Empire's End

Okay, we all know this should have been a six issue deal and that the Emperor's final demise wasn't that great. But, like all Star Wars and EU fans we must take the good with the bad. Just because most people don't like Jar Jar doesn't mean he never exsisted. Here's how I deal with the lackidasical ending to a great series.

Most people don't like the fact that the Emperor came back from the dead. They think it makes Anakin's death in RotJ meaningless. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Palpatine was killed and finished off later by the Skywalkers, Anakin, Luke and Leia and little Anakin. Vader as we all know saved Luke life by killing the Emperor and fufilled his prophecy as the one who would bring balance to the force. This was done and it hasn't changed. Again, the Emperor's return doesn't change this. Then the next generations of Skywalkers, Luke, Leia and Anakin defeat Palpatine in a very convincing way. Luke also defeats Palpatine in mortal combat and destroys his best clones. Great ending... Then comes Empire's End...

Having Han shoot the Emperor and have Brand chain his spirit to endless madness of the darkside doesn't change anything here's why...

The Emperor was truly defeated on Eclipse, not on Onderon.

Think about it, Palpatine was already dead. In his short absence Skywalker had already dealt him his death blow. Jax had the rest of his clones sabotaged or destroyed. When he did come back it was in a defective body that would have died anyway (According to the long dead Sith Lords, one of the best scenes in the book IMO). Luke also resisted the Darkside one final time by refusing to slay Palpatine. He was already beatin, he died not as the Emperor of a Galaxy, but as a pitiful weak old man. Quite a fitting end if you ask me.

Well what do you think about Empire's End?

If nothing else you can always take the "Zhan" way out.

P.S. BTW, was it ever explained why Mara couldn't sense the Emperor? Tom said he had a reason why but I never heard it. Any moderators know?

 

There's that part in VOTF where Mara expresses doubt over the Emperor's return. She says something along the lines of "i'm not entirely sure it was even him"

 

It was indeed Palpatine, and I think Mara did sense him, briefly, in Mysteries of the Sith.

TC

 

MotS is not the greates piece of continuity. It was Palpie, yet it was still stupid.

 

The outline for Episodes 7-9 were to have Luke and his sister go up against the Emperor. Therefore, Empire's End seems quite fitting. Anyway, the prophecy of bringing Balance to the Force can be interpreted soooo many ways. For the sake of the movies it was throwing Palpy down a shaft. For the EU it was saving Luke's life so he could bring back the Jedi order.

What I would like to see is a book or comic showing how the New Republic had to flee Coruscant. At the end of TTT everything's absolutely fine then in Dark Empire they are back to being the Rebel Alliance again. What?

 

Quote:
"the prophecy of bringing Balance to the Force can be interpreted soooo many ways"

No, not really. Lucas himself said that balance of the Force was brought by Anakin killing the Emperor and destroying the Sith. Period. There's no interpretation involved. Now according to this comic, Anakin was just helpful in doing that. Total contradiction.

Even before TPM though, DE totally undermined everything that happened in ROTJ, not just Anakin killing Palpatine. Luke refusing to turn to the dark side, Boba Fett's death, the destruction of the Death Star (now we can blow up stars!), and the defeat of the Empire, all simply negated because the author didn't have enough imagination to come up with his own stuff. Nice artwork though.

 

Quote:
"Well, if one takes in context with just the OT, Vader's sacrifice really was more for saving his son, not to destroy the Emperor"

It was also about destroying his master and freeing himself. It's very important to the story that it's Vader who kills him. Not Han Solo or whoever.

Quote:
"Sure, Palpatine came back, but he was out of the ring for a long enough period of time that it was too late for him to reclaim what was his, not to mention he became progressively weaker"

What part of DESTROY THE EMPEROR don't you understand?

Quote:
"If one person could get out of the Sarlacc, it's the guy with a weapons-packed battlesuit"

Yes but if they wanted to give a possibility of his getting out, they wouldn't have so definitively had him eaten. Even more so in the SE. It's not a direct contradiction but it's closer to Friday the 13th than SW.

Quote:
"Luke started down the dark path the minute he struck out at Vader in the throne room's underworkings"

Did you even see the film? Luke stopped using the dark side and definitively rebuked it. He became a Jedi only after he defeated the dark side in himself.

I'm not arguing that these are contradictions pers se (except the Emperor's death) but it's just lazy writing. Things happen in ROTJ that are defininitive. DE just says, well, none of that took. Crap.

 

When does Mara mention the emporer in MotS?

 

>>and the defeat of the Empire<<

Lucas brought back the empire post-rotj, in Star Tours storyline, and even more shocking a 3rd death star, Oh My, . LFL was just following previous continuity, that even lucas had set forth.

In the ROTJ, novel luke uses the dark side twice, when he chokes the gamorrean it discusses how he is traipsing on the edge. Then when he strikes at his father. Twice he had used the darkside.

 

Quote:
"Lucas brought back the empire post-rotj, in Star Tours storyline, and even more shocking a 3rd death star, Oh My"

LOL! That's a joke, right?

 

Oh good grief, not this again.

Ok, first off, Vader did kill the Emperor by throwing him down the shaft. He never even had a chance once he came back. Vader killed him the next time anyway, albeit indirectly, because the apprentice Vader trained (Lumiya) trained the man who poisoned the Emperor's clones. So if it hadn't been for Vader, Palpatine would still be around. As for Fett, does anyone really care if he survived the Sarlaac or not? He's a bit character in the movies. I doubt it makes any difference to Lucas's "vision" if he escaped or not.

Last of all, George Lucas has control over *all* major EU plotline such as these. If he didn't like it, he could have nixed it when it was first brought up, or, if he felt later on that it contradicted the prequels, he could have told LFL to make the clone fix official. If Lucas doesn't care, why do you?

TC

P.S. A little levity. How about this as an alternate name for Dark Empire II: The Emperor's New Clones?

 

"LOL! That's a joke, right?"

No not a joke, read the script and weep, and notice threepio's words to the placement of the story IE post ROTJ.:

It's a ride at most of the disneyparks, if not all.

It tells a story of attack on Death Star III at some point after ROTJ. It was a story written by George Lucas and Disney Theme parks.

Here's the complete script:

"Star Tours Queue Script


(As you enter the Star Tour's attraction queue, you enter what looks
like a repair bay, where you see two familiar droids working a
StarSpeeder in the front. To the right is a see-through screen of
plastic tiles that becomes opaque in different patterns. The whole
screen becomes opaque when advertisements are projected on it (B)
BTW, These tiles are available from Edmund's scientific and become
opaque when a electric charge is place thru it. Around $50 per 6X6
inch piece. We enter in a conversation that is currently going on.)


Male Announcer 1: "Attention please, all droids leaving the system
must cleared by custom's control, proof of
ownership is required for all droid passengers."

C3PO: "'Proof of ownership?' We droids are made to suffer such
indignities"

Male Alien Announcer: .........

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "What is it now, R2?"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "Don't get technical with me! What pressure? The fuel
pressure!?!.... Well, why didn't you say so in the first
place? Let me check."

R2D2: Warbles.

C3PO: "Yes, I am getting rather high read here.... Oh yes, R2, I am
shutting off the main line right now!!!"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "Just you get back to fixed that motivator!"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "These new transports are impossible!"

(Ad comes on the Screen)

Male Announcer 2: "Star Tours introduces the perfect getaway
vacation, with exclusive tour packages to Hoth.
Now you can ski the most incredible slopes in the
galaxy, or if you prefer, explore beautiful and
mysteries ice caverns and the famed echo base of
the rebellion forces. And while you are there,
be sure to enjoy the exhilarating ride on a
Taun Taun. It's all on Hoth, and it all begins
soon, only from Star Tours. Watch for details."

C3PO: "Well, you'll never get me to go back to that iceberg!"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "I don't care how safe it is now, R2, it gives my motivators
the chills just thinking about it. Hmmm, I would rather be
sent to, the spice mines of Kessel then go back to Hoth."

Male Supervisor: "Hey, you droids on transport 22, get back to
work!"

C3PO: "Now see what you have done! We'll lose our jobs for sure."

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "Don't insult me you overgrown scrap pile! At least I'm doing
my job!"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "Yes, I am. So you just get back to fixing that hyperdrive
motivator!"

Female announcer: "Will the owner of a red and black landspeeder
vehicle ID THX-1138 please return to your craft.
You're parked in a no-hover area."

Male Announcer: "All passengers who wish to exchange currency, prior
to departure, are invited to visit the exchange
office, opened daily during regular flight hours."

Female announcer: "There has been a gate change for Star Tours
flight 114, StarSpeeder service to Endor. Flight
114 will now be departing for gate number 2.
This is a gate change only. Thank you."

C3PO: "I do wish I could go with you to Endor...."

R2D2: Something shorts and he warbles loudly....

C3PO: "On second thought, I just remembered how much I hate space
travel. You have a nice trip though, R2."

Female announcer: "Attention please. Star Tours flight 119,
non-stop service to Endor, is now ready for
boarding at gate number 1. All passengers please
proceed to the boarding area immediately."

Alien announcer: ...........

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "R2D2, just what do you think you are doing?"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "Get back to work, before they deactivate you!"

R2D2: Warbles

C3PO: "Yes, I think they would. And hurry up, they're be needing
this transpor

 

Quote:
"So if it hadn't been for Vader, Palpatine would still be around."

Anakin brought balance by DESTROYING THE EMPEROR - Lucas

Not by haveing a hand in it. Rationalize it all you want.

And give me a break about Star Tours. It's a ride! Of course it has a script for the attendants to read but it's a freaking ride, it's not part of canon. Of course they're going to re-create a scene from the film. That doesn't mean that the exact same thing happened again. You EUers take this stuff too far, I think.

 

Lucas once said in an interview about the ride that the story took place after the events of ROTJ. He said it was a sequel to his story on some tv special they had on about the time it was first released. Also Bantha tracks says that the story set after rotj, and that it some imperial leftovers that have another deathstar in the outer rim.

As well, Tim Zahn made refrences to the story, as did Tiefighter, as did adventure journal 15.

 

The Empire WOULD have either named a successor to Palpatine to direct imperial forces (we know Tarkin had plans to do so, as did Vader) or splintered into various warlord factions.

I never knew Vader wanted to kill his master (Before ROTJ). If Vader wanted to kill Palpatine, Palptine would of sensed it,and killed Vader first.

Did Vader really want to kill Palpatine during ROTJ? Or only when Luke got the little Ankian that was left in Darth Vader to come out and save his son, and then destroy the emperor?

 

Yes, but it doesn't mean that a ride is canon. That's silly. That would drag SW canon down worse than EU.

 

The Empire WOULD have either named a successor to Palpatine to direct imperial forces (we know Tarkin had plans to do so, as did Vader) or splintered into various warlord factions.

I never knew Vader wanted to kill his master (Before ROTJ). If Vader wanted to kill Palpatine, Palptine would of sensed it,and killed Vader first.

Did Vader really want to kill Palpatine during ROTJ? Or only when Luke got the little Ankian that was left in Darth Vader to come out and save his son, and then destroy the emperor?

 

Padme Bra... How hypocritical of you, you keep on saying that lucas words are canon. Yet you ignore lucas words. You just contradicted yourself. Can't you choose a view and stick with it?

 

I quote Lucas when he's talking about the FILMS! Those are canon. Not when he's giving a press release about a RIDE.

 

Actually,I dun think Lucas has ever even referred to his own films as canon.

And I'm pretty sure he said that the ride is a sequal to RotJ.

So,if EU contradicted the ride we'd have to throw it out.

Straight jacket Pad?

 

LOL, that is pretty funny.

>What I would like to see is a book or comic showing how the New >Republic had to flee Coruscant.

Try Retreat From Coruscant, an Adventure Journal story republished in Tales From the Empire.

TC

 

It was a film when He had the TV special He showed nearly the whole story every quote, minus 1 scene, the SD scene. He said it was a sequal to his stories, and a new story.

Now if I bring up the definition of film:

Main Entry: mov·ie
Pronunciation: 'mü-vE
Function: noun
Etymology: moving picture
Date: 1912
1 : MOTION PICTURE
2 plural : a showing of a motion picture
3 plural : the motion-picture medium or industry.

By definition the showing of it on tv was a movie. Not to mention the projected scenes in the ride itself were film. As well as the things shown on the TV screens would be film clips as well.

Next I want you to PPOR were lucas has ever used the term canon? To him when he talks it's just his story or ideas. He never once uses canon. He only discusses what he's created how it fits in with his ideas.

He has created many star wars stories, from 1-6, 2 Ewok films, the Ewok Cartoons, and the Droids cartoons, as well as star tours. Considering that lucas has never used the term canon you have no right to define what is and isn't canon. Only lucas has the right to define what is and isn't part of his story. So far he hasn't gone come forward and directly give an announcment to say he has made his stories no longer valid. So far they are just his stories. Until he comes forward and says otherwise, his last comments that they are his stories are the only valid comments.

 

So Lucas can't talk about his ride without making it canon. Fine. Show me where "RIDE" is on the canon hierarchy and I'll believe that after ROTJ, 3PO and R2 got jobs on a tour line. And they get lost and join a battle with yet another Death Star identical to that in ANH. They not only survive, but the Death Star is destroyed in the exact same way it was in ANH.

Hey, there are little videos before you go into the ride, showing you how to put your seatbelts on. Those must be canon too. So Chewie and an apparently resurrected Vader, some Ewoks and Jabba's dead minions all went on a tour together and brought cameras. Ree Yees tried to take a flash photograph and got yelled at. Great additions to the saga.

Good greif.

EDIT: Lucas doesn't have to use the word canon. It's a given that his films are. I'll even throw in the Ewok ones. But not a ride. It's common sense. You guys take all this too literally.