endor battle

Discussion in 'Scifi 3D Forum' started by darknikkos, Mar 22, 2006.

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  1. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    Hi all!

    i m working on a little project.
    its not very original..a space battle!!
    ok , so as i tried many times to make a space battle,and, as i wasnt satisfied enough because make a good one is a very long work and i m not talented to create a very impressive battle.

    For many fans (me the first) th most impressive battle is the ENDOR final battle. So.... i decided , one day, to try recreate this one with scifi models,
    not very original i know, but for me it is a big challenge.
    so here are the first 2 tests.

    no motion blur no GI and no AA for the moment, and for some reasons dont use Wmediaplayer( perhaps a bug for me but only divxplayer accepts to read them).

    http://nikospes4.site.voila.fr/test0.avi
    http://nikospes4.site.voila.fr/test2.avi

    impressions are welcome

    bye

    DNikkos
  2. bobabert Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 2
    there is nothing to see...
  3. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    oups, sorry! the links are there now!




  4. morpher-2005 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 4
    They still don't work for me
  5. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    for info, they are encoded with divx 5.0 or higher (DivXNetworks Divx v5 codecs)
    try divxplayer...they work for me.
    if they dont work for u, i ll try another codecs.
    anyway, these are just tests.
  6. darthviper107 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2003
    star 4
    It's ok, but it needs much better lighting, at the most I would say you have two lights, and that barely lights anything so there are many parts that are completely black. Also, your animation is very 'rigid' it needs more than just moving forwar or rotating. That lens flare at the beginning looks really bad too. You know, if you are using 3ds Max, it already has the capability to make some very nice lends flares within itself.
  7. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    ok, thx for this reply, but
    , like i said in my first post ther are no Motion blur and especially no GLOBAL ILLUMINATION that explains they are too dark. in the final sequence all we be done and of course u will see the difference too. and for the camera, so... in the real sequence of the movie, u will see they are the same .
    for more information these 2 tests are the begining of the Chapter 30 of Episode 6.
    i repeat myself, but i just want to realize my sequence like the movie, with some differences.

    here is a cutting of the 2 scenes

    http://nikospes4.site.voila.fr/chapter30scene1.wmv

    quality is bad i know...
  8. bobabert Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 2
    kool mais dans le premier passage je trouve que les vaisseaux sont trop statique...
  9. Zaphod Beeblebrox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    I agree with bobabert.

    Also i feel two things:

    1) The cameras are a little to static and the framing/cameramovement feels a little weird.
    2) The capital ships seem to be flying dangerously close to eachother
  10. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    hi all

    for more convenience, i ll (try to) speak english for all.

    ships are statics especially millenium falcon because i havnt done a "good" analyse of the scene and i ll try to improve them

    and they are close to each other because they seem like that in the real scene, but i will try to change my camera and ships arrangements to change that too if u really think that.

    more over, i'll change the second capital ship to add diversity in scene.

    for now i make a new test with a GI solution to see the difference.
    for the rest,u ll see results when i'll find time to apply modifs.

    oh a last thing: what do u want to say by" the framing/cameramovement feels a little weird"? can u detail me your point of view for that? thx.
    see u soon

    bye
  11. Zaphod Beeblebrox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    In the scene in ROTJ that you are "copying" the camera is never locked down, it is always moving.
    Since your camereas are locked in one position (not counting the tilt here) it it looks a little "boring". (Weird, boring. I just can't seem to find the right word here.)

    Just a slight cameramovement would improve the look a lot.

    And, oh, I just checked ROTJ and the ships there don't look as close as the ones in you clips.


    (I'm sorry if i sound all grumpy, but I have a bad cold at the moment and I have a really hard time focusing on what to type.)
  12. mishra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Like Zaphod, I too think the capital ships seem to close to eachother. Doesn't necessarily mean they are, try a different camera-angle and all could become clear. The problem is you can't do that if you're recreating the original shots. To fix this there're 2 options, keep at it and get it to work no matter how long it takes, or deviate from the original shots... I'd go for the second. More freedom, especially when beginning animating, comes in very very handy. If you want to stick with the angle you got, you might want to concider using depth of view to blur the capitols further away from the camera or something.

    You said you're gonna do a "GI solution" later. I take it you mean faking GI with a couple of spotlights or directs or something. Rendertimes can be unbelievable using GI.
    Also as long you're still testing, try testing lighting first, it's what makes models come to life. I allways setup lighting first, then move on to animating.

    Maybe it's due to the cameramovements Zaphod mentioned but the Falcon and fighters look like they're "manually" animated. Nothing wrong with that, just hard to get right. You could try using pathconstraints, very easy to change if necessary.
  13. bobabert Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 2
    agree with mishra for the GI fake it fake it!!...
  14. darthviper107 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, full GI is really not a good option for renderings in outerspace, it would take too long. Just place like 6 or so lights to where everything would be touched with lights, and then one light with shadows on as the main light source.
  15. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    hi again

    i see that u take time for me, and i 'm trying to put into practice all your advices.
    for GI i know the that takes very very long time, and i 'll dont use it.

    my fighters , in the second part of the scene have a pathconstraint an i' ve tried to give us a realistic movement. i know i can do better but it s a start.

    i m going to work hard now and all take back with new bases.

    thks for critics.

    bye
  16. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    hi again

    a tried to change some things like do a fake GI , enable Motion Blur, and (try to) give movemnt to the camera.
    i dont know if this new test is better or not.

    http://nikospes4.site.voila.fr/test0.avi

    see u soon.



  17. morpher-2005 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 4
    Well?

    We can't comment unless you show us.
  18. darthviper107 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2003
    star 4
    Looks much better, you might need some more lights for faking the GI. Now the one thing that looks out of place is the engine glows, they don't look realistic. Maybe trying a glow effect rather than a mesh representing the engine glow would be better.

    Oh, and what program are you using?
  19. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    i use 3dsmax.


    for information, i might add some lights for Fake GI, but there are 60 directionals light to simulate the GI and i think it's enough.

    for glow engines and excepted for falcon, all are volumetric lights.
    perhaps for some ships i ll use glow effect, which can render more realistic in some cases.


  20. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    hi again.

    a new test with some changes.

    i think it's better.

    http://nikospes4.site.voila.fr/chap30sc1.mov

    i ve increased the global light and add some glow.

    the Fake GI give same results as "real" GI for a render time really shorter.
    i m not satisfied by the glow results. Any suggestions?

    bye.
  21. darknikkos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    ok, here is a cutting of the 2 new sequences.

    i'll work now on the camera movmt, and especially on the scenes transition which isnt enough satisfifying for me.

    http://nikospes4.site.voila.fr/chap30sc2.mov

    any comments?

    bye.
  22. mishra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Wow, much improved since the first clip you showed!
    Fightermovement looks nice and smooth now, and the cam-shake looks good to me as well.
    Lighting also improved a lot! You say you're using 60 directionals for this? I think you can do it with less. Might improve on render-time...

    Personally I'd make some small changes in speeds and positioning of the capitals.
    - In shot01 you got Home-1 on the left and Liberty on the right. You made them the fastest capitals in the fleet, wich makes 'm look smaller then they really are. I'd use those 2 as refference, slow them down a tad and speed the smaller capitals up a little. Especially the Corvettes.
    - In shot02 behind the corvette there's a rebel transport. Behind the transport there's a Nebulon B. The transport goes slower then the Nebulon, and that makes it seem like the transport is really BEHIND the Nebulon... Am I making myself clear?

    I think the Falcons engineglow looks excellent! Might be a liiiittle brighter. The engine glow of the Nebulon looks good to me too. Why don't add a glow to the other volumetrics?

    Also noticed you're using Object motion-blur. Nice touch, I think it looks better then image-blur. If only it wasn't such a killer on rendertime...

    Ok, I know I'm a little out of place here but I have to ask wich corvette that is any way? Did you convert Sean Kennedy's LW version to Max? I'd like to know how you did that because I couldn't get it right and I want it!! Maybe we could persuade ZOO to add it to the site?
  23. -OC- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2004
    star 1
    Last one is pretty nice. I think the picture need more contrast. I agree about the fact the transport that is behind the corvette on second shot seems to be a huge ship in the background
  24. darthviper107 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2003
    star 4
    lighting looks much better. Some of the glows are too big, you can make them smaller in the settings for the glow by checking the 'distance effects size' box. Also look into DOF (Depth of field) There is an effect you can use rather than in the camera settings, but use the camera DOF to check it first. Use DOF to try to blur stuff further away.
  25. DarkSapiens Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2005
    star 4
    Amazing improvement.

    Is the violet color of the Millennium Falcon glow intended? I would make it more bluish, but it's up to you, of course.

    I think that the other fighters need more glow in their engines, and perhaps the corvettes, too. It seems that every ship has a different style of engine glows, isn't it?

    Oh, and I would do something with the camera shake, I mean, the camera moves towards the Falcon, and then returns to its position. I don't know how I would improve it exactly, but it looks a bit "unreal" to me.

    Good stuff, though.

    EDIT: Why is the animation resolution lower than the .mov one? Why is there all that black space?
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