Beyond "Empress Jaina Fel", version 2 [post-LotF, UPDATED!! See inside, and read v.1]

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction- Before, Saga, and Beyond' started by Thrawn McEwok, Jan 19, 2008.

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  1. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    [face_laugh] Nice analogy! :D

    [face_thinking]

    His sarcasm is directed at Jaina, and her behaviour. Maybe our understandings of the concept 'sarcasm' differ (wouldn't that be ironic?).

    By laying a heavy, ironic stress on particular ideas, Ben can sarcastically comment on Jaina's actions?

    [face_yoda] Patience! :D

    Someone should tell Luke that next time he's catching up with Tenel Ka! [face_mischief]

    :eek: :eek: [face_shame_on_you]

    Why do they want Hapes out? And, will they risk that? The Hapans could choose a weak candidate - a fake Allana, even - and go to war together?

    I should probably point out that the Death Star was blown up in a combined effort by Chewie, Wedge, Lando, Airen Cracken, Ace Azameen, Page's Commandos, and some Ewoks. :p

    Everything the Solo/Skywalkers did was ultmately irrelevant! :p

    What use is she really? Isn't she just a focus for Hapan hostility and resentment if she's been obviously Imperialized? ;)

    How many spoilers have you been exposed to for 'Legacy of the Force'? o_O

    You split between assuming right and assuming wrong. You can also just not assume? ;)

    I recognize the name, aye. ;)

    - The Imperial Ewok
  2. Alkibiades Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2007
    star 2
    [face_thinking] That does make sense to me...

    Hapans don't chose candidates. The candidates are supposed to grab as much power to them by assassinating as much rivals as they can - the most ruthless version wins. It'd take them at least a year to get a ruler settled, and then the whole process of promoting political puppets starts, the whole dictator-stabilizing-her-position process. And that is if there is a definitive best candidate. If there are two strong candidates, we'll have the Mayan alternative, a civil war that lasts a decade and practically ruins the country. Hapans are off.

    And yes, they would want that, supposing they still wish to assume Galactic Supremacy. Or, they wish to play good by helping Allana stabilize her position and thus win a Hapan alliance... There are all sorts of advantages to get from TK's death. More than when she lives? That depends upon the relationship you define in the 'fic - and I don't know much about them yet.

    No! No, no, no. No. The DSII was blown up because Palpatine's megalomania got the better of him. Had he simply ordered the Executor alone to fire at the Rebel fleet, it would have been wiped out. Instead, he picks them off with a single superlaser. STUPID. Take a hint from someone who knew politics:
    I'll leave it at that.

    No... It should be done subtly. Maybe Jaina going to Hapes and making Allana ask her to take her away and making a public speech it is for her safety, and then she leaving a Jaina-controlled puppet and visit twice a year... Something like that. Or something even smarter. Do I need to come up with it? You get the point.

    Alkibiades
  3. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    There's an update in the other thread, btw...

    ***

    :p

    Would it necessarily? o_O Or might several powerful factions agree to co-operate...?

    *nods* ;)

    The Executor was a really poorly-designed ship. Like all Star Destroyers, its guns were relatively inaccurate at long ranges, and at short range, attackers could fight on equal terms with any guns that could actually bear on them.

    The Rebels' own experience at Endor shows that the vulnerability of attacking ships moving up through medium-range fire does NOT outweigh these crippling vulnerabilities.

    Sure, Ackbar probably wouldn't have attacked even an Imperial-class ship at close range if Lando hadn't taken the lead, but without the superlaser giving the battlestation an active role in the battle, the Rebels would simply have outmanoeuvred the Imperial fleet, or scattered them.

    Anyway, none of this actually interferes with my point: even Palpatine was vulnerable to more than just Solo/Skywalker threats.

    There comes a point when "smart" becomes "not pointlessly evil or manipulative, anyway". You, of all people, should recognize that, General. o_O

    - The Imperial Ewok
  4. Alkibiades Jedi Knight

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    Dec 15, 2007
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    Yes, it would be necessary. Their constitution demands a single dictator; you think they are going to admit supremacy of one over the other? Never! And I don't think a triummaterate would hold very long; just like the ancient triumvirates, all members get greedy, and one overthrows the other(s).

    I disagree. The entire fleet was told NOT to engage, just to defend against imminent threats. They were probably only aiming for the starfighters as a result.

    On the shipbuilding, there is absolutely no reason for a light-based weapon to be more inaccurate than the focus of the beam is over any distance; the only possible reason could be that they were human-operated, and that humans can't point. And I don't think the Executor was poorly designed; it was made by the creme de la creme in shipbuilding these days, namely the KDY yards. It's development parameters just weren't precision, efficiency and a good bang for buck ratio; the parameters were powerful, BIG, scary and very profitable. That made them expensive to build, hard to maintain and costly to operate, yes, but so what? The Empire's resources were virtually limitless.

    On a more geeky note, I do not understand why so much of the equipment is operated by humans or droids; both are way over the top. As a youthful programmer, my estimate would be that if there was one human on the command deck pointing out the targets, a single modern Core 2 processor would be enough to point and fire the guns at maximum rate and efficiency (it's basic trigonometry... Easy). Same goes for a lot of things. There is not enough automation going on; at the Star Wars level of technology, you would need maybe twelve men to operate a ship like the Executor: Captain, 1st, and 2nd Lieutenants, Navigator, Weapons Officer, Medical Officer, Technical Officer, Fighter Command Officer, Quartermaster and three Ensigns. Maybe add a few techs to repair the ship, and you can automate everything else; Fighters, guns, food processing, engine maintenance, fueling, etc. etc.. Computers can do all these things; as long as a human makes the tactical and strategical decisions, the execution is best left over to computers. And I'm talking our universe computers here; no artificial intelligence etc., just glorified calculators.

    Disagree, for the reasons stated above. The Executor and all the other attending Star Battlecruisers, Star Cruisers, Star Destroyers, Frigates and Corvettes would have pulverized the Rebel fleet. Literally. Heck, there probably were more Imperial capital ships there then there were Rebel Fighters.

    And secondly, you are forgetting the massive TIE Fighter complements the fleet carried. Had the fleet been ordered to engage, the TIE Fighters would have made short work of the Rebel X-wings; they were outnumbered what, ten to one? Fifty to one? A hundred to one? And as you know that the Rebel's success depended upon their fighters, the day would have been lost for the rebellion.

    Thirdly, you make a big mistake in assuming the Imperial fleet to be immovable. We know there were quite a bit of Imperial-II-class Star Destroyers available, and we know that these could outfly the Falcon. Therefore, the Star Destroyers at least would have met all Ackbars maneuvering.

    Fourthly, you seem to assume the Imperial fleet lacked capable commanders. While I would agree that politics played too great a part in the selections of the commanders, I would like to point out that to come into a position were politi
  5. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    There's a difference. Unstable triumvirates and troikas tend to emerge in revolutionary situations, where leaders who're essentially "new men" command armed client-bases that are large and newly-formed.

    Hapan power is more established and territorial, and the historical parallel would be a regency: especially with the perception of a threat from the Empire, the Hapan nobility and trade-unions would probably be able to co-operate and rally around a compromise candidate, or even the concept of the captured figure of Allana.

    :p

    The limited accuracy of Star Destroyers' long-range guns is (non-movie) canon. And, I mean, look at how much the Devastator had to fire to hit Tantive IV at a range of a few kilometers.

    :p

    I suspect that the Imperials would have also had authorization to open fire on any ships coming close, either coming into attack, or trying to escape.

    Turbolasers aren't light-based. They're actually space jellyfish farts.

    Or, at least, they're based on exotic plasmas ("blaster gas") that can be imbued with esoteric properties that make things explode.

    I suspect the farting space-jellyfish on Bespin which produce some of the best-quality blaster gas in the Galaxy were bio-engineered by the Sith or something.

    All that, and the recoil of the guns and general vibration of the spaceframe will probably reduce the accuracy of turbolaser mountings.

    I always felt that KDY is a little bit over-rated (Corellia warranted a lot more ISDs and an SSD when the Empire sent fleets to defend its shipyards after Endor), and Executor was made at Fondor, not Kuat. Be careful of ill-informed fanon. ;)

    Yes, the Executor is big, but so what? What exactly can it do that a fleet of ordinary Star Destroyers can't?

    I mean, apart from being a much more complicated vehicle that requires most of the Empire's best junior officers simply to co-ordinate the crew. Sheer size alone requires a Super Star Destroyer's co-ordinating computers to juggle vastly increased information traffic, and that massive size also makes it so much trickier to maintain things like artificial gravity properly and consistently.

    By definition, the Ex also has all the catastrophic vulnerabilities of an individual Star Destroyer, some of them massively intensified, and with no additional defense against starfighter runs or close-range capital ship duels: but its loss as an individual unit will be MUCH more devastating.

    Let me put it this way: if the Empire had stuck with ordinary Star Destroyers, Endor wouldn't have been anything like such a resounding Rebel victory! :p

  6. Tahi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 5
    Maybe I'll try to keep both up, though?
    Keeping things up sounds like an admirable idea. ;) I second that.
  7. Alkibiades Jedi Knight

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    Dec 15, 2007
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    Well, McE, you?ve given me quite some food for thought... [:D] So, now I?m finally replying. And a long reply it is, too.

    You have a point about triumvirates; but I don?t think a regency would settle. Regencies need a very strongly established Royal House, which does not seem to exist on Hapes. In order for a young, unprotected and rivalled Royal Child to survive into (wo)manhood and to succeed in his/her own right it needs the unrestricted backing of powerful family members and the people, and preferably some mythological form of supreme legitimacy (Divine Right?).

    Historical references: the 1st and 2nd Stadtholderless eras, where heavy popular, historical and religious backing, in one case combined with support from the English Crown, were not enough to protect the position of the young Princes of Orange from the powerful regents and pensionaries (by issuing the Eternal Edict and the Abolishment of the Stadtholdership, respectively), and very serious crises (disaster year 1672 (Third Anglo-Dutch War) and French troops marching into Flanders (War of the Austrian Succession), respectively) were necessary for them to regain their positions.

    For another historical example, look at the mess that is the line of succession of the House of Plantagenet, to see what happens with young, unsupported princes. Richard III, the linear heir, was dumped in favour of Bolingbroke. Richard III himself treated his own nephews very badly after his brother?s death.

    Another example is how Prince William III of Orange and the Immortal Seven plotted and in the end did overthrow James, fearing the succession would go to his legitimate son. (Ironical how the ones mistreated as children do the same thing when they grow up ? Richard III of England, William III of Orange)

    Honestly, with the opposition and downright hatred she would have faced, combined with the lack of support, I don?t think Allana would have kept her life, much less her crown.

    They only need to keep them from escaping. So, only escaping ships would be fired on, not the attacking ones. No ships fled, so no Imperials fired. Simple as that.

    No, no and no. Firstly, they are definitely lightbased. Turbolasers are heavy lasercannons with large banks of capacitors. Lasercannons are very heavy blasters. And blasters are highly advanced energy weapons, of which we know there are two types: particle-based and plasma-based (YV, for example). Particle-based blasters are based on light, which is supported by the fact they carry a lot of energy combined with almost no momentum (if it were massive, and had to carry the great amount of energy, that energy would need to be kinetic, in which case a Jedi reflecting it with hi
  8. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Thanks. [face_tired] I read that comment, and the challenge of living up to expectations completely floored me.

    Let's see if I can do better now? :p

    Sadly, Alkibiades has left the boards while I've been idle; I'll deal with his comments if he returns, and wants me to continue... :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
  9. Vongchild Force Ghost

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    Apr 2, 2004
    star 5
    I think I know you well enough to know a Marakin fic when I see it, McEwok. o_O I think I'm a bit partial to the DN3 version at the moment, if only because there are more chapters. However, I think I prefer this version's Ben. He's more dynamic. :)
  10. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Actually, you don't. ;) I renounced Marakin about a year ago, when I realised how much it was distracting/detracting from my absolute favourite 'ship, A/T. :cool: [face_love]

    I'll bear that in mind. I'm planning to update this one to the point that the DN3 one has reached, though! :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
  11. Vongchild Force Ghost

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    Apr 2, 2004
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    You did? I am so behind the times! :oops: Are you still crack!ficcing Jaina/Lowie, or did I miss their breakup, too? Did my artwork go to waste? :p
  12. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    :p No, I still 'ship Jaina/Lowie, although the bunnies haven't been forthcoming recently. Cute human/Wookiee hybrid kids are still a planned plot-point, though. [face_mischief]

    I've been distracted by K/J 'fic, however, both reading and writing the stuff: like this one!! :D [face_whistling]

    - The Imperial Ewok
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