebellion (which I don't think they did), Do you Imperials really think that blowing up an entire race is the best way to go about it.
  2. CaptainArdiff Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1999
    star 4
    The problem here, as I see it, is that everybody expects the Empire to do things that are both good for the people and good to the people. Look at any government now or in the past and find one where the government has satisfied everybody. It CANNOT be done. The Empire suppressed dissent ruthlessly to ensure the happiness of the majority (I've never liked the whole anti-non-humans thing...but haven't ever seen it backed up by aught in the films), the majority were humans. It is clear that one will end up with the Empire irritating people...but so what? Clinton's attacks on central Europe distressed many people there just as they appeased many liberals prepared to order others to their deaths. My Dad believes that the soldiery of a nation should not be used for purposes which are a distraction from their goal of defending their own nation - not that we need a defence, having nukes, etc, but still - therefore, he and MANY others were angered by what Blair et al did in the Adriatic (I'm not referring here to Blair's Tuscan villa theft!) I, on the other hand, am someone who sees both sides: genocide was taking place and we were right to act to stop it, but wrong to do so so catastrophically ineptly that 80 churches in the region were hit and numerous innocents were killed. Yes, the evil ones died, but so did the good ones. Moreover, we had no significant protests about this, merely the filthy (personal opinion) British tabloid newspapers urging us on to greater slaughter.

    Sorry, wandered off track with my plaintiveness. But the point is this: I have seen the government of my country being handled so very ineptly that a benvolent despot seems the only solution...however, whether this despot SEEMS benevolent is entirely up to your own perceptions of his acts. In Truce at Bakura Gaeriel believed that the extermination of the Jedi was good because they brought others down, the Ugnaughts - according to some WEG thingy - have an exclusive salvage contract from the Imp Navy, however, the people of Alderaan disliked Palpatine for not having a democracy...never understood that with the whole "Princess" Leia thing, but still. Everybody has his or her own reasons to love or hate Palpy and ANY government. Sadly, without great care, the Imp model is easy to exploit, but corruption only truly set in after Palpy went to that great shaft in the floor. (Don't talk about Jabba and Xizor, the government would permit their existence only for the greater good - jobs for smugglers and possibly to prevent smugglers from supporting the far-more-dangerous Rebellion.
    So go on, leave poor Palpy alone, he thought the Jedi were a threat and - from a certain pov - he was right, also, many ppl feared their supernatural powers - stupidly, but hey! when have ppl ever avoided acting with at least a small amount of stupidity?

    A Fanatic Imp
  3. Jedi Jim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 1
    GAK, Ten, GMJ:

    Well, I definitely did read all of your posts (at least the ones in this thread). It may not sound like it, but I did.

    I will take a look at Ten's post about the distribution of wealth in the other Empire v. Rebellion thread. Sorry I missed it. Maybe it would be a good idea to repost it here so we can all see it.

    Having said that, I still don't agree with your point of view.

    I do not agree that the ends justify the means, particularly where the means is the destruction of human (or other) life. I believe I said something about the notion of a "rule of law" in one of my earlier posts. The idea behind a "rule of law" is that laws work best when the people that are subject to them respect the laws. Ideally, laws should stand for and enforce the moral beliefs of those people - that is where the respect comes from.

    I have trouble believing that the citizens of any nation (or empire) believe that an entire planet, along with its population of men, women and children, should be destroyed without being charged or given a chance to defend itself, simply because a handful of persons (even that planet's leaders) have broken the law. It is unjust to punish civilians (by death) for the sins of their leaders.

    IMO, Alderaan is a moral outrage for this reason. An established government has the right to seek out and punish subversives - but it must do so in a manner that respects the rule of law. I believe that there must be, in any government, a basic right to due process of law - the right to defend yourself against your accusers.

    The people of Alderaan were never given this chance. Even if I agree that the rebellion was improper (and I do not, for reasons I will state below), the Empire's method of curbing it was immoral, and murderous. Once it descended to that level, I believe that it lost its moral authority to govern.

    I understand that Tarkin made the decision to destroy Alderaan - but he did so within the scope of his authority as an Imperial official. He was the assigned commander of the Death Star, a weapon designed to destroy planets. He chose to use that weapon while acting under his authority as the Death Star's commander. The destruction of a world (such as Alderaan) was nothing more than a fulfillment of the Death Star's mission objectives - to maintain order by fear of world destruction. The Emperor and the Empire are responsible for Tarkin's acts. The decision to construct a second, more powerful Death Star suggests that the Emperor approved of the manner in which the first was used.

    I believe that the rebellion arose because the citizens of the Empire were given no ability to affect their government in a meaningful manner. There is nothing wrong with an elected monarch or dictator (like Amidala, or . . . well, I can't think of an elected dictator, but I am sure there is one somewhere on Earth). A single head of state (who wields executive, legislative and judicial authority) is very efficient. That efficiency cuts both ways - if the leader is a good and just leader, the government is good and just. However, if the leader is a "phantom menace," then you can have problems.

    However, as long as the leader is elected, with a limited term of office and a guaranteed, peaceful transfer of power at regular intervals, the people can make their wishes known by choosing a new leader. It has probably been said many times before, but in the USA, every four years a minor miracle occurs - there is a peaceful transfer of power. The commander in chief of the most powerful armed forces in the world voluntarily gives up his position, without a military coup, without any bloodshed. There are a lot of faults with the USA, but this is one aspect of its government that is unqualifiedly amazing.

    I don't belive that the Empire follows this system. It is a military dictatorship, with no elections. The Emperor unilateraly assumed power (he declared himself emperor) and took control of the military.

    This may have had positive benefits - the stability of an iron rule. Feuds between rival races were stamped out. Production
  4. Grand Moff Jerjerrod Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 3
    JJ said:
    When the government in question is committing atrocities like genocide, slavery, and torture against its citizenry, rebellion is a moral mandate, not a crime.

    Are you saying therefore that a rebellion against the United States would be justified under these same terms?

    Also, in a SW universe standpoint, I don't know of a true democracy anywhere in it. Alderran is only stated as being neutral, which they were until they started aiding the rebels. Do you not think that the Empire ever asked for these rebels to be turned in? It was common knowledge that the Alderranians were harboring rebel troops, supplies, etc. Think about this... what if a terrorist or rebellious group was based in a city. The government asks for the citizens of the city to turn in said group. Said citizens refuse. Then, a clear and present danger situation is present. The city has committed a treasonous action towards the existing government, especially since the group intends to do harm to the government at hand. An action such as this is legally punishable by death, and the city made the choice for itself. Let's take it a step further. The military has gathered around the city, preparing to take out the group the only way they know how... to take out the city (because the citizens become part of the group when they choose to back the group by not turning them in to the authorities). The mayor of the city is given one last chance to save her city by telling the military where the group is located and she says "ummmm, over in Europe somewhere". The military general sees her lie and orders the destruction of the city. Now, who is to blame in this situation? Is it the mayor or the group itself? I think you can all see the parallel here, so I need not spell it all out. Just something to consider.

    GMJ
  5. Jedi Jim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 1
    GMJ:

    That is a very good argument, and I'm not going to pretend that anything you stated in it is not a valid point.

    My thoughts on it? It truly depends on the situation (not much of an answer, is it?). If the city in question is about to immediately cause harm to other innocents (and I mean immediately - no time for debate, a trial, etc.), then my reluctant answer is yes. If the city refuses to surrender a group that is bent upon terrorizing civillians, and there is nothing left to do, the government would have to act to protect others, who don't have a choice in the matter. But violence should always be the absolutely last resort to any situation - particularly where you are talking about killing a huge group of people, each of whom may have different views about the situation. I wonder if the Empire ever brought charges against Alderaan? Or why they didn't just blockade the world, and take control of the illegal weapons?

    I'm just saying that blowing up a world should be the absolutely, positively, end-of-life-in-the-galaxy-if-we-don't-do-it last option.

    But, to get back to your point, in this situation, I think that a leader who failed to protect his people's lives has to take responsibility for his (or her) decision. If the Empire was justified in destroying Alderaan in the first place (i.e., they were terrorists planning to immediately kill civillians just to kill civillians), then it is Leia's fault that all of those people die.

    However, a small point to raise - Tarkin did not know Leia was lying, therefore his decision to destroy Alderaan was merely malicious, and not justified ( , sorry, couldn't resist).

    I don't think that the rebellion is portrayed like that in the SW universe. There isn't anything about Alderaan preparing to launch a massive terrorist attack on civillian populations. I also think that most, if not all of the rebellion's targets have a valid military objective other than the attrition of civillian populations. That is a fine point in my book, since I personally believe that killing is killing, period. But most of our discussion seems to focus on what type of killing is justified - was the Empire justified in destroying the Alderanians to quell the rebellion? was the rebellion justified in collaterally killing imperial citizens when it attacked the imperials? (By the way, I hate the phrase "collateral damage" but don't know how else to refer to it).

    As I have admitted, though, a lot of it comes down to the situation. Lucas portrays the rebs as the heroes. I pretty much accept his portrayal, since there is currently no other source! That doesn't mean that every rebellion is just - many are not.

    But that also doesn't mean that no rebellion can be just. If we take Lucas' word for the SW rebs, they mounted and won a just rebellion against an unjust and tyrannical government. I respect that you imperials have a different interpretation of the events (it's kind of cool to think that Lucas is just an inspired but misguided prophet of the Star Wars galaxy, with his own biases ), even if I don't agree with it.

    The best thing I like about the Empire is its belief in order, or a "rule of law" as I call it. I firmly believe in that. Without order, peace and progress are impossible. (I also like Thrawn - he is evil, but I admire his genius, determination, and ability to make things happen; that doesn't mean I want to have him rule me, though )

    But, I am unwilling to accept racism or brutality, regardless of how difficult multiple races/cultures or outspoken, divisive views make it to keep order. I am lucky to live in a day and age (and a part of the world) where those practices are not supposed to be tolerated, and I do not want to live in a world where they are official policy. I am not a big fan of political correctness, but diversity is a pretty darned good thing, and tolerance is even better.

    I hope that this post responds to the points you were raising.

    Sorry - I forgot to respond to your question. Yes - if the US is killing off indigenous peoples, or enslaving, or committi
  6. Grand Moff Jerjerrod Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 3
    Then by your answer the gov't deserves to be overthrown. Genocide? How many indian civilizations were completely destroyed by the US gov't and military? Slavery? Need we ask? Also, how many times in history has the government stepped in and put down negative movements (ie McCarthyism)?

    Also, Tarkin just saw through Leia's lie and made the decision to go through with his plan.

    The reason I bring up the above stuff about the US is because I make the comparison to The Empire. Slavery is no longer an issue in The Empire, yet people still use it as an issue. The same with Palpatine this Palpatine that. He's dead, leave him alone. Judge the Empire for what it is, not what it was.

    GMJ
  7. Santee Ordrin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 6
    So then the true question would be, which empire? You have supporters of Palpatine here and/or Thrawn, with some not willing to support the other. Or in other words, you are saying that we do not have to compare the old republic to the empire, just the new republic? That makes it even easier. I am definitely for the New Republic. Though if Thrawn had survived, it would not have worried me to much to have him as my commander, because he was fair. But I would still support the New Republic. Mainly because it comes down to the basic freedoms that we all should have. Something that I am only beginning to see in the empire under the leadership of Pellaeon(sp?). Interesting isn't it, now that the Empire is becoming more like a true nation with basic freedoms given to its citizens, it is becoming more civilized.
  8. Jedi Jim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 1
    If the focus is on the Emire at the end of VotF, then I think that the Empire as a form of government has a much better chance of lasting (as opposed to the Empire at the end of RotJ), simply because people have a choice - they can choose the NR or they can choose the Empire. I think that would make an effective check on tyranny - as long as people can choose something else.

    But I do not see that same safeguard built into the Empire itself - there is no internal check or balance, or means for the citizenry to participate in choosing its leaders.

    The same may be true for the NR - with the Empire as competition, it may make efforts to more successfully keep the peace within its borders. Without that competition, however, it may dissolve due to internal conflicts.

    Maybe the correct conclusion is that neither can survive without the other - a symbiont circle
  9. Grand Moff Jerjerrod Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 3
    I actually see the NR self destructing. It, like many new governments, are trying too hard to please everyone and not focusing on getting things under control. Who cares if the jigglylpoofs aren't happy... they've got too many other things to worry about. The Empire, on the other hand, worries about stability first and foremost.

    GMJ


    [This message has been edited by Grand Moff Jerjerrod (edited 12-07-1999).]
  10. Tenebrae Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 1999
    star 1
    The Empire at the end of VotF is actually for all the touchy feely types the best of both worlds, combining the order of the Empire with some of the choice of democracy. It does seem to work rather well and no doubt would be even better if it was ruling the galaxy and not a 1,000 planets.

    The main problem with the NR is that there is too much choice and frequently people make the wrong choice.

    10
    And all because the Empire hates Ewoks
  11. Jedi Jim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 1
    Freedom of choice will always be a problem - people abuse it! Even emperors!

    I think the problem with not caring what the jigglypoofs think, however, is that if you ignore anybody for too long, they will eventually get upset and start a rebellion. If you consistently ignore everybody who isn't one particular type (i.e., humans) then everybody who isn't human (as well as some idealistic humans) will get pi$$ed off and start shooting. Then the chaos and senseless destruction you guys have so ably pointed out above happens all over again.

    I say senseless because, maybe with some effort and an attempt to communicate, this violence can be averted.

    The touchy feely Pellaeon empire gave this a go - and it worked. Pellaeon talked, and wound up with a truce, an armistice, formal diplomatic relations, trade agreements, and best of all, the chance to peacefully increase the Empire's numbers.

    The NR won too - no more war. Just some steady competition for members, which could do nothing but make things better for everybody.

    One other thing I was thinking about - there is a big difference between how strictly a government enforces its police powers and whether or not it allows people to choose a leader. For example, both the empire and the rebellion could have a law that says you can't falsely accuse a leader of corruption, treachery, etc. But the NR could punish that with a fine, while the Empire could punish it with 25 years in the clink. This could still happen while both the Empire and the NR allow the citizens to elect a leader (the NR by voting, the Empire by allowing NR fanatics to go join the NR). But I'm sure there would be far fewer false accusations of corruption, etc., in the Empire.

    One valid point that you folks make is that a lot of people do want strictly enforced rules - so they would choose the 25 years in the clink to increase the odds that only people with a just complaint make the accusation. (Side note - it's good to balance this against the possibility that too severe a punishment will make people afraid to come forward even when they have a valid complaint - it's also good to make the punishment fit the crime so that people respect the laws).

    My prediction is that the NR will survive, because they will have to get better at maintaining peace unless they want to lose more and more member worlds. I'm sure that the jedi will play a large role in this. Also, a lot of the tensions within the NR may dissolve as some of the feuding parties go to the Empire (although maybe that will just precipitate another NR-Empire war!)

    If both the NR and Empire survive, and find a way to co-exist, I think in time the NR and Empire will grow to resemble each other so much that there is not much practical difference between the two. Then we'll have imperial jedi, Moff Organa-Solo, and Grand Admiral Anakin.

    Maybe it starts all over again at that point - nothing seems to last forever.

    P.S. I don't know if it's on topic, but I think that Zahn, if he were allowed to write more in the EU, would have the Hand of Thrawn unite the NR and Empire to fight the menaces from the Unknown Regions - the old common foe solution. Who knows what happens in that scenario.
  12. Lt. Page Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 1999
    star 2
    I vote for the Rebellion, but I don't have time to go into any detail at the moment.
  13. Grand Admiral Kadaan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 1999
    JJ, I've got so many replies to what you say I think my hands are going to ache, especially after I had to write some of that old Empire or Rebellion??? thread again from what I printed (if you haven't heard about that yet go visit the E vs. R Shrine, where I managed to uncover some of the old Empire or Rebellion???'s corpse).
    First off, I thought I wrote a lot, but I'm afraid my dissertations in no way match up to yours. I missed only a days worth of replies do to school and you seem to be the majority of everything.
    Anyway, you mentioned something about how we(the Empire) didn't allow freedom of choice. Well, you're wrong. We gave the people of a planet the choice of following their own laws, as long as they reported to the local Moff on a regular basis and paid some taxes (not just credits but sometimes material goods as well). We, likewise, offered protection and allowed their economies to grow by protecting trade from terrorists like pirates and rebels.
    Third, you also mentioned that the Rebels' government is slower. I couldn't agree more! I direct your attention again to the Yevetha incident. It took until book three in the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy before the Rebellion (excuse me, NEW REPUBLIC) could openly declare war on these invaders, but by this time many innocent people had been ravaged. Had the Empire still been in control the Yevetha would still be properly restrained and even if they had rebelled Palpatine would have instantly vanquished their forces (unless they joined the Rebellion, where they could be properly protected by SW authors and they'd be all but invincible).
    Fourthly, you said that Thrawn was evil Wrong again! Thrawn was not evil like Palpatine type evil (it sounds like you refer to him that way), he was just a man fighting for what he strongly believed in. If this is the case, then the Rebellion and NR were both evil as well.
    Also, I agree with GMJ. The NR will inevitably collapse. They allow too many opinions and they debate forever. They are no better than the Old Republic. Also, if they continue to take forever to declare war on a species such as the Yevetha then they'll soon run out of citizens.
    Also, JJ, you said that Jedi would help in keeping the NR stable. Once again, I'll disagree. Jedi nowadays are all for themselves and doing what they think is right. It'll take forever to get THEM under control (as if the NR didn't have their own problems already). Also, the Jedi will soon be highly used in defending everyone from the Yuuzhan Vong that they'll do absolutely no good in the political field (which they were never good in anyway with the exception of Leia and Cilghal).
    Finally, JJ, that postscript thing about the Empire joining the NR would probably never happen against the Chiss, if that is who you refer to in the Unkown Regions. If anything, they'll combine and fight the YV, but once we are weakened perhaps the Chiss come in, join the Empire, and together they take back the galaxy. Hm, I rather like that!


    GAK
    still hasn't heard any replies to the facts he mentioned earlier about more human fighters than aliens. I will not tell you all the facts again, you'll have to look it up yourselves. Like I said, you simply ignore things the Empire states.
  14. jedigirl Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 2, 1999
    star 1
    So many things to consider. I have to agree that the Empire did run a better and smoother government. That cannot be denied no matter how hard I try. The New Republic does seem to have many problems that cannot be justified as "the chaotic switch from Empire to New Republic" any longer. That excuse is no longer an option. From all aspects, it seems as though the Empire would be better.

    But I just cannot bring myself to announce that I am an Imperial, because even with all things considered, I am a Rebel at heart. I always have been, I always will be. All though I might not agree with the way they are handling situations, I cannot switch my alligance. That is impossible.

    Maybe I will just resign from both sides, and be one of the Jedi who is working towards peace and justice, not for the Empire or the New Republic. hmmm. . . .

    But then if I did that, I would no longer be a part of this debate because I would have no side to speak for. . . .

    In that case, I am still a Rebel.

  15. exur kun jr Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 1999
    i vote for the empire (Thrawn's empire) because of their cool weapons (SSD, TD, ISDs etc)
  16. Jar Jar Jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 1999
    <sighs>
    Well, I've defected from the Rebels' side. It was a hard descision, leaving the side I just joined, but once you look at it closely, the Empire makes more sense. They would never had been defeated if the Rebs hadn't had the most powerful force in battle on their side: Desperation. So back to the Empire I march, to once more become a loyal citizen and revel in the glory of peace, order and stability.

    JJJ
    Seriously considering changing my name...
  17. Lord Venaari the Grey Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 1999
    Clearly Empire .
    First , the enlightened Imperial Forces Destined To Protect The Galaxy From Utter Liberal Chaos have the more tasteful designed Equipment , Uniforms and Vehicles .
    Second , my worthy liberalminded Friends , who says that it is wrong to rule through Fear ? Yes , YOU say it , but that is just Rhetorical Repetition . It is better to have strong Rulers than weak rulers , whatever their Worth in the evershifting and cultural dictated ethical Systems of some insignificant cultures may be . And as an by his imperial Highness into the Mysteries of the Force introduced Tutor for promising so-called " Dark " Jedi I can tell you that there are other Paths to Enlightment and Ethical Behaviour than your rather primitive and clumsy " Good-Bad " Principle .
    And if your Mind is not flexible enough to skip these trashy mental remnants of the foul and rotten old Republic we , the enlightened Disciples of His Imperial Highness , must consider you to be a dangerous infesting germ that has to be ...removed from a sensitive to your ideological poison environment . And that we shall humbly do to greaten the Glory of the EVERLASTING AND ALLCOMPASSING GALACTIC EMPIRE !!!!!
  18. CaptainArdiff Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1999
    star 4
    Apologies, not had the time to read all as v. busy, so forgive me if I repeat another's post(s). Examples of elected dictators on earth: Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein. Now, get angry with me because they "stole" power. Iraq is NOMINALLY a democracy nowadays, when Hitler was elected Germany had its old political rules. What ye must consider is that everybody gets irritated sometimes - I know I've said that before. Julius Caesar was v. popular with the Roman people and v. unpopular with the aristocracy because he ousted their power. Now, the aristocracy were the rich politicians of the day. Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, Bel Iblis...all Palpy did was give the people a firm guiding hand. You'll notice that the Empire only collapsed after his death when no-one took his place and wielded his power.


    I leave you with a quotation from a character on P.329 of Tales from the NR,

    "The Emperor's ideas are quite noble. I's his methods which eventually offend those of lesser vision."

  19. Sgt Crowfield Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 1999
    star 4
    ...!
    Lord Venaari... My Lord... I am humbled by your presence...

    At last... I waited for such a long time for you to appear at this Forum to guide me...


  20. Callista Sunrider Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 2
  21. Tenebrae Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 1999
    star 1
    Perhaps I should take the time for a little laugh at the person or persons that thought that the Empire was done as a JC force, I haven't seen that person in this thread perhaps they are sulking waiting for better days but I could be wrong.

    The fact that people do abuse power is a strength for the Empire as there are far fewer people in power it becomes much harder for there to be wide spread corruption, of course providing the Emperor is a decent type of person then it cannot become widespread as the Emperor can instantly remove corrupt elements. Many people have agreed with me that the NR is slower as a government and I don't think anyone can discount this. In unity lies strength and therein lies the Empires power.

    10
    Just 1 Cornetto
  22. Santee Ordrin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 6
    With far fewer people in power the corruption takes that much more of an effect on the people be led. If your leader is a corrupt individual, and promotes a certain behavior that you find to be wrong, ie favoritism, nepotism, bribery, smuggling, use of systems resources for leaders own personal benefit, and the overall ruler of the "Empire" doesn't seem to mind, what makes it plausbile that they are wrong? Examples of this you can find in most any book and even in the movies. The only examples that I can think of now are Derricote, Zsinj, Disra, Teradoc, among others. Each of these used the imperial way for their own personal gain, running roughshod over the soldiers and citizenry that they led.

    Here is another question that might give y'all pause for thought. For all you imperials, you seem like bright individuals, who are not willing to see an inept leader or government. If you have such a government in power, what would you do? Rebel, follow, or leave?
  23. Grand Admiral Kadaan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 1999
    Actually, Santee, I wouldn't follow an inept government. That is why I chose the Empire and shall be loyal to it for all eternity.


    GAK
  24. Santee Ordrin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 6
    So in essence you would follow an inept or corrupt government. hmm... Interesting. Makes my point all that much more.

    Here is something else to think about as well. and to take a quote from our "esteemed" BW/Ten The Empire is never wrong. People merely need to have thier perceptions altered to realise the Empire is a caring government that wants only to help it's citizens.
    Of course if you are a dissident or an alien then your perceptions are likely to be changed by termination of corporeal form. All for the greater glory of course. That is why the Empire is the wrong way to go. It doesn't allow that basic freedom to truly live. To truly see and choose your own way. That is why the Empire lost, and will continue to lose.
  25. LisaJ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 1999
    star 2
    After taking time to read all these wonderfully constructed arguments...I think that I will remain a Rebel at heart...sure things will get tough, and they might not have the same smooth running like the Empire did, but at least they dont rule out of fear.

    The Rebellion gets my vote
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