Amph END OF LINE: TRON, Uprising, Legacy & TRON 3

Discussion in 'Community' started by edgejedi88, Jan 25, 2006.

  1. Nobody145 Force Ghost

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    Feb 9, 2007
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    I had heard the term Tron City before, although it was never really brought up in the movie, and anyway, with Clu in charge, the official name of the city doesn't really matter that much.

    Huh, nice to get confirmation that over a thousand years had passed on the Grid, and wow, guess that proves that Flynn really did age slower in there. And ouch, literally a millennium without seeing his son or another human being, no wonder he's so distant (or had to just stat meditating to pass the time). The way the site phrases it makes it sound like those were an interesting thousand years, but Evolution covers Flynn's coup and Quorra's escape, and so after that I had thought it was mostly just Clu consolidating his power.

    The Uprising cartoon is supposed to happen during that interval, right? If its just set during Clu's coup, then it'll strike me like the prequels, in that they'll fight, but they can't win. Not to mention, even in the movie itself Flynn mentions that though he fight, Clu just got stronger (probably using any resistance as an excuse to clamp down even further). Unless the cartoon focuses on the rebellious factions against Clu- not that powerful, but they're there, enough to try and appeal for Zuse to unite them, and Flynn was waiting to see if they could topple Clu (although not likely given Clu's army and what he could do to programs).

    Flynn's wife (and Sam's mother) is seen in the Betrayal comic, the first half ends with her giving birth to Sam.
  2. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I have to assume any references to TRON City are just script descriptions, unless there were deleted scenes mentioning it.

    I haven't played Evolution yet (I might just have to bite the bullet and spoiler myself through youtube videos, as I'm not gonna be able to afford a 360 to play it on anytime soon), but Uprising is supposed to happen after Flynn is in his safehouse, so if Evolution ends with Quorra's escape to the Outlands, then that would suggest Uprising is after Evolution.

    The writers talked about the series expanding on that resistance fighter with the scar, among other characters, so I suspect the show will concentrate on those resistance forces (who, as we saw in EOL, are capable of small victories- albeit potentially aided by Flynn's powers).

    The thing that's kinda baffling is Bruce will be playing Tron- whom Legacy implies was turned into Rinzler at the start of the coup, so how that works I'm unsure. Maybe he was just injured when Flynn fled, and kept going on as Tron for a bit longer before he was finally reprogrammed?
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    One question keeps bugging me, as it may be the only plot point not explained in the film: how did Clu send the page to Alan?

    Maybe it's explained somewhere else, but the three times I saw the film, I didn't see anything that could explain how, with the portal not open, Clu was able to, in any way, access an external communications system not connected to The Grid's standalone servers (and, if he could have sent a page- why not a program, or even himself? There's a lot of computer systems he could have had access through just via the telecommunication systems required to transmit a page.


    ...holy crap, Alan has Clu on his belt clip! :eek: [face_laugh]

    ...that would be a dark mirror to Sam having a copy of Flynn around his neck. So "Flynn Lives!", but also, "Clu Lives!" :-B .
  4. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    May 30, 2003
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    In exchange for providing tech support, Clu made a deal with his facebook friend, Clu-Thu-lu. Little did Clu know that this was the same virus from the other stories...
  5. Nobody145 Force Ghost

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    Feb 9, 2007
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    Hm, now that you mention that... I think the Betrayal comic might've had a prelude to that. I don't own all of it (hm, maybe gotta get around to buying it sometime), but in the first part, when Flynn is still building the City with Tron and Clu, he suddenly gets a phone call on his cell phone (not quite sure cell phones were that widespread in the 80s, but oh well, maybe Flynn built it himself, considering he was already thinking about wi-fi years before anyone else).

    The programs are surprised that Flynn can communicate with the outside just like that, as it was supposedly impossible (given they're on a closed system) as Flynn talks to someone (his wife I think). Clu just looks jealous and plotting in the background. This issue came out before the movie, but hm, never connected those incidents before. Now, that was back when the Portal was open, so that could be why Flynn could receive phone calls from outside. But then there's the question of how someone in the Grid can communicate with the outside with the time lag (like a reply could take days to arrive, given hours in there are seconds outside), but then the original movie had the same thing, when Tron was able to contact Alan-1 (I think that's what Tron called his User), so its not without precedent at least.

    I'm not sure if this theory was intended, but maybe since Flynn could get phone calls on the Grid, maybe Clu eventually got Flynn's phone, or it took him centuries to find a way to punch a phone signal out to Flynn's old friend, who knows. Yeah, the portal's closed, but if there was a signal in, maybe Clu eventually figured out how to send a signal out.

    Oh yeah, I think the Art of Tron Legacy book mentioned the Tron City name (as well as having lots of nice tidbits about the development of the movie, like the years long struggle to make a Tron sequel). They'll eventually clear up the timeline, hopefully. My memory of how Betrayal portrayed the coup is unfortunately a bit blurry now. My recollection is probably flawed, but in the comic I thought Clu ambushed them with his new Blackguards, Tron held them off so Flynn could escape, and then he was overwhelmed and they left him for dead, but after they left, he got back up and limped away. I think I flipped through a bookstore copy before I saw the movie, so I was surprised when in the movie it turned out Rinzler was Tron. Of course, in the movie itself we see that Flynn barely got away as he heard Tron screaming, and then its implied the Clu converted Tron into Rinzler at that point. There's still some room, like saying Clu just subdued Tron and locked him up, Tron broke out and then later after the resistance failed Tron was converted into Rinzler. But then Flynn said he never saw Tron after he had escaped, which implies that Tron wasn't part of any resistance Flynn managed to throw together in the early days after the Coup. I've only glanced at a few Evolution videos, so I'm not sure how much time the game itself covers. I know the beginning is when Clu supposedly agrees to share power with the ISOs and the end is Quorra crashing in the Outlands and Flynn finding her, but not sure about the middle. Oh well, here's hoping Uprising is easier to follow.
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Ok, finally read Betrayal. I think I've figured out the chronology (not having yet watched/played Evolution, but going off of th e few todbits I've seen so far) as there is a time jump between the end of Betrayal (with the Sea of Simulation being poisoned and the suggestion of Basics and ISOs working together (the chick in charge of the ISOs is here but not yet on Clu's co-admin level)) and the epilogue, which depicts the coup and a montage of Clu's rise to power as we see it in the film.

    That epilogue also shows Tron surviving his battle with Clu, injured, and taking off in a lightcycle.

    Sooo...that would give us:

    -Betrayal (pre-epilogue)
    -Evolution
    -Betrayal (epilogue/coup) (perhaps some overlap with the end of Evolution?)
    -Uprising (Tron still alive, not yet Rinzler)
    -Legacy
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Ok, after a 4th (and probably, final) theatrical viewing, a few more observations:

    -The Rinzler sound can be heard immediately after Clu strikes Tron offscreen in the coup flashback, which would suggest that was the moment Rinzler was created (but would seemingly contradict Betrayal and Uprising- so many that was just the moment the infection was first applied).

    -I never noticed it before, but I finally realized how Castor tipped-off Clu that Sam was in the End of Line Club: the lights that turn on outside of the tower to illuminate it were the signal to Clu, who sees (and recognizes it for what it is) when he looks at the city from Flynn's safehouse.

    I previously thought the former shot was just another establishing shot and the latter was Clu looking athe portal light in the sky. I'm not sure if everyone but me realized that before now, but I'm impressed that the film still has stuff for me to discover after so many viewings (though this particular example probably should have been made more obvious as it's kinda important to leave so vague).


    I also paid close attention to the soundtrack to try and perfect my order (which includes some backtracking from last list changes), but a few tracks are split up in the movie so nothings going to be perfect without doing some editing to split tracks into separate files, but here we go:


    1) Flynn Remembers*
    2) The Grid
    3) The Son of Flynn
    4) Encom Part I (bonus track)
    5) Encom Part II (bonus track)
    6) Overture
    6a) "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" by Journey
    6b) "Sweet Dreams" by Eurythmics
    7) Recognizer
    8) Armory
    9) Arena
    10) Round One (bonus track)
    11) Rinzler
    12) The Game Has Changed
    13) Outlands, Pt. I
    14) Father and Son (bonus track)
    15) Adagio For TRON
    16) Nocturne
    17) Outlands, Pt. II (this is definitely Sam returning to the city)
    18) End of Line (Outlands II leads into this in the movie, so I've changed my mind to reflect the movie order)
    19) Reflections (bonus track)
    20) Castor (bonus track- actually begins before Reflections, but only a small portion, so I'm keeping it after Reflections to keep the lead into Derezzed)
    21) Derezzed
    22) Fall
    23) Solar Sailer (almost certain it's the launch of the sailer, with Quorra's repair; this also is reused in the end credits between the End Titles and Finale)
    24) Sea of Simulation (bonus track- though I still don't recall it in the film, it must have been used subtly or not at all)
    25) Rectifier
    26) Disc Wars (part of this track plays before Rectifier, IIRC)
    27) C.L.U. (this is the music used during the dogfight)
    28) Arrival
    29) Flynn Lives
    30) Sunrise Prelude (bonus track- this is the piece of music to close the film with)
    31) TRON Legacy (End Titles)
    32) Finale (the thing is here, I'm almost certain the first minute or so of this track is used in the film between Flynn Lives and Sunrise Prelude, for the Arcade scenes, but the rest, with the "bigger" finish, is definitely the end of the credits sequence)

    So, if one were to perfect things, you'd have to break up Castor, Disc Wars & Finale, as well as duplicate Solar Sailer.


    There's also one bit of music missing from the soundtrack so far- the music for Clu in the EOL club (though I've read music from Clu's introduction is also missing, I wasn't able to take specific note of it).
  8. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    Jun 9, 2009
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    I'm now of the opinion that the entire sequence is Sea of Simulation/Sunrise Prelude. I don't hear Solar Sailer at all.

    I think the final arcade scene is reused Father and Son, which makes sense, thematically.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    You might be right about Father & Son being reused, actually. It's just that slow hum lead-in to the Finale track that makes me reconsider- I'm almost certain it's not in the credits version (lost with the inclusion of Solar Sailer, perhaps?). But now that you suggest it, F&S reused does sound right.

    If that's the case, then Sunrise Prelude fits more cleanly before Credits and Finale- and would explain why they were ordered that way on the original CD in the first place.

    Sea of Simulation I'm just not sure about- that track sounds so much more different than anything else in the score (it's..I dunno, "trancy" and maybe a little "cheaper" sounding?) that I'd think would stick out like a sore thumb in the film if it was used, and, even while listening specifically for that piece of music this time, I still didn't pick it up anywhere.

    I'm almost certain I heard Solar Sailer while they're boarding/launching it, and that bass beat it has under the softer music hits my recollection for the rest of the scene more than the higher-pitched trance plucks/beeps of SOS.


    ..dammit, we're not going to be able to finalize/confirm any of this till it hits DVD.:oops:
  10. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    Sea of Simulation is just really buried in the mix, I think. I find it easy to spot because, as you say, it's so distinctive.

    I really like the track, actually--it's nicely retro and reminds me of the Vangelis tracks used in Carl Sagan's Cosmos.
  11. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    By the way, T2Q, I watched the Evolution walkthrough on YouTube and I enjoyed it more than Betrayal. The gameplay gets a bit monotonous, but the story is quite effective at presenting a set-up to the film. Plenty of Quorra and CLU in particular, and it feels like a bridge between the tones of the two films. Plus it's always cool hearing Bruce Boxleitner.
  12. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

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    Apr 11, 2003
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    The Dvd better have a soundtrack only viewing option...

    Speaking of, are there any notable sci-fi films other than The Matrix that do give you an option to view the film with only the soundtrack?
  13. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    That option won't be on the DVD. Kosinski asked about the possibility but was knocked back by Disney because it'd eat into soundtrack sales.
  14. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

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    I could understand if Daft Punk were concerned about soundtrack sales if a soundtrack only option was available on the dvd, but Disney, what do they care?

    I think it would be very poor if they didn't allow for this viewing option as I would love to watch the whole movie without the dialogue.
  15. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    The soundtrack in on the Walt Disney Records label, so Disney has as much of a stake in soundtrack sales as Daft Punk, if not more.
  16. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    May 30, 2003
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    The Sixth Day or 6th Day (whichever).
    Decent Arnie SF movie.
  17. T-R- Chosen One

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    First, I wanted to say thanks to you guys for sequencing the tracks. I've always been terrible at doing this myself [face_hypnotized]

    Although I'm almost certain this has been mentioned before, one thing that I find as a really nice touch is the fact that Tron's suit has the 4-square T design similar to the original movie.
  18. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    Jun 9, 2009
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    Yeah, me too. I didn't pick up on it on my first viewing, but once you know, it's a great visual link.

    Also, Boxleitner's voice is very recognisable when he says "User..." in the initial disc game.
  19. Nobody145 Force Ghost

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    Feb 9, 2007
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    Wait, some DVDs have a soundtrack only option?! Huh, never heard of that. Then again, most movies don't have a soundtrack as good as this one, so the thought never really occurred to me. Hm, maybe they could make it Blu-ray only? Disney is pushing their Blu-ray collection a lot, especially by including DVD versions (probably to get more people to pick up the Blu-ray version just in case they get Blu-ray players in the future).

    Gotta get around to watching more of Evolution, or even buying it someday. I've seen the ending and beginning, but don't there's a "story scene only" list of videos yet, and its kind of hard to keep waiting for 10 minute videos to load only to find there's about 30 seconds important stuff with the rest being random gameplay.

    Was the End of Line Club really that bright? Hm, maybe I'll go rewatch the movie one more time before it disappears from theaters. I just thought that when Castor told the DJs to change the music that was some secret signal to call the Blackguard or something like that.

    I do wonder if they'll clear up the timeline. Betrayal shows Tron surviving Clu's initial attack and riding off, presumably to continue the fight (which is why during the movie I was saddened to see that Tron had been corrupted to become Rinzler, Clu's top warrior). Flynn's dialogue indicates that was the last time he saw Tron (and the first time Rinzler and Flynn met face to face, he started to remember). Maybe it could just be chalked up as being based on an earlier version of the script (Transformers and even Star Wars' tie-in fiction has that problem sometimes).

    I sometimes wonder about when Tron started dual-wielding discs if that was the moment he was infected. He was just desperately trying to give Flynn time to escape, but still, something about the expression when Tron saw he was holding two discs. He quickly adapted to fighting with two, but still. And yeah, the movie made it look like that was when Tron was converted by Clu, as Flynn escape.

    By the way, we all know by now that Quorra is an Iso. Was there an explanation for why she looked like a Program? Well, its mostly a cosmetic difference, just that even during the opening of Evolution, we see what the rest of the Isos look like (with the white glowing clothes), but Quorra is already sneaking around in black. Unless she was already worried and hid her identity just in case. Gotta go watch more cutscenes eventually.
  20. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    Gibson (from Evolution) is an ISO, too, and he looks like this. Black clothes, etc.
  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Oh, one other detail I noticed in my viewing- the police department is shown to belong to "Center City". Is that a real city, a fictional one, or a description of where the police department is within a city?

    I only ask because it doesn't look like LA, so I've been curious as to where on the west coast Encom really is (even though the website info says it is in LA).


    Yeah- it's not used too often now, since the soundtrack market has weakened significantly, but 10 years ago it was a feature you'd see on occasion. I know one of Beetlejuice's releases had it. The first Collector's Edition of Apollo 13 also sorta had one, but they just included the entire score on the menu screen, using chapter skip to advance through the tracks.


    After he tells them to do that, we see an exterior shot of the tower as two giant spot-lights turn on.


    I think we'll have to wait until Uprising to get a better sense of events. But from what we're told- Flynn is already in his safehouse by time Uprising is happening, so a starting-to-be-infected Tron could be involved without Flynn knowing he was alive. Having Tron around might explain why Kevin once dreamed of Tron "years" ago also.
  22. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

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    Jun 9, 2009
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    So I wonder if they'll use The Clone Wars as a template for how to successfully make an animated spinoff based on a SF film series.

    I'd be quite happy if TRON lived on in a form similar to TCW, so long as Lisberger stays involved and computer science experts are kept on as consultants.
  23. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    May 30, 2003
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    I wouldn't mind a TCW style re-image for the Tron Cartoon--sort of a dark version of ReBoot...
  24. Nobody145 Force Ghost

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    Feb 9, 2007
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    Huh, I just thought Flynn used to dream about Tron in the early days of his exile, but as time passed, the dreams faded. Although given that the site says a millennium has passed in the Grid, wonder exactly what Flynn meant by years (decades, centuries?).

    I noticed the Center City sign here and there during my viewing, but I just assumed that they were using a made-up name (sorta like how DC uses names like Metropolis, Central City, Gotham City, etc.).
  25. T-R- Chosen One

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    Aug 13, 2003
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    Just wanting to confirm after seeing the movie again and checking out Evolution (pictures below), but it appears that Tron has white coloring instead of blue. Any idea why?
    [image=[image=http://tron.wikia.com/index.php?title=Tron&image=TRON_Upgrade_25-jpg]]
    [image=http://tron.wikia.com/index.php?title=Tron&image=Screen_shot_2010-11-01_at_10-11-49_PM-png]