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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Ender Sigh's Srs Biz lol @ Murica Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Harpua, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I think you all fail to appreciate that the drone strike programme is a logical extension of a lot of the missile strike policies Clinton so heavily favoured. Liberals are especially uncomfortable with blood on their hands, but not with remote strike capabilities...
     
  2. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Er, murica is bang in debt. If interest rates ever go up you'll see how economically sound you are as a country.
     
  3. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Ender, I don't see how it matters where the drone program originates. How does that change my point? And since when did I say Clinton had great foreign policy either?


    So I'm supposed to be excited about the lesser of two evils? That's basically our standard for US Presidential elections. And I don't accept it.

    Never mind that you're also indulging in some really wild speculation there. In reality most Presidents of both parties wind up making pretty much the same foreign policy decisions on the whole anyway. They all cater to the same allies, turn a blind eye to the same human rights catastrophes, invade the same countries for dubious reasons. That's what happens when your country isn't even really run by the politicians or their ideals, but rather by powerful and wealthy special interest groups. Hooray!
     
    heels1785 likes this.
  4. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    Yep. Clinton never met a tomahawk he didn't love.

    Obama has been, with some exceptions, a vast improvement over W.

    The whole reason the neocons on Fox and in D.C. are wailing and gnashing is not because of what Obama has done but rather what he has not.
     
  5. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    sj, did you miss all of Dubya's Disastrous Decisions in Diplomacy, the exciting 8 year long saga during which time a barely qualified man ruined most of America's prestige, eroded alliances, and left the world markedly more broken than when he inherited it?
     
  6. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Um.... No? Again, what does that have to do with Obama? Everyone knows how abysmal W was as President. So really I'm not sure why you're doing backflips to defend the guy who's continued and vastly expamded W's illegal drone program as a "good citizen" of the world. Are we just not counting the middle east as part of the world now?

    My point is that Obama says the right things, but he doesn't do many of the right things. His foreign policy may be an improvement in tone and rhetoric over W, but in substance he's not all that different. A pretty turd is still a turd.
     
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  7. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Now watch this drive
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
     
  9. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Obama is a pretty turd but W was pure diplomatic diarrhea.
     
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  10. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Ender.... I genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make. Yeah, I think our Presidents of both parties all wind up basically making the same foreign policy decisions. And my argument is that the only thing Obama does differently than others is to give better speeches and say nicer things about what he *wants* to do globally.

    So I don't know what your point is in quoting me saying the same thing in different ways. Nor do I understand why someone who hates America's foreign policy so much is now vehemently defending America's current poor foreign policy. Just because Obama says nice things...?

    Did you let Wocky sign into your account or something?
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
  12. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Pretty unique feat by Persepolis there, managing to be offensive to both fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims.
     
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  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I wrote a ten-page paper in grad school on the challenges to And Tango Makes Three.

    Harry Potter has also been on the top ten list of challenged books many years in a row.
     
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  14. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    It just comes across as maddeningly dumb. No idea how you put up with up it!
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Well, it does deal in nebulous concepts like "philosophy"
     
  16. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000

    As silly as these challenges are, that article says that there were 311 challenges filed last year asking to remove certain books from public libraries.

    311 challenges out of a country of 320,000,000 people doesn't actually seem like a crazy high number to me.

    Also, it doesn't seem like said public libraries actually removed those books. I used to work at a public library in the Midwest and in my experience, librarians are generally pro-freedom of art and expression, even if they don't necessarily like or agree with every book... Mostly they're just thrilled that people want to read at all :p

    But yeah I always love the assumption by some idiot parents that anything with drawings or animation is obviously meant for kids. Challenges to mature graphic novels and video games always make me shake my head.
     
  17. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003

    This is as absurd as the people who claimed Al Gore would have laid down and surrendered to OBL after 9/11.
     
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  18. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Or that he invented the internet.
     
  19. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    The last bit is silly, but he is right about them being war presidents. They both had erections for war and would've found some way to go to war with Iran at Netanyahu's behest. It's also why I fear a Ted Cruz presidency as he reminds me of Greg Stillson from The Dead Zone.
     
  20. Frank T.

    Frank T. Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    How does this work? Do I just pose a question for Ender?
     
  21. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Sometimes, you have to decide when to take a stand, and when to hold your nose and try to limit collateral damage. It's not sexy, but it's pragmatic.

    I do not think this country would be better off, either domestically or internationally, had the GOP kept the WH after GWB. McCain would likely have expanded the wars, and Romney's ideas for fixing the economy (some of which actually had potential), would never have taken off with a Democratically-controlled Congress (there was talk, for example, of restoring the Gold Standard under a Romney administration).

    You're right in the sense that the American political scene tends to oscillate around a spectrum, with not much movement in either direction, but the Presidency holds a lot of power, and who's in the White House matters. That being said, for all his flaws, I much prefer Obama to any of the alternatives.

    Same goes for Clinton. Protest vote if you want, but all you're doing is helping the GOP come 2016.

    Peace,

    V-03
     
  22. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Did you read the rest of my quote? I didn't say 'literally', I meant the end of America as the world's sole superpower.

    The only reason the US gets away with what it does is a) the world lends us insane amounts of money that in all likelihood will be never be paid back; b) the US dollar is the reserve currency. American power can be broken, and while it is not likely to happen, if we irritate enough people at the same time--say, by going to war with Iran, for example, at Israel's behest--China might decide to stop buying US Treasury's. Yes, it would hurt them too, but they're not a free country, and can fix the rate of their currency.

    It would be very hard for the US to maintain its current behavior without our international creditors. That's what I was getting at--not that the country itself would somehow cease to exist. China is well on its way to circumventing the dollar; between setting up bilateral trade agreements in yuan with as many countries and possible and buying/mining more gold than any other nation on earth, some analysts think it's only a matter of time before they gold-back their currency. That would put the dollar, and America, in a very awkward spot.

    The United States is not all powerful. There's only so much the economy can take.

    Peace,

    V-03
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Very rarely is a book actually removed, for the reasons you said, and also this:

    Office of Intellectual Freedom: Library Bill of Rights
     
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  24. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    They would be very stupid to go back on the gold standard. The whole reason why we got off of it was because the price flucuated too much.
     
  25. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    I'm not disagreeing with you, but if China does it, the yuan will skyrocket relative to other world currencies. That would hurt its export market (and implode the value of its US Treasury holdings), but such a move would likely lead to US relation in a similar fashion.

    Anyhoo, it's all speculation. My point, which is that America is no longer the dominant cat, especially in international affairs, stands.

    Lotsa angry Republicans are having trouble with that one, though ;)

    Peace,

    V-03