End of Raiders

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by tomkat364, Dec 7, 2010.

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  1. tomkat364 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 1
    So at the end of Raiders, the Germans open the ark and there is dust/sand in the ark. They are surprised, but Indy seems to have a smug grin. This could mean he is pleased to see them disappointed, but I have always wondered if it was meant to imply the Jones had at some point already opened the ark and removed the tablets. Similar to his bag of sand trick in the beginning of the movie. I doubt it, but anyone have any insights on this?
  2. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    No he's grinning because he understood that the tablets wouldn't be in some type of fantastic shape. It wouldn't be some type of amazing treasure. He's an archaeologist and understands how things age.

    But there's no way he's opened the ark before. He seems genuinely surprised when the apparitions start flying around.

  3. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    But Belloq is an archeologist, too, and he doesn't appear to understand that "It wouldn't be some type of amazing treasure." Why wouldn't it be? Why wouldn't the stone tablets of the 10 Commandments be intact within? Stone gradually erodes into sand over millions of years, from weathering and other natural forces, not sitting protected inside a metal box for ~3000 years. The soft gold of the Ark is far more likely to have deteriorated over time than solid rock.

    Jones is far from "genuinely surprised when the apparitions start flying around". His eyes are closed and he doesn't know that there are apparitions. But what he does know -- and what he vocally tells Marion -- is that you are not supposed to "look at it" -- whatever "it" is.

    My interpretation, considering the above factors, is that Jones doesn't know what's inside the Ark anymore than Belloq or Toht or any of them. He hasn't opened it. But he is a better archeologist than Belloq, knows more about the supernatural and religion, and guesses, correctly, that the divine power contained inside the Ark will destroy anyone vain enough to look upon it.
  4. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Merlin
    But Belloq is an archeologist, too, and he doesn't appear to understand that "It wouldn't be some type of amazing treasure." Why wouldn't it be? Why wouldn't the stone tablets of the 10 Commandments be intact within? Stone gradually erodes into sand over millions of years, from weathering and other natural forces, not sitting protected inside a metal box for ~3000 years. The soft gold of the Ark is far more likely to have deteriorated over time than solid rock.

    Jones is far from "genuinely surprised when the apparitions start flying around". His eyes are closed and he doesn't know that there are apparitions. But what he does know -- and what he vocally tells Marion -- is that you are not supposed to "look at it" -- whatever "it" is.

    My interpretation, considering the above factors, is that Jones doesn't know what's inside the Ark anymore than Belloq or Toht or any of them. He hasn't opened it. But he is a better archeologist than Belloq, knows more about the supernatural and religion, and guesses, correctly, that the divine power contained inside the Ark will destroy anyone vain enough to look upon it.



    I didn't literally mean Indy saw the apparitions. I just meant that the guy is not much of a believer until the weird noises and stuff start happening. He's pretty much a scientist. An agnostic. So he wasn't expecting a bunch of crazy stuff to happen. He just expected that Belloq wouldn't find what he was looking for.

    So there's no way Indy has opened the ark. He's just smarter than Belloq. But he's also a skeptic. He's not a big believer of the supernatural at all. Remember his "hocus pocus" comment to Brody? To the government officials when describing the ark? He's not a religious or even a spiritual person. It's only after the ark is opened and weird noises and things start happening that he's like "what the ....?"
  5. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    He must have been "expecting a bunch of crazy stuff to happen", because he tells Marion to close her eyes before a bunch of crazy stuff starts happening! Before any noises, before any apparitions, Indy shouts: "Don't look at it, Marion!"

    The only explanation for this is that, in the course of the adventure, Jones has realized that "lightning, fire, the power of God" is real, and that he was in fact mistaken in his earlier disbelief.
  6. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    No you may be right. But we don't ever really see that conversion onscreen. But that's ok. Raiders isn't a huge character study. It's a roller coaster ride and an excellent one at that.
  7. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Agreed and agreed.

    The real inconsistency is in making ToD a prequel, in which Jones clearly accepts the existence of supernatural forces ("I understand their [the sankara stones'] power now", only to reject it again two years later to Brody in Raiders.
  8. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    The real inconsistency is in making ToD a prequel, in which Jones clearly accepts the existence of supernatural forces ("I understand their [the sankara stones'] power now", only to reject it again two years later to Brody in Raiders.


    You know that never once occurred to me. But yeah you're right.

    It's all ruined now. Thanks for ruining the second greatest trilogy of all-time for me! :_|

    :p
  9. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Yep, that one occurred to me a while back too. Its always bugged me. I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on it. Just one of those things that goes with the territory of making things the wrong way round I guess. Imagine if such an error could be found in the finished Star Wars saga...

    "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough..."

    Oh wait... :p
  10. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    I always figured that he was just pleased that the Nazis were disappointed in not getting the all powerful thing they were hoping for.

    As to why he told Marion to close her eyes before all the weird crap happened? He probably had a gut feeling that something screwy would happen.
  11. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4
    indy probably had a bad feeling about it.
    (har har)
  12. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Hell, I'm an atheist, but after being dragged under a bloody truck and surviving, I'd start believing too.
  13. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Did an atheist just say "Hell"??? :eek:






    :p
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Then again, one could reasonably consider the mythology of Hinduism to be mutually exclusive with that of Christianity, so experiencing the former in reality could very easily enforce doubts about the possibility of the latter.

    Besides, I think what arc Indy has in ToD is less a religious conversion and more about realizing that there are more important things than fortune and glory. And that lesson certainly doesn't seem to have been unlearned by the time of Raiders.
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