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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Endor & environmentalism

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Bob the X-Winger, Sep 29, 2016.

  1. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    When ROTJ was released was the theme of rainforest deforestation meant to be the message of the film? The Ewoks being like South American tribes and the Rebel Alliance being environmental warriors.

    When watching the film I was captivated by the beauty of the rainforest indeed it is part of why I love this film. Not sure if this theme was intentional or the story just developed this way. The film was mostly about the Alliance up against the Evil Empire, essentially the premise of Star Wars so this environmental angle might just be a coincidence.

    In hindsight though given the times back then the whole eco movement and reducing greenhouse gases it may be the case that Endor was a suitable location to film the last epic battle and that it could easily have been an ice world, desert world, ocean world, volcanic world or whatever. Down to pure chance.
     
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In the novel there were hints that Endor's ecology was being damaged by the presence of the Death Star - energy being drawn from the planet to keep the shield up.

    And in the newcanon junior novel - there's hints that by the time the Death Star's completed, Endor will be ruined as a result - and that Palpatine knows this and "destroying beauty" provides him with an extra bit of satisfaction.
     
  3. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    No coincidence. The theme was intended. GL was also partly inspired by the National Liberation Front's victory over their technologically more advanced enemies during the Vietnam War.
    It's a classic "Nature vs Machine" motif that's carried throughout the Saga to varying degrees and that peaks in ROTJ.
     
  4. DarthZ07

    DarthZ07 Jedi Grand Master star 2

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    May 11, 2005
    It was just close to Skywalker Ranch. GL was just getting lazy.
     
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  5. Lazy_Ewok

    Lazy_Ewok Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 21, 2016
    I agree about the battle of Endor as being a metaphor for environmentalism. You can clearly see how the Empire in their walkers shooting down trees and so on. The message is not only in what happens but also how it is being filmed. Maybe I am mistaken but I think that there is a close-up picture where you see walkers shooting at a tree that gets destroyed.
     
  6. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    The Empire hates trees.
     
  7. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    I too always felt there was an underlying environmentalism theme here that never was fleshed out for some reason.
     
  8. StartCenterEnd

    StartCenterEnd Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    May 2, 2006
    The novelization goes into it more.The trio each give these big speeches to the Ewok tribes about how important it is to defend nature.
     
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  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Han's speech was a little inarticulate, and Leia's speech was one sentence. The longest speech wasn't from one of The Big Three but from Wicket.
     
  10. StartCenterEnd

    StartCenterEnd Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    May 2, 2006
    Ah ok, I was misremembering then but essentially the theme of environmentalism is stronger in the novelization.
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Indeed. The newcanon's novelization also has that theme.
     
  12. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    You guys really make me want to read the novelization. They must be cool to read.
     
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  13. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    I'm not against nature. But I'd rather a person haves a job cutting down trees or damming rivers then be employed.

    Hate to say it but pollution = jobs.
     
  14. Lazy_Ewok

    Lazy_Ewok Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 21, 2016
    Darth Basin: Well that is a point of view but it is simply a matter of what to prioritize.
     
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  15. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2016
    It is thematic, and is part of a larger theme. I will explain in depth because I think it gets to the heart of the franchise.

    Look at the Empire. Monochromatic, men only, humans only, completely dominated by machinery. Faceless troopers, all wearing the same uniform, inhabiting artificial roaming 'planets' made of machinery, which appear intimidating but are really just hollow inside, with no connection to a sun, no connection to a system. Those are the 'Death Stars.' On top of that, the Empire just plops one of their standard complexes down onto Endor, and it jars very much with the landscape.

    Now look at the Rebels and the Ewoks. The Rebels' base on Yavin IV is part of an old ancient temple. On Hoth, they build underneath the snow. On Endor, they work with the Ewoks, who build their villages around trees, as part of the natural environment. The theme here is that the Rebels work with nature -- they cooperate with it, they flow back and forth with it [symbolism of Luke on Dagobah as well]. The Rebels are diverse. They include different species, different races. There are women and not only are they there, they are in positions of power and authority. The Empire in the OT has no women. The Rebels do not shield their individuality and personal faces with masks -- each person is clearly unique with their own personhood, and though they do wear uniforms, they are made of more natural material than plastic, and they can vary from one person to another in slight ways. Unlike the Empire, which shields faces identically for everyone and sticks to artificial black or white plastic uniforms even on Endor, a world of green. The contrast there is striking, as the Rebels and Ewoks wear clothing that blends in with the natural environment. Even Luke, who wears all black, wears soft cloth instead of artificial plastic, and wears a tunic over it upon his arrival on Endor to fit in with the natural landscape.

    The Empire doesn't fit in. They show no awareness or connection to their natural environment. They destroy nature-loving worlds like Alderaan with no sense of loss. They are ready to destroy the forest moon of Yavin IV with no apparent problems of conscience. Originally in ROTJ, they are also ready to destroy Endor, and there was time alluding to their all-artificial capital on Coruscant -- and the artificial Imperial Palace, rooted in rocks and lava, which burns and destroys all life.

    In a sense, the Empire is anti-life, and it's not subtle but it's effectively portrayed. They curtail freedom and scoff at diversity and color. They do not blend in with the natural environment or show any regard or concern for it [partly why they fail on Endor]. They construct vast machines whose sole purpose is death and destruction. They don't believe in or acknowledge the Force, which in Star Wars is essentially just the awareness that all living things are connected and inter-depend [the Living Force]. They are callous to emotional, spiritual, environmental concerns. And on top of it all, the Empire is personified by the Emperor, who does not seem to believe in the concept of friends nor does he seem to acknowledge altruism or cooperation. He only sees selfishness, which is what he is and what he tries to exploit in others.

    And notice the two times he fails -- Luke's cooperation with Vader and Padme cooperating with the Gungans and Jedi. He doesn't seem to anticipate harmony or working together, and that's because he sees life as a chess game, which is sort of inhuman. And this man stands for what the Empire is. He is its leader and father.

    In contrast, one could easily see Leia and Padme as the mothers of the Rebellion. One note about the PT -- they are thematically rich and consistent with the OT in this regard so it's related -- you can see this theme extended to them as well. The roots of the Rebel Alliance go back to Naboo, to Alderaan, through Padme, Bail Organa, and even a young Mon Mothma. I think it is of importance as well that the roots of the Rebels comes from the combined efforts of men and women. The people of Naboo embrace life and nature, their cities are well-integrated with the landscape, even with the Gungans. The lesson from that first film is of unity. Coruscant on the other hand, a completely artificial world, emphasizes sterility and symbolizes corruption and stagnation. And, in the arc of the PT, we see the forces of nature eventually lose out and be betrayed by those of artificiality -- identical clones, created from one man, with no mother. And created, no less, on a world of constant ravaging storms -- almost as if 'mother nature' and environment of Kamino is in rebellion against such an unnatural creation as a clone army with no female input.

    Even the ships of the OT -- the Rebel ships have names like "Home One" and 'medical frigate' -- home and healing. They are personified in almost bubbly-looking shapes, with curves to them. The Empire on the other hand has no curves. Every home ship for them is simply jagged and rough and pointing, like a dagger.

    The reason I say all this is that it is connected deeply with that of the treatment of the environment. To be able to connect to the environment, a person must have a softness inside, an openness, an embrace of life. The Empire has none of that. They are hard and oppose life. They oppose everything natural. They represent death, decay. Represented perfectly in ROTJ -- a decaying old man in power, and a monster-machine who, when unmasked, is a ghostly old man. The Rebels, the Naboo in the PT -- they represent life and in the most deep sense are the heroes of the Star Wars saga. And their embrace of the environment is connected very deeply to how they treat everything -- an embrace of life, a balance between natural and artificial, man and animal, male and female. Like all great tales of the ancient Greeks and Chinese, it all comes down to one theme -- that of balance. And the Rebels represent that perfectly.
     
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  16. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    xezene impressive, that was really thought provoking and I agree with the points your raised. Very true about the Rebels and the environment.
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Oops I meant unemployment.

    I respect your point of view though.
     
  18. MandoA101

    MandoA101 Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 2, 2016
    I agree. A theme through out the films are the empire's tendency to defy nature and build these huge structures, and the rebels use nature to their advantage (echo base, camouflage in ROTJ, etc.). Also, the empire doesn't care or is ignorant of the nature around them and doesn't invest in camouflaged trooper armor.
     
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  19. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    They'd probably like to turn the whole universe into a black, white and gray machine.
     
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  20. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 27, 2016
    From the novelization of Return of the Jedi, where Luke, Han & Leia are all imploring the Ewoks to help them in their struggle against the Empire:

    The debate wound down, leaving finally another quiet moment in the hut. Leia's respirations quieted, too, in resonance; and with an air of confident serenity, she made her appeal to the council.
    "Do it because of the trees," she said.
    That's all she said. Everyone expected more, but there was no more; only this short, oblique outburst.
    Wicket had been observing these proceedings with increasing concern, from the sidelines. On several occasions it was apparent he was restraining himself with great difficulty from entering the council's discourse—but now he jumped to his feet, paced the width of the hut several times, finally faced the Elders, and began his own impassioned speech.
    "Eep eep, meep eek squee…"
    Threepio translated for his friends: "Honorable Elders, we have this night received a perilous, wondrous gift. The gift of freedom. This golden god…"—here Threepio paused in his translation just long enough to savor the moment; then went on—"…This golden god, whose return to us has been prophesied since the First Tree, tells us now he will not be our Master, tells us we are free to choose as we will—that we must choose; as all living things must choose their own destiny. He has come, Honorable Elders, and he will go; no longer may we be slaves to his diving guidance. We are free.
    "Yet how must we comport ourselves? Is an Ewok's love of the wood any less because he can leave it? No—his love is more, because he can leave it, yet he stays. So is it with the voice of the Golden One: we can close our eyes; yet we listen.
    "His friends tell us of a Force, a great living spirit, of which we are all part, even as the leaves are things separate yet part of the tree. We know this spirit, Honorable Elders, though we call it not the Force. The friends of the Golden One tell us this Force is in great jeopardy, here and everywhere. When the fire reaches the forest, who is safe? Not even the Great Tree of which all things are part; nor its leaves, nor its roots, not its birds. All are in peril, forever and ever.
    "It is a brave thing to confront such a fire. Honorable Elders. Many will die, that the forest lives on.
    "But the Ewoks are brave."
    The little bear-creature fixed his gaze on the others in the hut. Not a word was spoken; nonetheless, the communication was intense. After a minute like this, he concluded his statement.
    "Honorable Elders, we must aid this noble party not less for the trees, but more for the sake of the leaves on the trees. These Rebels are like the Ewoks, who are like the leaves. Battered by the wind, eaten without thought by the tumult of locusts that inhabit the world—yet do we throw ourselves on smoldering fires, that another may know the warmth of light; yet do we make a soft bed of ourselves, that another may know rest; yet do we swirl in the wind that assails us, to send the fear of chaos into the hearts of our enemies; yet do we change color, even as the season calls upon us to change. So must we help our Leafbrothers, these Rebels—for so has come a season of change upon us."
     
  21. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 20, 2007
    Unlike Avatar which bashes you over the head with it!
     
  22. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    There is this one ROJ storyboard (I couldn't find on the internet, yet), revealing that all the trees surrounding the security shield generator had been cut down.
    Just this one image as a visual in the final film would have said it all, IMHO.
     
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  23. xezene

    xezene Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2016
    Now that I think about it, the Ewoks in a literal sense are the natives on the land. I'm from America, and here we have Native American tribes. In many films, a 'cultured' hero goes into the native land and leads the natives to victory. However, I like how ROTJ flips this on its head. Apparently it's done quite subtly, because I haven't heard anyone bring it up till now. Effectively, on Endor, the victory against the Empire completely hinges on the help of the natives. And they do help. Not only do they help, they lead the Rebels to victory. Maybe some people find this impausible, but I don't. The use of logs in the film clearly demonstrates how the Ewoks actually defeated the Empire by simply using the natural material of the land against Imperial Machinery. And even though the Ewoks use rocks and arrows, rocks and arrows alone don't just take down stormtroopers, Ewoks jump all over them and swarm them. They are fast and small, and there are lots of them. They use their strengths to their greatest benefit. Like cats, their cuddliness can be deceiving -- they are fierce warriors and carnivores that eat their prey. Most importantly, they have home-field advantage, and all their weapons blend into the environment, so the Empire never detects them until it's too late.

    Anyway, back to my point, the natives work together with the Rebels to win and vice versa, and that's awesome. I like that it's basically on the shoulders of deceptively-simple natives that the Rebels win. It's not just the Rebels "saving" the Ewoks. More like the other way around. But it's not competitive, it's cooperative. Speaks volumes by itself. The fact that people dismiss or do not recognize this powerful thematic point, of nature and cooperation triumphing over mechanical selfishness, the fact that they disbelieve that the Ewoks are capable of what they did, even despite the fact that the means are clearly demonstrated on film, just goes to show that I suppose much of our culture is more Imperial than Rebel.
     
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  24. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    I loved the setting. Beautiful location. I think the deleted scene of Sidious ordering Jerjerrod to destroy the moon should have been included. I recall that Lucas on the intro to the 1994 ROTJ videocassette described Luke and the Rebels as having brown and earth-tone colors, while the Death Star was black and white. In one of this commentaries for ROTJ, he described Sidious and the Empire as controlling a "mechanical world." Seems like he may have been attempting to describe the perils of technology and domination over the environment.
     
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  25. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    I quite agree, this is why I feel the Empire would most likely continue to use cloning as a supply for troops as it fits with their machine, anti-life MO. Artificial men along with their artificial moons and environments and a even further disconnect from nature and the natural order by manufacturing life like machines.

    Even machines like R2D2 thought Endor was pretty and helped to preserve it from the Empire and they didn't care about destroying it. Basically a droid was more human than the human Imps.
     
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