Discussion in 'Community' started by edgejedi88, Jan 25, 2006.
As far as CGI allows.
Maybe one of the writers likes folk art/music?
Like this guy.
i was sorely disappointed in the movie. i can remember seeing the original and immediately going to the arcade to play the video game. i was hoping Sam would enter the grid like Flynn. you know, doing the spread eagle. i think i even did it as i watched. the story was just so lacking. Flynn says "Dude" how many times? and father and son act like they just saw each other yesterday. and if you didnt see Castor as the turncoat, i mean he had the crazy eye as soon as you see him. i think was hacked me off the most was i paid $75 for the five of us to see it at the imax and i left feeling like i had been raped by a bright yellow light. my sons loved it. but, when they talk about it all they could go on about was the daft punk doods doing DJ. i thought CLU was the most exciting thing about it.
That's just how Flynn talks. In the first movie, he says stuff like that often (he even says "man" four times within a single minute at one point).
Tron Legacy Revisited.
Upon the second viewing on New years eve:
The main problem I found to be with the film was that the protagonist Sam Flynn played by Garret Hedlund is poorly fleshed out. When the rebellious Sam is reunited with his long-lost genius father Kevin Flynn, his character motive disintegrates. And doesn't return until the last 25mins of the film. For the rest of the movie, there is no narrative and a strong protagonist to follow. The plot meanders between Clu's 2.0 CGI snarling, Quorra's profile enhanced by Olivia Wilde and the infrequent screen time of Kevin Flynn himself (Jeff Bridges). The movie does however improve by the scene chewing Michael Sheen playing Castor. And as for the valiant Tron (Bruce Boxleiter) for which the original movie is named, his redemption is only an after thought. Â
Tron: Legacy at times strives for greatness but isn't concrete in it's footing. Unlike the first Matrix film, which succeeds in postulating a possible world outside our own. Flynn's solution to an ideal world is touched upon, whereby he gives only some slight insight into the dimensions of the utopian model; self creating programs, or otherwise "Isomorph" beings. The recent Tron "redesign" just sputters into the consciousness like an uncontrollable light cycle then abruptly veers off direction.
Watching this movie in Imax 3-D was an other-worldly experience, where I throughly enjoyed and I was quite saddened to realize that an end was soon to come. This film is glorious to look at, and I felt like an inhabitant of the "The Grid". Almost as if I was like one of those floating moths drawn to a bright and beautiful blue neon flame, my anticipation grew and fluttered towards the final end scene, however I felt the "zap" of a unsatisfying ending and the snap back into a knowing familiar world.
After seeing the movie a second time, I felt fuller by the experience, there's so much visual distractions the first time, that the second layer doesn't become clear. Tron: Legacy begins with the search for a lost father, the discovery of a new world, and returns with a new found knowledge that will bring hope to our world. This high-concept has worked successfully before in such films as Star Wars, and The Matrix. This time the latest Tron foray shoots for the stars but lands just short of the moon.
You sound like a critical journalist, you should look into it. Okay, I'm confused by a number of things this film does not explain. The Clu program from Tron Legacy clearly can not be the same Clu program from the original film, since he was derezzed early in the film. The original film ends with Kevin Flynn getting control of Enron from the previous CEO Dillinger. I'm guessing he then creates another Clu program to redesign the "grid" after the destruction of the MCP. Then sometime in between the two films this Clu program betrays him, in true Darth Vader fashion. The ending of Tron Legacy is kind of confusing. (here is the part where you leave this thread if you haven't seen Tron Legacy) For one thing, what the hell happened to Kevin Flynn? Did he die? All I saw was Clu got absorbed into him and then Flynn lit up like an electronic Santa Clause. It didn't make sense that Quorra could leave the "grid" since she is a program. This suggests that programs who leave the "grid" become flesh and blood. How does that make sense? Lastly I will say this: what is the device that Sam hangs around his neck at the end of the film?
I'll guess at a couple of your answers:
Quorra had Flynn's disk.
The necklace was a flash drive big enough to hold the entire grid (sligh difference in technology since the grid was built).
The laser that disintegrates people, buts them into the grid, and allows them out but re-molecularizing them (didn't think I'd ever use that word), can also take the information of humanoid programs and build them based on their program form and a DNA super widget extrapolator?
Who is going to explain the joys of female biology to Quorra the computer program? Where is she going to get her SSN and other ID?
You are correct- the original Clu was was derezzed by Sark. However, you don't have "guess" that Flynn made another Clu- the bad guy in Legacy is, essentially, Clu 2.0, and we see Flynn creating him in Legacy during Clu's flashback in Flynn's safehouse (a great little moment by Bridges, since that's the only scene where Clu acts like the "cheery" Clu from the original film). So, that's definitively established in the film.
Also, The Grid in Legacy is referred to as a "new Grid" and is on a closed system in Flynn's basement- it is not the same system the MCP was on in the original film (so, it's technically not a "redesign"- they weren't changing an existing system, they were building a new one from the ground-up). Tron was the only program brought over from the "old system".
Likewise, the betrayal between films is the earlier flashback from Kevin's POV.
That's the payoff to the line by Quorra during her exchange with Sam before they retire to their bedrooms. Sam asks her why, if Flynn created Clu, why doesn't he just end him? Quorra says that would "require reintegration" and that neither one "would survive the event".
So, Flynn absorbing Clu was the "reintegration", and the resulting explosion was "the event".
Now, as far as Quorra knows, that means Kevin didn't survive. But it's really open-ended enough that Flynn could return somehow in the sequels (either alive or as a digital Obi-Wan, or maybe something else).
The laser is apparently a two-way road. Flesh and blood can be digitized into data and vice-versa. The original film said:
"See, what we plan to do is to turn something into nothing, and back again. So you might just as well have said "Here goes something, here comes nothing!""
So, Quorra would technically qualify as "nothing" becoming "something".
Beyond that, Legacy itself says that, with Flynn's disc, it is possible for programs to leave The Grid and enter the real world- it's the whole point of Clu's plan (bring his army aboard the Rectifier into the real world).
And the device around Sam's neck is presumably some sort of flashdrive (he uses it earlier in the film when breaking into Encom) to which he has downloaded something onto (whether it's the entire Grid or just Flynn's data, remains to be seen).
Also, nice detail there- the design on the flashdrive is the same as the identity discs from the first film.
Didn't they also establish that Quorra was an ISO not a program, in essence a living being?? I am not sure how that works exactly, but that might have something to do with why she can be given flesh and blood in the real world.
She was an ISO, but I don't think that has anything to do with her ability to leave The Grid- Clu and all his minions were Basics (the term apparent;y used to describe non-ISO programs in the Evolution video game) and, with Flynn's disc, Clu and Flynn both seemed confident they could also escape.
The design on the flash drive being the same as the identity disc is probably because, Flynn's discos became the flash drive when Sam left the grid, since it couldn't exist as a disc in the real world. By the way have you played or watched Tron Evolution? It explains how CLU 2.0 went bad. It was a virus.
Ya know your last point was what I was thinking about the most. If Sam and Quorra were headed toward a romantic relationship, (which the end of the film suggest they were) in the real world you wonder how Quorra would handle it if Sam took her to a restaurant. It would be like a scene from "Cocoon." Her unfamiliarity with the real world, might be funny. It was funny in this scene: Quorra:You know Jules Verne?Samf course.Quorra:What's he like? Something that I keep seeing in films like this is the Sci-fi hopeless romantic bit, It's starting to get on my nerves, because it really doesn't work like that. It's basically where the hero or heroine (it is usually the hero) has no love life can't find the right girl and then they finally find them in some fantastical world or across time or something. May be that's why I can't find her she must be in some digital world.
I was never entirely sure on that part. Flynn's disc was the master key to the Grid was part of why everyone was after it.
But I was never sure if Clu planned to materialize his whole army. As Clu was a direct copy of Flynn (based on that mirror scene where he was created), as well as having more powers than normal as he was supposed to continue building the Grid in Flynn's absence, I thought maybe the disc would work for him, as he's perhaps a physical copy of Flynn too. Not sure about anybody else though.
Obviously Quorra didn't end up looking like Flynn outside, but then there was that scene where Flynn was accessing her program and what looked like a DNA helix showed up. So one of my theories is that one way that ISOs differed from normal programs was that they had DNA or something, a new form of life, and that's part of why Flynn thought they could change so many fields.
So, not sure if any program with Flynn's disc could've escaped, if Clu (as Flynn's copy) with Flynn's disc could've escaped and then connected that isolated server to the rest of the world, or if Quorra could've left on her own, or if even she needed Flynn's disc to leave. Either that or that was just a switch so that Clu would go for Flynn's disc only to discover he wasn't wearing it anymore, giving Sam enough time to escape.
Seems like Sam downloaded the entire Grid onto that flash drive at the end. Kind of funny that all the data contained on those big, ancient servers can now fit into something that'll fit in the palm of your hand.
Not sure what he'd do with it, but then, its hard to speculate what shape the Grid would be in now, with Clu gone, and probably most of Clu's army gone too, and Tron missing and Flynn somewhere (though Flynn lives, of course ). If there's ever a sequel, let's hope they go into that.
The flashdrive isn't the physical manifestation of Flynn's identity disc, as Sam already has it at the start of the movie when he breaks into Encom. The design on the flashdrive is just an easter egg/homage to the frisbees of the first film, since the updated identity discs are now chakrams.
It looks like Kevin instructed Quorra on some of the real world through the bookshelf contents and the dinner table scene (complete with a whole pig and asparagus) would suggest Quorra wouldn't have any trouble eating at a restaurant.
However, there's definitely humor to be found in her fish out of water nature now- as the Jules Verne line attests, there's a lot of history and details she'd be unfamiliar with.
He definitely did- otherwise there was no reason for the Rectifier, the army and Clu's big speech. Clu could have just taken his command ship straight to the portal after he had the disc instead of stopping for the troops to load up and give his speech.
You'll note that the Rectifier doesn't activate and depart until the disc is plugged in- Flynn even exclaims at that moment that Clu has figured out how to bring them all with him.
Flynn does mention "digital DNA"- though presumably this is a euphemism and the actual double helix imagery is a representation of the complex code that is partially beyond Flynn. But you're correct- thats the reason why Flynn thought the ISOs were so important, as they were a spontaneously generated intelligent lifeform.
Here's a pretty good elucidation by Kevin Flynn himself about the differences between ISOs and programs, enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYoJsapy_fA
I haven't played through the Tron game, and wikipedia isn't always the most accurate place, but based on Youtube videos I thought Clu created the virus villain of the game? Seems to weaken the story if all of Clu's crimes can just be blamed on a virus. From what I've seen, the game just shows how... cruel Clu has become.
Huh, I knew Amazon had an exclusive track, and not surprised Itunes had a few exclusive tracks too, but didn't realize getting the complete movie soundtrack would require going to so many sources. And I thought video game retailers went all-out with pre-order specials for the big games. Is it too old-fashioned of me that I just bought the CD? Oh well, at least it still had most of the major tracks (Derezzed, Game Has Changed, Ending Credits, etc.). Wonder if they'll ever release another CD with everything on it.
I was just pondering the last couple days about missing music from the soundtrack as I've attempted to reorder the track list to match the film- I definitely noticed the one track missing from between End of Line and Derezzed.
Tron Legacy Chronological Track List:
1. The Grid
2. The Son of Flynn
3. Encom pt. 1
4. Encom pt. 2
9. Round One
11.The Game has Changed
12.Father and Son
15.Adagio for Tron
16.End of Line
20.Sea of Simulation
29.Tron Legacy Credits
Music Screening Order
*This does not include Journey's "Separate Worlds" and Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of These).
To answer one of my own questions, looks like Rinzler was named after Lucasfilm's Rinzler due to the making of book being on thhe table during story meetings.
Now, if i can only figure out the furthest distance an identity disc was thown i'll be all set.
That'd be an awesome origin for Rinzler's name if that turns out to be true.
And, Whisper- thanks for that list, I'll definitely have to track down the other tracks. At least it looks like most of my guesses as to track order (with what I have so far) are correct.
Separate Worlds and Sweet Dreams are easy enough to place- between Overture (which plays as Sam approaches the Arcade) and Recognizer (which is when he arrives in The Grid).
One thing, though...
Shouldn't those two be reversed? Outland (at least the one on the US release, whichever "part" that actually is) clearly happens during Quorra's lightrunner trip through the mountains to bring Sam to Kevin. And, presumably, Father and Son is the music that plays when they finally meet after that journey, before Flynn's flashback for Adagio.
Ok, using that as a guide I managed to track down the missing tracks, plus some additional sample ones. Here's what I have for an order so far:
1) Flynn Remembers (actually from the "score samples" I list later, but this is from the Comic-Con Teaser, so I place it first as it's a nice lead-in to The Grid)
2) The Grid
3) The Son of Flynn
4) Encom Part I (bonus track)
5) Encom Part II (bonus track)
6a) "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" by Journey
6b) "Sweet Dreams" by Eurythmics
10) Round One (bonus track)
12) The Game Has Changed
13) Outlands, Pt. I
14) Father and Son (bonus track)
15) Adagio For TRON
17) Outlands, Pt. II (bonus track-I'm trying to remember exactly where this is from, but that distinctive organ music eludes me. My best guess is this is when Sam heads back into the city with the vintage lightcycle- the opening definitely seems like it)
18) Reflections (bonus track- Clu's flashback)
19) End of Line
20) Castor (bonus track- club music)
23) Sea of Simulation (bonus track)
24) Solar Sailer (apparently only used in the credits, but I assume it was meant to be placed here if it had been used)
25) Sunrise Prelude (bonus - presumably them talking about the sun)
27) Disc Wars
30) Flynn Lives
32) TRON Legacy (End Titles)
Score Sample Tracks:
1) Trailer Opening
2) Flynn Remembers
3) City Reveal (became "Armory")
4) Victory (became "Recognizer")
5) Battle (became "Fall")
6) Alan Bradley's Message (combination of material)
Unrelated to the music, the more I think about it, the more I am looking forward to finding out the backstory to Castor and Flynn- there's definitely some kind of history there. Castor wasn't "just" playing all the angles. Something happened to make him no longer believe in users, and it's really implied it's because of something Flynn did or did not do.
All his vile taunting/gloating during the EOL battle, for one ("The game has changed- Son of Flynn!", "Meet the son of our maaaakahhhh!") and subsequent reaction when Flynn looks at him.
Beyond that, it would explain why Quorra is hiding Castor's sector disc- because of whatever happened between them, Flynn might not approve of her having it (or something to that effect).
...unless Evolution has already covered this part of the story?
Here are the adjustments I'd make:
End of Line, then Castor, then Reflections (which is intercut with Castor)
C.L.U. prior to Rectifier
Finale I'm really not sure about, though it wouldn't surprise me if it is after the End Titles music, since credits running for 7:39 seems believable for an FX blockbuster.
Solar Sailer is used while Flynn repairs Quorra, IIRC--I'm 99% sure it appears. Sunset Prelude is used during the sunset discussion on the solar sailer and is reprised during the closing sunset scene. And the organs in Outlands, Pt. II appear as Sam rides the elevator to the club, I think.
I think you're right about Reflections- though the trick is I think Castor is split up in the film, because Daft Punk change from that into Derezzed when the battle begins, I believe.
So, I think Castor could go either way. I may, personally, keep Reflections before EOL even if it doesn't reflect the actual chronology, just so the four club tracks are all together- but that's just me and not the actual film order.
I've seen a lot of people's lists say Solar Sailor is only used in the credits (which is why it's so often listed last), but I'll have to keep an ear open for it the next time I see the movie- either way, I'd want to keep it where it was supposed to be.
I'll also stick for the credits too, to see if it's Finale or Prelude or something else after the End Credits music (I only stuck around the first time to see if there was anything post-credits, subsequent viewings I preferred to depart normally to listen to audience reactions).
However, Finale does have the same piece of music as Sunset at the end, so it could go either way.
Browsing the official site, there are some interesting tidbits to be found (though I'm unsure if these are mentioned in other sources):
-Sam's mother's name was Jordan Canas.
-Alan did marry Lora after the first movie.
-The "story" section confirms that over 1000 years have passed inside The Grid during Flynn's exile.
-The Grid's actual name is the "TRON System", with the city being "TRON City".
-The devices used to generate vehicles are the same used to create weapons, and they are called "batons".
-Baton-based vehicles are powered by the program using them and it requires further power to reform them if the vehicles are derezzed in combat. This does not apply to stand-alone vehicles like Flynn's cycle, lightrunners, etc.