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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph Engage! The Star Trek: TNG General Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Constant_shadow, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    When I said "old enterprise" I meant it terms of the new movie...I knew about TOS.
     
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/15/Transporter_matter_beam.jpg]
    TNG 602: Realm of Fear
    -Premise: Lieutenant Barclay faces his fear of transporting, but now he thinks that he's being attacked by a creature inside the transporter beam.

    -T2Q Comments: Barclay! Hurrah! Oh, I think I remember this episode. Goodbye awesome Season 5 titles...

    First 1st-person POV of being transported. They're starting to play up the Cardassians again, for the soon-to-arrive DS9.

    Dematerialized mouth monsters- yeah thats creepy, at least thats the lasting impression I still have of it from childhood- not sure if they'd have the same effect now without it ingrained in me.

    Watching Marina try to speed-walk to keep up with Reg's stride is quite funny! [face_laugh]

    One of the weirder-bit-neat twists in the show, though the technobabble explaination to justify it is layed on a bit heavy. I like that this one at least explored transporter phobias- though it doesn't go the full monty by diving into the "do you have the same consciousness coming out, or are you killed and perfectly cloned/recreated and thus can never actually tell the difference?" but it's a good start. Barclay is always Definitely Essential.



    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/4e/Deanna_Troi_rapidly_aged.jpg]
    TNG 603: Man of the People
    -Premise: As an ambassador mediates peace talks to end a fierce civil war, Deanna Troi begins to act erratically.

    -T2Q Comments: Aliens with hair dye dripping down their foreheads and crazy mothers that make it hard for them to get date- perhaps the stereotypical Trek nerd is meant to sympathize? ;)

    Ensign Janeway? Amok Troi? Yowza dress in headlights! Old age makeup to undo by episode's end.

    Picard wonders how is it possible that the old lady corpse only has 30 year old organs and bones- yet they've seen Deanna is aging- you'd think it would be obvious, no?

    Hahaha- when they tell Picard and Worf to leave as he is needed, my first thought was "they have a transporter- beam up away from the guards with guns, then beam the negotiator up afterwards- cut back from commercial break and it's Picard's first thought as well- alas, technobabble gets in the way.

    The paiful shock expression of the negotiator is unintentionally hilarious. And if Deanna's aging is the result of chemical being released in her body as a reaction to the neural activity (like an accelerated version of stress taking a toll on your body)- how does the cessation of that activity instantly undo all that physical damage? His death is kinda dark enough of a moment, though.

    Generally not much wrong with this episode, and not bad for a Troi episode either- it's somewhat very by the books though- part of me kinda wishes they'd be able to find drama in these negotiations and such within the world of Trek, rather than have them be either useless background events or turned awry by the strange alien/alien ability of the week- not just in this episode, but the series in general. Anyways, the episode is Average.



    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/12/Dyson_sphere_exterior.jpg] [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/7/71/USS_Jenolan_crash-landed.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/42/Scott2369.jpg]
    TNG 604: Relics
    -Premise: The Enterprise discovers a ship that crashed on a Dyson Sphere more than 75 years ago with a single survivor suspended in the transporter buffer: Captain Montgomery Scott.

    -T2Q Comments: Always liked ideas like a Dyson's Sphere, O'Neil station, etc. Hello, Scotty- nice touch with the TOS transporter sound and visual effects- though Scotty's comments about Kirk and the Enterprise are somewhat contradictory given the events of Generations' prologue- guess he was disoriented or lost those memories while in storage ;)

    Not sure I like how they're making Scotty "the old guy who won't shut up about the old days", though given his situation, I can see it being a type of copi
     
  3. Jedi_Master_Conor

    Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    Funny story about Relics is last night I was wondering about all the TOS cast cameos in the TNG episodes and I looked them up on Youtube and was really moved by the Kelley and Doohan cameos.
     
  4. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Yeah...the Bones cameo was super weird.
     
  5. Jedi_Master_Conor

    Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    I looked at that one and for me, he was hardly recognizable at first.
     
  6. FlareStorm

    FlareStorm Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2000
    Realm of Fear showed us that while transporting your are aware and can perceive. So in Relics, Scotty was awake during that time in the transporter buffer!
     
  7. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    This is true...but there isn't a continuity of "time" while in transport...which is why Scotty believed not much time had passed while he was in the buffer. If it were a perfect awareness, Scotty would've gone mad.
     
  8. FlareStorm

    FlareStorm Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2000
    Just something I thought of when I saw the descriptions back to back
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think there's a breaking point in consciousness that you don't percieve during transport- everything that Barclay does is said to be happening just prior to the matter losing cohesion (or, essentailly, before it's mostly/all energy) and at that point you are not aware since you are not whole enough to be so. Then once the energy begins to be reconsituted into matterm you hit a new breaking point where your awareness is (seemingly seamlessly) reinstituted as you regain cohesion.

    Scotty's pattern spent those decades in the buffer between those two points of cohesion and consciousness.

    Otherwise he'd have either gone mad or had quite a set of memoirs to write down when he got out ;)
     
  10. FlareStorm

    FlareStorm Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2000
    or they were two separate episode, most Trek lacked canonical cohesion IMO

    The Dyson Sphere I wished they'd explored. Such a thing would take the dismantlement of solar systems to build. Exploring such tech and the culture that made it should have been a #1 priority.

    Did any outside sources say who built it? I have a hard time imagining even the god-races doing it
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, the lack of follow-up on the Dyson's Sphere is most dissapointing- even if the whole sphere's general tech-level didn't exceed the Federation's (and merely left how it was actually built to be the mystery advanced technology of the scenario), at the very least they had a new form of tractor beam/weapon that could be used or adapted ("incompatible energies" or whatever it is)- sort of like a ship-level weapon "set for stun".

    Memory-Alpha doesn't mention any Trek books or other material expanding on that particular Dyson's Sphere or the race that created it, though there are a couple other book-uses of different Dyson's Spheres their origin is mostly left unexplored/a mystery, except for a mobile one made by a god-like entity. Still doesn't help elaborate on this particular one, though.

    It's hard to fathom any race we've seen building a DS, except for the Q (who can do pretty much anything it seems) and, maybe, the Organians from TOS (though they seem to control energy more than matter- and probably wouldn't have need or desire to build one, either).

    I do like the idea suggested elsewhere that in the Trek universe, an advanced civilization might have used the harnessed energy from the star to fuel a replicator-like technology that would create the materials used for the sphere's construction.
     
  12. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    I always hoped the Dyson Sphere would be Borg...but oh well.

    It does seem strange that it didn't get more play...and more strange that Scotty's ship was so "lost" for so long when it's obvious the Dyson sphere hasn't gone anywhere in that time (galactic spin aside).

    Reality is either the Dyson Sphere was an automated relic of a dead race...or somebody way too strong for the crew of the Enterprise to ever semi-seriously match against.

    What really astonishes me is that there isn't more jaw dropped amazement at the achievement of the Dyson sphere...which leads me to believe finding them is more common place then one would expect.

    In which case, one has to laugh at the puny existence of so much melodrama with the Federation and it's rivals/allies...they really do lead an adolescent life in a universe far more advanced then they care to imagine most days.

    Q should lock humans on earth for their arrogance...and for their safety for that matter.

    Perhaps that's one overarching flaw of trek..."growth" outside the embracing of "super-humanity" is lacking...they don't press into things like Dyson's Sphere's or non-corporeal existence...it's humanize the quadrant and play with time travel...that's it. [face_sick]
     
  13. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think the lack of amazement is more a result of the story's focus on Scotty- he's already past the amazement and still has freshly lost friends. While we're following Scotty moping about, had we cut to Picard and co more often prior to the danger, we'd probably see them commenting on the scale and wonder.
     
  14. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    but there in lies my point...Star Trek...the assumed paragon of science fiction franchises...wraps itself up far too often in human interest stories, when the much bigger adventure is right outside the window.

    I've browsed past a couple of those "star trek: remembered" specials they've been showing in anticipation of the new film...and I always seem to drop in right when they speak about "Star Trek could bring stories about the real world to the audience that no one could" and then they'd go on about the Cold War/Klingon analogy, etc...

    Yeah...that's great in 1967...today everybody plays those games, trying to bring the "cut from the headlines" story as the world changes with each news cycle,,,and moreover, as the world has changed, Star Trek didn't.

    Now I haven't seen the new film...but what I hope it's doing, whether "reboot" or no...is giving Star Trek a real identity of it's own...one that won't be tainted or forgotten by real world politics...one that embraces a fantastic galaxy that's been built up over nearly 50 years...if they could just get their heads out of the "trivial" nature Star Trek likes to embrace in the face of the "extraordinary".
     
  15. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Actually, there is a pretty decent sequel novel, Star Trek: The Next Generation: Dyson Sphere, where the Enterprise goes to the Dyson Sphere to conduct a proper scientific survey.
     
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Really? Hmm, didn't see any info on that one at Memory Beta or Alpha.

    [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/2/27/Riker_abducted.jpg]
    TNG 605: Schisms
    -Premise: Enterprise crew members report that they go to sleep but wake up exhausted; a mysterious subspace pocket forms inside a cargo bay.

    -T2Q Comments: You know I've always kinda wondered how Starfleet looks upon their crew performing such radical modifications to the ship in the field ("if we feed this one thing into a different piece of technolgoy, we might get something better!"). You'd think that there'd be an R&D period before risking a ship with a thousand people aboard out in the middle of nowhere. Or does Starfleet intentionally make their ships so modular/customizable? I'd have to think that after a few months of such things like this, one starship in a class would be completely different from another.

    I was hoping that watching an episode would help me wake up- Riker not being able to stay awake here is not helping, ha.

    Introduction of Data's "Ode to Spot". See? an explosion because of weird tinkering!

    Medical team to cargo bay 4...sooo we're just gonna stroll over there, huh? I mean, you just had an explosion and people might be hurt badly..yet Worf, Crusher and co. are actually going slower than a walking pace.

    Usually when they tell you to drink something before you go to bed, they mean "more than one sip". The barber again? not a character i'd expect to be recurring- and, of course, I gotta wonder how a member of a bald-species becomes a barber?

    I see mobile metal staircases haven't changed much in the centuries since I worked at Staples. Making that table become metal from wood completely changes most of it's characteristics- a lot of the details in the holo-recreation seem to be included arbitrarily.

    Having your arm amputated and reattached without you knowing is kinda disturbing. And once again a magic energy ball that can pass through the hull enters/leaves the ship. I'm gonna take a guess that we never hear of this newly-established species threat/probe again. Seriously, they could make an entire "Star Trek: Forgotten Threats" series based on all the unfollowd up enemies they've set up and never mentioned again.

    Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential



    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/6d/Amanda_rogers.jpg]
    TNG 606: True Q
    -Premise: Q once again graces the Enterprise with a visit, claiming that a young intern aboard is really a Q.

    -T2Q Comments: So we either have Neo or what I'm assuming, going by the episode title, a member of the Q continuum in child form- knowingly or otherwisel Gotta wonder if it's a random core breach or if she caused it by accident ala the spontaneous puppy generation (ok, turns out it was Q himself).

    Q's wink at Crusher- they don't interact much, would kinda like to see more of that (thankfully in this episode we get some more). "You can't just take her away from everything she's ever known." "hmph- I can assure you I can." ha.

    Data doesn't seem at all surprised for Picard to speaking about the Q or Amanda's parents as being Q, or the fact that Picard just walked out of a room her never entered.

    Not sure why Picard or Crusher don't just come out and say "Unfortunately, he's an *******, but Q is the only one who can help you.", not like it'd harm her by supporting her opinion of him instead of seeming like they're trying to shove this abusive guy upon her.

    I'm kind of amused by the I Dream of Jeanie-esque hand motions the girl is taking to work her magic (compared to Q's usual snaps). The scale of them standing on the ship doesn't look quite right to me.

    I'm surprised they haven't played up Riker's having given up Q powers, given the girl's somewhat similar decision and her infatuation with him.

    "The jury's still out on that" kinda foreshadows All Good Things...

    "Jean-Luc, sometimes i think the only reason I come here is to listen to these wonderful speeches of yours."

    I like the girl's reaction to her actions. Excell
     
  17. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    It was kind of a fun idea for an episode and even though they had to resort to a transporter malfunction to make it work, at least it was one that we hadn't seen before. Picard and Riker pretending to be father and son, along with Picard throwing a temper tantrum was hilariously cringe-worthy, however.
     
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    No I agree- they played that for laughs too much.
     
  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/90/Worf_and_Alexander_in_Deadwood.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/18/Durango%2C_Deadwood.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9d/Frank_Hollander.jpg]
    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/d/d2/Picard_starts_his_Mozart_recording.jpg] [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/14/Sheriff_Worf.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/5a/USS_Enterprise-D_flies_off_into_the_sunset.jpg]
    TNG 608: A Fistful of Datas
    -Premise: After a computer malfunction, Worf, Alexander Rozhenko, and Deanna Troi are trapped in an Old Western holodeck program where all the characters look like and have the same abilities as Data.

    -T2Q Comments: Nice touch with Picard and his flute- amusing gag with him constantly being interrupted.

    Oh, no, a western backlot...Deadwood, ha. "Mr Barclay helped a little" [face_laugh].

    Troi, oh my; Data, oh no.

    Throwback to Data's poetry, ha. I like the touch of "the ancient west" description. Lovely final shot- guess they had something extra in the budget? Oh wait, I get it- it's riding off into the sunset!

    As much as I usually find these types of episodes too cheesy, I still enjoyed this one (maybe because on TOS it felt like the actors were just trying to play cowboy, whereas here the characters are supposed to be p[laying cowboy), and I like that it continues the Worf/Troi pairing a bit. Good Episode, but not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: directed by Patrick Stewart, who got sunburn while shooting out of his excitement for filming it. Marina initially tried to blow rings of the smoke, but Dorn cut her off, saying "Stop it! Don't be funnier than me, this is my show."



    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/4b/Exocomp_with_tool.jpg]
    TNG 609: The Quality of Life
    -Premise: Data discovers robots that he believes qualify as lifeforms.

    -T2Q Comments: Amusingly making Geordi's beard growth a running plotline of all things. A learning computer goes bad, how original- Johnny Five is alive!

    Referencing Measure of a Man here, and I can see why this is the flipside of Data's predicament. The doctor's arc and function as a character is pretty by the book, still, a good episode, if predictable. Borderline Average.



    Up next: TNG 610 & 611: Chain of Command, Parts I & II.
     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/8/88/Edward_Jellico.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/13/Reklar.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/60/Madred.jpg]
    TNG 610: Chain of Command, Part 1
    -Premise: Picard, Worf, and Dr. Crusher are reassigned from the Enterprise to a secret mission. Meanwhile, the Enterprise is under the command of Captain Jellico, who immediately starts making changes, much to the dismay of the crew.

    -T2Q Comments: Ah, one of the two two-parters I know the least about, should be fun. Cardassiana used here, on the cusp of DS9's debut, as well as Bajorians.

    And, having repeatedly failed to gain control of the Stargate program, Senator Kinsey has settled for command of the Enterprise... [face_laugh] "And get that fish out of the ready room" [face_laugh]

    For some reason I'm particularly liking the practical effect of the lights on the tricorder- the glow is slightly hazy and has an interesting visual quality to it. This Gul Lemec has a crazy wide grin, very unsettling.

    David Warner? Sweet- nice to see he's played a full spectrum of Trek species. Pretty awesome first parter. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: the Ferengi in this episode was originally meant to be Quark as a DS9 crossover, but the delay in DS9's debut meant having to change it since no one would know who he was. This is also the first time Troi has worn a standard Starfleet uniform since Encounter at Farpoint, and would continue t do while on duty for the rest of the series.



    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/4f/Madred%2C_four_lights.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/48/Data_%28command%29.jpg] [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/7/7a/Lemec_retrieves_Picard.jpg]
    TNG 611: Chain of Command, Part 2
    -Premise: Captain Picard's secret mission fails, leading to him being captured by Cardassians. As he is tortured by his captors, Captain Jellico and the Enterprise attempt to prevent war with the Cardassian Union.

    -T2Q Comments: Warner is awesome. It's cool, yet weird, to see Data wearing command red. Warner and Stewarts scenes are great, though I have to wonder how starvation could play such a big role in the war with replicator technology readily available-you'd think relief efforts centered around those could do wonders to ease hostilities or the need for military control and related warfare.

    So I'm wondering how the Cardassians took the ship they're negotiating with just taking off like that. Not well, i would assume. Throwback mention to Geordi as a pilot.

    Excellent end, though they seem a little quick to give command back to the mindfracked Picard, and I don't feel we get full closure on "Kinsey" (I didn't want to see him disgraced or anything, or outright wrong, as that'd fit into the cliche of Starfleet higher-ups being nuts or idiots that has gone on since TOS, but I was hoping to see the character progress a little more). Definitely Essential



    Up next: DS9 101 & 102: Emissary
     
  21. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    "There are...FOUR LIGHTS!"

    Some of the best stuff of the whole show...and I know this because I am literally uncomfortable watching it...between the torture and the mind games...and it is done is such an intelligent, reasoned manner, as any back and forth between men like Warner and Stewart would be.

    Being a Picard/Crusher fan...when Picard stays in response to the bluff about getting to her...wow...it really was a layer of Picards inner soul being savaged in this episode.

    Yeah, Kinsey is a dink...but the reality that there is more then one way to skin a cat, or run a ship in this case, is a good lesson for Star Trek.

    Troi in normal uniform is a smart move, especially as the show did move a bit away from the flamboyance and extravagance that having a evening gown counselor on board would suggest.

    I remember through the whole run of DS9, hoping Warner's character would reappear...perhaps a mentor of Gul Dukat...it would've been great!
     
  22. FlareStorm

    FlareStorm Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2000
    Up next: DS9 101 & 102: Emissary

    Why not finish TNG?
     
  23. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I decided to go chronologically, going by the timelines on Memory-Alpha, so the next 3 or 4 episodes will be DS9 episodes, then I'll be popping back over to TNG and, mostly, alternating from there.

    It also somewhat mirrors the original viewing experience of having both shows on the air at once- which is not something you get to experience often in a non-law/crime/sitcom TV franchise (only Stargate, Buffy and Doctor Who come to mind).

    Though for this forum I'll be breaking up the episode reviews so they'll go into the corresponding series thread, so those "next up" tags will reflect that after this point.


    Yeah, I'm also a Picard/Crusher fan and I agree, that was hard hit scene. I did like, as you say, that this showed there are more ways to run a ship- "Kinsey" wasn't wrong, in the longrun.

    And yeah, I'm really wishing Warner would have returned too. Heck, this whole 2-parter could have used a sequel with Kinsey and Warner (not necessarily at the same time, but both were characters worthy of follow-up).

    This 2-parter could have easily passed for a theatrical film- only have to add a little more action and a space battle at the end and it'd be suitably epic enough.
     
  24. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    "You! Cannot! Hurt! Meeeeeeee!!!!"

    One of the best episodes. Dead-on about Jellico's command style, "Get it done" vs "make it so." OTOH Troi and her "magic empathy sense" hinted that Jellico didn't have his act all together. Similarly, Riker's observation that Jellico didn't inspire extra effort in his subordinates was not wrong.
     
  25. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    One of the more subtle but great contrasts worked into the episode.