Amph Engage! The Star Trek: TNG General Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Constant_shadow, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    What deck was she on?

    I've read discussions on Troi's wardrobe before...there are episodes early on in the series where her hair or dress would change, mid episode, for no apparent reason...sometimes changing back.

    The theory went...she had a wardrobe for different decks...and she changed in the turbolift (that's good counseling!)
  2. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
  3. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
  5. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/43/Remmler_array.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/e0/Baryon_sweep.jpg]
    TNG 618: Starship Mine
    -Premise: On an evacuated USS Enterprise-D, Picard plays a deadly game of cat-and-mouse with terrorists who want to steal toxic waste from the warp core as a lethal beam sweeps the ship.

    -T2Q Comments: I think this sets a record for the number of times the word "captain" has been spoken within a single minute. So this sweep/cleaning hasn't been done in the 5 years they've been active, and have apparently accumulated more of this radiation than typical ships would in that period of time...so when they were pulled in for major repairs over Earth after the Borg attack, why didn't they cleanse it of radiation then?

    Not-Tuvok appears here. Combined with Not-Paris and we're a good skip towards Voyager already.

    The Data/Hutch pair off is hilarious. The one chick here is played by the same actress who played Dodger on B5's GROPOS & Day of the Dead episodes- and Patricia Tallman appears again. It's a B5 Twofer episode (underlined by B5 having debuted a month prior to this episode's original airing).

    So I'm guessing Hutch is dead? They haven't really touched upon him, only Geordi. This one moment here I think might illustrate a distinction between Kirk and Picard, as far as I perceive it- when the one guy chasing Picard through the crawl tunnels is killed by the energy field, Picard stops a moment in regret over the loss of life, while I can't help but think Kirk would have smirked a little in amusement at tricking the bad guy.

    When Picard uses the door opening device the one time, while he attaches it and presses it to the door, the door noticably bends inwards as if made of wood or plastic (like it probably is on the set). It didn't cross my mind till we see the shot of the barrier crossing over it it- but if they're looking for a way off the ship, and the shuttlebay is unaccessible, why not just take the Captain's Yacht?

    Not-Lyta is sorta shrugged off after the explosion. So Ten Forward is now the most radioactive place on the ship, ha.

    Anyways, great episode, and one I've been looking forward to seeing again for awhile. It's Die Hard on a Starship, what's not to love? The whole baryon sweep thing is a great plot device too (even if not terribly subtle in name ;) ).

    Technically this one isn't "Definitely" Essential, as it doesn't connect to any other plotlines or recurring characters, but, I see no reason why anyone should miss this episode. So I'll pull rank and go "Definitely Essential".


    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/c/ce/Picard_and_Daren_embrace.jpg]
    TNG 619: Lessons
    -Premise: Picard falls in love with one of his subordinates, but he can't deal with having to order her into dangerous situations.

    -T2Q Comments: Communications, library and replicator systems offline due to Stellar Cartography- "What could they possibly be doing down there?" My guess? Talking about their bookclub via a game of telephone while consuming a feast. I'm absolutely positive I'm right about this one. Damn. Missed it by that much.

    The pause at the response to "Have you been playing long?" in regards the flute is a nice touch. On the upshot, at least this chick is closer in age to Picard than his usual one-shot romantic interests, and she bares more than a passing resemblance to Beverely.

    I'm glad they didn't take the cliched way out and kill her off inside a single episode. This would have been a more effective episode had she been established as a crew member in prior episodes instead of coming across as the guest star love interest she is.

    Oddly enough, this episode almost feels like it could have been an episode of BSG, without the doom and gloom, replaced with more optimism. Even though the flute is a followup to The Inner Light, I'll say this is a Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential- though I could see why one would call it Potentially Essential.




    Up next:
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/f3/Galen_avec_picard.jpg]
    TNG 620: The Chase
    -Premise: Picard tries to finish his old archaeology teacher's monumental last mission: solving a puzzle that leads many factions to the secret of life in this galaxy.

    -T2Q Comments: Alas, no Charlie Sheen, Claudia Christian, Henry Rollins, or even Flea, in this one.

    I think I remember this artifact. Yridian destroyer appears here- same race that was played by Papa Bauer in the Birthright DS9 crossover, and will continue to be a recurring species.

    This DNA puzzle-program is a very neat idea- though I'm sure the answer to be revealed won't be related, this seems like it would have been an excellent opportunity to reconnect to The Preservers aspect of things.

    Cardassians and Klingons- the plot thickens! From spoilery fragments I've accidentally come upon, I can't help but think the Klingons destroying a planet and the Cardassian's reaction to it as being typical of Klingons isn't somehow an unintentional hint of things to come.

    "I will send you my mother's recipe." [face_laugh]

    [face_laugh] Geez- and then the Romulans show up- how long till Ferengi pop in?

    Hmm, they never really ID the "Ancient" by any name or term so maybe they were The Preservers.

    Last conversation with the Romulan does a good job of reunderlining the cold war tensions and hopes.

    Very Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: Apparently, early drafts of this script DID have the Ferengi in it, as well as a Vulcan, and was toned to be more comedic in a "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" style. Moore did consider, but purposefully did not specify, that the ancient species was The Preservers- commenting that they "could" be and still be an internally consistent notion. A deleted scene had Crusher testing Mr Mott as one of the non-Federation world members aboard. First mention of another Deep Space station- DS4. First appearance of an adult female Cardassian, as well as the first episode to have Humans, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians in a single episode. The artifact Picard is given here appears throughout the remainder of the series and is among the wreckage aboard the D in Generations.




    Up next: TNG 621: Frame of Mind & TNG 622: Suspicons.
  7. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    "Starship Mine" and "The Chase" are, in my opinion, some of the crown jewels of the show.

    Starship Mine might be Stewart's best individual effort of the series...and with Data'a antics in the secondary scenes, the episode is pure gold.

    "The Chase" is a fun episode focused heavily on Picard's character and past (and consequently, how "destined" Picard was toward discovery, whether aboard Enterprise or not...which is funny considering the plot of "Tapestry" not long ago.)

    Too bad they stick a real stinker of an episode in between with "Lessons"...I find the episode to be a stretch...out of character for Picard...unnecessarily dramatic at the end to give the episode any emotional grip at all, and then ends with a complete "yep, this means nothing to the ongoing show".

    And as a Picard/Crusher fan, I must object to Crusher's role (or non-role) in this episode. When they romance her with a ghost, Picard shows up to get her! She should've snapped that pale upstart like a twig over breakfast!

    This also marks the launch of the "single character" period of the show...many MANY episodes at the end of season 6 focus primarily on one character...Riker-centric, Crusher-Centric...ending with Descent being Data-centric. Many of these episodes are outstanding, but you can see that they are stretching to have stuff for all the characters to do every episode. The few left as we approach season 7 are all win!
  8. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Yeah, I wish they had expanded Crusher's role in Lessons- between the guest star's vague resemblance to her, and Beverely's reaction at things in one or two scenes hints that we might see some development in that direction, but it never comes to fruition.

    I think I'm looking forward to this character-centric approach- when they try top cram every single character into an episode it either seems tacked-on or meaningless because there's not enough screentime to go around with such a large cast.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/7/77/RikerFrameOfMind.jpg]
    TNG 621: Frame of Mind
    -Premise: Riker thinks he is losing his mind when reality keeps shifting between an alien hospital and the Enterprise, where he is rehearsing a play.

    -T2Q Comments: Another hazy teaser- if it's one thing TNG never seemingly mastered... Seems kinda weird to be sending the XO of a ship on an undercover mission solo- isn't that what lower ranks and special operatives are for?

    I know we're not really given context, but that seems like an odd scene to end a play on- end an act on, sure, but the whole play?

    The "nooooooo!" is a bit funny. This alien design is kinda distracting- they should have just used all humans or something- why not use Tasha's planet again or something?

    Level 16 of a phaser can destroy half a building? I mean, sure, we saw Data fry an entire aquaduct system but that coulda been chalked up to the conduit itself or some kind of chain reaction- that's awfully powerful for a mere standard issue hand weapon.

    Ahahahahaha- here I was, about to comment that they've been handling this type of story very well, seemingly avoiding the annoying cliche of having the character revealed to be on a bed hooked up to a strange machine in the real world towards the end...when, with about 5 minutes to go, Will is revealed to be on a bed hooked up to a strange machine in the real world.

    "Capatin's Log, Stardate 46678.1. Commander Riker has returned safely from his mission to Talonis IV. Doctor Crusher has hit the reset button."

    They should have given us a few more moments of Riker taking down the set, still, despite the last minute cliche, this was a "Good Episode". It's always hard doing an episode where the character wonders if their crazy and if the world of the show is a delussion when the audience knows that (shy a massive, radical revelation about the entire nature of the series) the character's world is definitely real. This does a good job of handling that balancing act, though.


    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/e7/Guinan_and_Beverly_Crusher_%282369%29.jpg]
    TNG 622: Suspicions
    -Premise: Dr. Crusher violates Starfleet regulations and medical ethics when she investigates the death of a Ferengi scientist.

    -T2Q Comments: I remember parts of this episode- don't remember the Ferengi scientist but I remember the shuttle flying into the corona and the metaphasic shielding and the concluding "I don't play tennis" scene. The meta-phasic shielding comes into play in Descent, so even though this is an average-to-good episode, I'll go with "Potentially Essential". This is also Guinan's final appearance on the show




    Up next: TNG 623: Rightful Heir & TNG 624: Second Chances.
  10. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    I've always been torn on suspicions.

    In one part, it's good because of the "breakthrough" nature, and the concert of alien species...nice to see some scientists...even if they are Ferengi.

    But there in lies the biggest issue with this episode...everyone is stretched out of their shoes to make the plot work.

    An investigation trampled by prime directive politics? That's not like Picard, nor is his refusal to go with Crusher (something Stewart tries to counter with a very "my hands are tied" kind of expression in nearly every scene)

    Crusher resigning? Over this? PLEASE!

    When the shuttle got back after the accident...it would've been quarantined and combed...there is no way the grey guy gets away...Sloppy!

    It's an episode that has more modern elements then usual, which is why it seems so odd...you have to almost forget about the "futuristic" part of the show in order for the episode to work...which is hillarious because the trigger mechanism for the plot IS futuristic.

    I'll watch it for Beverly, otherwise leave it. (and as far as rehashing the shield in Descent...there is nothing about the mention of the shield in that episode to make you need to come back to this one...it's a drop in line that could be as much a sci-lingo jibberish as a reference. It's nice that they pay credence to another episode, but it's not imperative to know this episode for that.)
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Noted. Though I'll have to wait to watch Descent to confirm my suspicion (no pun intended), I recall digging the connection as a kid, but that could just be the hazy memory of this episode overlapping with something else.

    You are right that it seems a bit sudden and insignificant an event to require her resignation, though. On the flipside, it's nice to see people in Starfleet actually are occasionally reprimanded for violating orders, especially "hero" characters (versus guest star one-shots).
  12. Koohii Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Why is it that almost all of the "mess with ___Character'S___ mind" episodes involve Riker, the guy with the least personality or mind of his own?
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Outside of Future Imperfect, I can't think of amother. The most prominent one I recall would be the one Geordi episode that I was supremely dissapointing they didn't follow-up on/hit the reset button on.
  14. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    well just off the top of my head...the one where Riker is kidnapped in his sleep and is sleep deprived...not exactly a mind warper, but along the same lines.

    another would be the illusion when Riker is captain, then thinks he's a Romulan prisoner, only to find out it's a lonely alien.

    Both are fairly deep episodes built around a very shallow character.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Future Imperfect is the Riker-Captain one. I had forgotten about the sleep deprivation one.
  16. Zebra3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    Hmm.. there's also Shades of Gray, the season 2 finale that was actually a clip show. Riker has to relive his worst memories to snap him out of a coma.
  17. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    Riker strikes me as intended to be Kirk 2.0, and the writers were never sure how to handle that. Kirk was always in charge, but with Picard being the captain and Riker not being as good at being Kirk as Kirk was, there was never the tension that should have been there. And in all honestly, it would be quite difficult to balance. Take the character too far one way, and you have someone insubordinate who makes Picard or himself look like a moron. Take him too far the other way, and you get William Riker as seen on TNG.
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Speaking of messing with Riker's head...624 adds to the pattern.



    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/8/8e/Kahless.jpg]
    TNG 623: Rightful Heir
    -Premise: At the Klingon monastery on Boreth, Worf sees a very real vision of Kahless the Unforgettable.

    -T2Q Comments: "Worf- what the hell are you doing?" Going cross-eyed, apparently. Following up Birthright's events here. Swordfight with bat'lha is better than you'd think the weapon capable of. The guy who plays Kahless is really good, appropriately captivating.

    Not much to say about this episode- it's quite excellent, and tackles subject matter not usually addressed by Trek in so mature and developed a fashion. Also evolves the Klingon plotline further. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Kahless originally appeared in TOS: The Savage Curtain (though as a barbaric murderer, the discrepancy apparently explained as that manifestation was based on Kirk's perceptions). Final appearance of Gowron on TNG. Deleted dialogue involved a reference to the Duras sisters.



    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/2/29/Thomas_Riker.jpg]
    TNG 624: Second Chances
    -Premise: The Enterprise finds a second Will Riker on a planet that he helped evacuate eight years ago.

    -T2Q Comments: Ah, I remember this one too- definitely into the groove of what i saw back in the day. Very good overlay/splitscreen work in the one shot. This does bring up the old question of just what happens to you during transport- do you maintaina single consciousness, or does yours end and another exactly like you up to the milisecond started on the other? I know we see Barclay's POV in the one episode, but that might not be conclusive, especially here where you can have two identical people come out of one.

    Troi here talks about how things never went back to the way they used to be between her and Riker- a shame they went against that in Insurrection. The exercise dialogue between Beverely and Deanna is amusing. Ok, so maybe this episode shifts at least Deanna towards her and Riker, but then the eventual Worf thing would negate that and even if it didn't, it was Thomas, not Will.

    Data's discussion on doubles is curious, given that he does more or less have one in Lore. I'm glad they didn't take the obvious route of killing "Thomas" off. Good episode, and, since Thomas Riker shows up down the road, Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: First Trek episode directed by LeVar Burton. The first female africian-american astronaut makes a cameo in this episode. As of this episode, each of the five regular male actors have worn two different colored uniforms. This episode reveals Riker's middle name for the first time (we only knew "T" thus far)...thankfully it's not Tiberius;). Most interestingly, during the development of this episode, the production team considered killing off Will Riker and have Thomas Riker join the Enterprise crew as a replacement for Data at operations while Data would be promoted to first officer. That would have been the second time they almost changed the crew dynamic following the Riker-as-Captain possibility of Best of Both Worlds.





    Up next: TNG 625: Timescape.
  19. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    With that picture, I read the title as "Rightful Hair"
  20. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Quite possibly the worst problem is the set up, from very early in the show, of Riker getting his own ship. it seemed to be destined for the guy to bail and get his own chair...the character was built to rise to such ambitions...and from the first time he rejected a command, he was rendered to something of a "second fiddle". Any depth the character could have had would be found in the critical decisions of command (which is why something like "Best of Both Worlds" is a place Riker shines).

    I place the blame squarely on the notion of even having a "first officer"...TOS didn't have that dynamic...yes, Spock was "first officer"...but he was Science Officer first (matter of fact...what is the first source to indicate Spock is first officer? Do they even mention the title in TOS?) The idea of Spock being plucked for another command didn't factor in.

    It's exactly as Raven said...an effort to keep the "Kirk feel",,,or they couldn't decide on a captain...or worse...were hedging their bet on going with the "Picard-style" leader vs. a "Kirk-style"...if Picard bombed, they'd have a dramatic character exit and rush Riker into the captain's chair, re-establishing the Kirkish legacy.

    As it turned out, people liked Picard, and the backup was relegated to "Keanu" like "Whoa" episodes...and cry baby emo ones like Icarus Factor and Pegasus.
  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    The XO role though is something they tried to have from the very start in The Cage- but Mrs. Roddenberry as Number One was nixed by the network. So it makes sense that Gene would try to re-establish that role when he got the chance to do things his way (for better or for worse) with early TNG.

    I actually think the first officer role is something that was missing from TOS- as I mentioned long ago in my comment on The Cage, it avoids the silliness of having the entire command staff (plus Ensign Jimmy ;)) go down on every away mission.
  22. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    avoids the silliness? like the silliness of ALWAYS sending the command staff?[face_laugh]

    The sad thing is that I find Picards "action" stuff much more believable/enjoyable then Rikers. Maybe it's the act as "out of character" that makes it work.

    DS9 struck the best balance with the Captain/First Officer give and take. But then the characters were much better fits to their long term roles.
  23. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    But you're forgetting that space is an ocean, so they need to follow the naval traditions to the dot, hence every starship needs to have a XO ;)
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Well, see I can understand that, for dramatic reasons, we're mostly only seeing the most important away missions/away missions requiring command staff presence. Situations where having your best scientist, engineer or doctor on hand would make sense. But they shouldn't be emptying the bridge in the process- at least one high-ranking officer, CO or XO, should remain.

    I mean, in TOS, when Kirk and Spock are on every away mission, whose running the ship? Sometimes we see Scotty, but he could be needed in engineering at a moment's notice. Sulu and Chekov were low in rank at the time, etc.
  25. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    When Riker. Data, Worf, Crusher, Troi are planet side on a "survey mission"...I call that absurd.

    Might as well have Picard there, the rest of the boat is down there.

    It's all TV...and why they try to feign a nod to some "Star Fleet" rule just makes the TV element all the more glaring.

    I'm not saying have Picard going shirtless and fight with Green Aliens...but get past this Idea that this is all some well designed form of efficient space-faring.

    ---------

    And Naval tradition was based upon the command staff being "trained" for action, rather then being simple sailors who were often impressed into service and couldn't be counted on off ship. The XO was also in most cases likely to take command of a captured vessel, and thus would be a step out the door as it was. Today's navies do not send Captains, XO's, Engineers, Chief Medical Officers, on scouting missions to uncertain shores. We have the capacity of loyal and specialized crew on ships to not need to put them in harm's way.

    The Enterprise D had a crew over 1000...most of which being Starfleet grads (way too few enlisted men, another beef).

    I think Riker went on most of these missions to get his kicks...Picard gave him the prerogative...so he went and played his best Kirk on each mission.