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Amph Engage! The Star Trek: TNG General Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Constant_shadow, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
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    TNG 706: Phantasms
    -Premise: Interphasic parasites contaminating a conduit in a temporary replacement warp core cause Data's dream program to generate nightmares.

    -T2Q Comments: (first off, that's the most technobabbletastic premise description I've come across on Memory Alpha thus far!)

    Granted, this is Data, but I find it odd that he doesn't remove his boots before going to bed. Troi cake- mmm, delicious. I actually remember that moment, as well as the scene of Crusher sucking Riker...'s brain. Admiral Nakamora- scientist from B5: Thirdspace.

    I like that they more or less recreate the piece of stock footage used so often for the warp jump to use for the second jump failure.

    "Next time- see me before you see Sigmund"

    The stabbing scene is certainly an eye raiser (apparently US reaction had this scene trimmed down by the BBC for the Uk airing)

    "Tell him he is a pretty cat."

    I remember this phased parasite things- creepy. One flaw in this analysis, as the imagery is said to have the workers represent the creatures who are "demolishing the ship" when the creatures' threat is actually devouring the crew, not the ship.

    This is probably their best success yet at an episode centered around dream images or nightmares- be a nice component to a Halloween playlist. This is also something of a sequel to Birthright (it establishes that 9 months have passed since then), though not directly so, only so far as the development of the dream program goes.

    As such I'd say it's standalone enough to be just "Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential" though I'd definitely want to see it again, so it's another borderline episode between GEBNNE and Definitely Essential (or, perhaps, "Potentially Essential).

    Up next: TNG 707: Dark Page & TNG 708: Attached.
  2. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    Phantasms is one of the last episodes were you can really feel them trying to "include everyone" in an episode. There are a number of these in the later get a real "classic theater troop" feel...which is funny because they actually play that up in "Time's Arrow".

    I'm trying to think of the last season, and the only other one like this I can think of is when the enterprise spawns an intelligent of the last episodes.

    Now certainly, most episodes have most or all the cast in them...but they have their scenes, and are only really together in the ready room or maybe on the bridge momentarily...these episodes bring them all together uniquely.

    For good or ill...sometimes it works...sometimes it's lousy.

    This one is okay.
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    I do get the impression that they're using Season 7 as more of a cast farwell tour by having more character-specific or character pair-specific episodes than usual.

    TNG 707: Dark Page
    -Premise: Lwaxana Troi visits the Enterprise, but she's preoccupied by a dark secret she has carried for years.

    -T2Q Comments: Mama Troi returns. Wow, terribly cheap and awul alien design (basically completely human with a fleshy mini-Lobot band) and, was that Kirsten Dunst? (yep!)

    This form of telepathy seems woefully inefficient- by that I mean needing to stare intently at the other for a long while in twice the time it would take to speak.

    I find it interesting that they'd do another episode around dream/mental imagery so soon after the Phantasms episode- though they somewhat acknowledge this in a scene with Data.

    While the Troi plot resolves, the aliens of the week stuff is left hanging again.

    For a Troi/Mama Troi episode, this one ain't bad- it's handled well, is only partially predictable, and it establishes Deanna's unknown sister (something I don't recall ever knowing about her). I don't want to say this is essential, nor do I want to say it's a Good Episode, but it's not as bad as an average episode, so, I'll give it some mercy and keep it in the Good Episode category, even though I don't expect I'll be rewatching this episode in the future more than once.

    Also worth noting that this is the only appearance of Troi's dad, and is the final appearance of Mama Troi on TNG, as well as Mama Troi'd final appearance onscreen with Deanna.

    TNG 708: Attached
    -Premise: After escaping imprisonment on an alien world, Picard and Beverly find that their thoughts are connected by brain implants.

    -T2Q Comments: I know I'm kind of a geek about this, but I'm disappointed they decided to cut off the Picard/Crusher discussion in the middle of the analogy about Australia and the global government formation and their place within the Federation- that sorta stuff could go on for a bit and still be very interesting.

    Partway through this episode I'm just really hoping there isn't some dark secret the Kess are hiding from the Federation about their relations with the Pritt- just for once it'd be nice to have the faction in question be on the level, despite cultural eccentricities and to show a broader vision of what peoples could be part of the Federation- putting to rest Picard's concerns about an ununified world being a Federation member and showing that there is enough cultural diversity to allow such a split-world arrangement be possible.

    Crusher's fear of heights seems odd- didn't she do heights before in other episodes like that covert mission in Chain of Command? (hmm, guess I was wrong- looking it up it seems she does mention it in Chain of Command Part I).

    Oh, I'm starting to recognize this episode from the original airing now.

    Crusher's line at the forcefield can essentially be broken down to "I think I can use the tricorder to do something it shouldn't be capable of".

    Dammit, Beverely, turn around and go back in the room... damn you reset button! damn you!

    In that it evolves the Picard/Crusher angle more than almost any other episode, and it being a generally solid episode (despite my slight disappointment over the nature of the Kess just to give Riker a scene of righteousness), I will classify this one as Definitely Essential. I'll definitely be rewatching this one down the road.

    Trivia: One of two Season 7 episodes written by Carl Sagan's son, Nicholas.

    Up next: TNG 709: Forces of Nature.
  4. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    For the record...this is post number 5000 for me on this board...and I am blowing it on STAR TREK!

    that said.


    Picard/Crusher FINALLY get's some more clarification, and OUCH does it HURT!

    2nd is right, the "government" issues in the background of this episode are crudely constructed for the sake of providing a premise for Picard and Crusher.

    Moreover, I love how the link is a side effect...don't you think the Kess would be trying to use such a side effect to extract's almost as good as Goa'uld memories broadcast on a screen!

    Oh and the Planet is "Kessprytt" with the "Kess" and the "Prytt"...Carl Sagan's son wrote this episode, you know. :rolleyes:

    OH, COME ON!

    After "Lessons", I was nervous that they were writing away from this. But with this episode, "Sub Rosa" in a couple, and then "All Good Things"...they right the ship.

    To this day, I wish they would've used Crusher in Picard's "Nexus" dream in Generations. That still confuses me.

    Anyway...yeah...5000th post in Star Wars board on Star Trek.


    It's almost a political statement. :cool:
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    I wish they would have used Crusher in Insurrectiin more- we'd be spared the local girl of the week, and develop the core cast more, instead of just using it as an excuse to 180 Troi/Riker/Worf. Not to mention the planet gave her firmer boobs, so Picard should jump at that :p
  6. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    I believe it's an intentional course in the films, to make Picard a little more kirk-like for the movie audience.

    There are a few things about the TNG movies that seem to try to connect them to the original trek films over their own series precedents.

    Picard is a leading romantic interest in the films, even if there isn't much romance happening. It provides for an almost James Bond like "always open for love" attitude, not tied down...certainly not pining away for the ship's doctor.
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
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    TNG 709: Forces of Nature
    -Premise: Investigating the disappearance of several ships, the Enterprise discovers two scientists who claim that warp drive is destructive to the fabric of subspace.

    -T2Q Comments: "Geordi- I cannot stun my cat."

    "I have not been entirely successful."

    I like that they're exploring the possibility of a negative environmental effect to the use of warp travel- it's always interesting when a technology that's taken for granted is, even if momentarily, able to come into question or become of concern- especially when we're talking about warping space.

    Interesting how the warp pulse effect resembles the warp drive effect of the TOS movies.

    I think these are new "D gets spun around" effects, which is nice given they could have reused stock footage from the previous 2 types of "slap waves".

    "...will have repercussions for years to come" i don't think this is ever brought up again so that is not an "entirely successful" prediction ;)

    I would like to know what the eventual results are to the reactions of other races mentioned here- Ferengi, Cardassians, Romulans, etc.

    Even though there is a severe disconnect between the rift plotline and the cat plotline (which I'm partially grateful for- I was dreading an overt connection/solution between the two!), I can excuse the cat stuff as what has been confirmed to be filler material for an episode that ran short.

    Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential. Though the production team rather disliked this one so perhaps I'm in the minority here, as I didn't find the environmental theme to be that overt.

    I wish they had explored the impact on the Federation of potentially limiting warp drive use- like Geordi mentions, it's their backbone; not to mention this episode gave predictions for the next 40 years in 10 year intervals, and Nemesis is just about 10 years later and Countdown/destruction of Romulus is just under 20 years later.

    Trivia: an unpublished technical manual for Voyager Season 1 suggests that the variable-geometry pylons (aka, the multi-position nacelles used on ships like Voyager) may prevent warp fields from having a negative impact on habitable worlds.

    Up next: TNG 710: Inheritance & TNG 711: Parallels.
  8. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Oct 28, 2001
    I distinctly remember there were one or two episodes where an admiral specifically told them that they were authorized to exceed the Warp 5 restriction put in place because of whatever emergency they were facing.

    I remember thinking that it was a nice bit of continuity for them to mention that.

    Kimball Kinnison
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    I'll keep an eye/ear open for that.
  10. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    Yeah...I remember after this one, they do mention permission to exceed the limits.

    I believe "The Pegasus" is one of them.

    You also don't get the "maximum warp" calls as frequently.

    Though, the finale has ships in the future going Warp who knows.
  11. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Jul 2, 2003
    I hated 'Force of Nature'. :mad: Think about it. Those destabilizing effects are pretty much in one region of the galaxy, nowhere else. And that nutjob detonates her ship, causing the type of thing she wanted to prevent! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Anvilicious, much?
  12. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    Another extremely preachy episode...and the meta-message that should be delivered is..."hey, there are nut jobs out their willing to do anything to make you see it their way".

    But, of course, that message is lost, and the chick is remembered as being courageous for her sacrifice.

    Yeah...we live in a very different world from when this aired.
  13. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    I think the chick's intentions were to prove the threat existed by creating a rip that wasn't too close to her world, instead of waiting for one that might happen right on top of them.

    The specific regional conditions, however, did make me wonder though- as your right, it seems the threat would only be to areas with that type of radiation or where starships were funneled through the same corridor often. Open space wouldn't seem to be affected, but perhaps that was just a preliminary precaution until the nature of this new threat could be properly analyzed.

    I still think the general concept is pretty cool- if only to have Starfleet have to adapt on such an important technology that took for granted.
  14. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Jul 2, 2003
    Precisely, Jedimarine. Picard was willing to listen to her and take this up with the Federation Council. So naturally she'd go out and cause the insane space-eating rift she was trying to prevent. :rolleyes:

  15. Ultima_1

    Ultima_1 Jedi Knight star 5

    May 16, 2001
    I think I remember hearing something about Voyager's warp engines being designed to not cause the damage the older warp drives do. I have no idea if this is something actually mentioned or if it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

    I do distinctly remember the bits about the Enterprise being permitted to exceed Warp 5 for certain missions though.
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    yeah, i mentioned the Voyager thing above- it was apparently suggested in an unpublished tech manual for Voyager Season 1.
  17. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    I wonder...if such a statement was made about Voyager...did the E have some kind of "green" engines? I don't recall ever hearing that.

    Perhaps at the time of Voyager's launch, they felt it a prudent mention...but figure people forgot by the time the E came around.
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah- I'd have to assume that if Voyager had the "green" engines, then any ships made after it would too, even if they didn't move.

    TNG 710: Inheritance
    -Premise: Data meets Juliana Tainer, former wife of Dr. Noonien Soong and Data's "mother," but she holds a shocking secret that even she doesn't know she carries.

    -T2Q Comments: I know this chick playing Data's mom from somewhere..let's see here...she was in the DS9 episode "Dax" but under some makeup so that's not it...she was the mother in The Ewok Adventure, no that's not it... aha, she's Eloise Hawking on Lost!!

    ...and they are apparently using the plot of The Core for this episode. This alien dude looks like he's half Ferengi.

    Amused at the "fake" hands playing violin here. Reference to Loll from The Offspring here. Reference to three pre-Lore prototype androids...B4?. Why would the beam-down site be so far from the unit's location, especially with those pattern enhancers present? A reference to Data aging in appearance as part of his program- I think this is the first time that was mentioned. Maybe Spiner hasn't aged out of the role afterall.

    Another legacy of Soong. I think this kinda wraps up the last of Soong's story, chronologically, B4 not withstanding. And it's well acted and written- though the alien dude was pretty much unnecessary (his brief scene where he questions the ability of a machine seemed like it was going to spawn an annoying subplot, but it doesn't go anywhere thankfully); Definitely Essential.

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    TNG 711: Parallels
    -Premise: After he returns from a bat'leth tournament, Worf is the only person who notices subtle changes on the Enterprise.

    -T2Q Comments: Ah, an episode I've been looking forward to for a very long time. That's actually a pretty sweet looking trophy.

    Back to this I suspect it's only because they could reuse the stock footage but I do like the idea of them returning to a place visited before, as it seems too often they just move on and forget about a place, even one that is a Federation operation or installation- it brings a sense of the world to the forefront.

    Non-specific reference to the Worf/dying/spine thing, not direct enough to warrant an upgrade of that episode's ranking.

    "That would make my mother your step-mother."

    ::eyes bug out:: "I had not considered is a risk I am willing to take."

    Deep Space 5 shown (at least on a screen). The Utopia Planetia Shipyards show a Galaxy-class being constructed on the surface. I like the notion of a faction using the Federation's own arrays/etc to spy on them.

    The scene with Data is more specific about the Worf/spine episode- might have to upgrade that one.

    So I guess the universe Worf enters where Picard is dead and Riker is Captain is the alternate universe where Stewart's contract wasn't renewed/didn't re-sign? ;)

    The structure behind Wesley, besides looking like it would get in the way, actually kinda evokes an element of the new bridge design of the new movie. Is that a Cardassian ensign? Well, here comes some hostile Bajorans to explain that.

    The image of the multiple Enterprises is one I remember very clearly, as well as some of the events to come. Wesley's line could be interpretated as "The Bajoran ship has crapped their pants and is disengaging"

    "Sir, we're receiving 285,000 hails."

    Be great if they could somehow harness this ty
  19. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    May 25, 2000
    Yeah, this episode was made of win!
  20. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    Moreover...this episode is SO win...they decide to do it again! For the series finale! :p
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
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    TNG 712: The Pegasus
    -Premise: When Riker's first commanding officer comes aboard, in search of the vessel they served on, he is forced to rethink the actions he took at the time.

    -T2Q Comments: Riker mocking Picard via the doll makes me wish he carried it around for the rest of the series. First reference to he "permission to exceed warp limits" bit.

    -and John Locke just beamed aboard the Enterprise.

    Somehow he looks older here than he did on not just Lost, but also Millennium and The X-Files movie.

    Is this the first black Romulan we've come across?

    "How long have you had that beard?"
    "About 4 years"

    Hasn't it been more like 5 or 6?

    This is one of the first instances, to my recollection, where we see the concept introduced of the Federation actively trying to develop technologies/capabilities that can alter the balance of power in the quadrant- they previously seemed much more passive in that regard, or had more limited aims in mind with past experiments.

    The shots of the Enterprise going through the chasm tunnel are quite awesome and refreshingly different.

    You know it's odd that the vast majority of higher-ups and Admirals in starfleet tend to be nuts or just plain short with people, very few ever want to help out the crew of the ship.

    Introduction of the decades-old treaty with the Romulans against Federation-developed cloaking technology. Rare shot of the Enterprise cloaking and declaoking.

    "I have a lot of friends at Starfleet Command. Captain."
    "You're going to need them."

    It's a shame they don't give Admiral Pressman a final scene after that.

    Well, this one is Definitely Essential- from the small things like the insight into events preceding Farpoint and Riker's past, to the fleshing out of Romulan/Federation relations past and present (as well as insight into one facet of that balance between them) to how the cloaking tech issue will eventually factor into the Defiant, to how this ties into the Enterprise finale coda.

    Trivia: this story was inspired by "Raise the Titanic!". First time an Enterprise has used a cloak since TOS: The Enterprise Incident- Ron Moore wanted to "sew up" the lingering question of why the Federation doesn't use cloaks, mostly because he was sick of being asked that at conventions.

    Admiral Pressman was almost used in an episode of DS9 based on how impressed the staff was with Terry O'Quinn's performance, and it's speculated that, in light of Enterprise, Pressman may have been a part of Section 31.

    The episode was scored by John Debney who at the time was well known for scoring episodes (and the main theme) of seaQuest DSV.

    The Pegasus was originally supposed to be a differnt class of starship but was changed so that a new model wouldn't have to be built- but displays of the original design intention can be seen inside it's engineerings ection.

    Ron moore: "I am proud to say that I've written another insane Admiral. They must put something in the water at Federation Headquarters."

    ENT 422: These Are the Voyages...
    I'm not going to rewatch this episode or review it here, but I felt it was worth noting that it is during this episode that the last episode of Enterprise is set during, as a bookending story via holodeck of the events of Enterprise's time. The full story of that episode wouldn't have the proper context outside of Enterprise, IMO, which i why I'm going to skip it at this point (though I may review The Pegasus again in the context of having watched TATV once I finish ENT).

    For now, enough to note the lovely CGi makeover of the D, and to give us a glimpse of what a "TNG: Remastered" version could look like if they ever give TNG that treatment. Also we can be amused at
  22. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    May 25, 2000
    Yeah, I wet my pants a little the first time I saw the Enterprise D de-cloaking :-B :p

    This also gives you a glimpse of just how technologically awesome the Federation is: not only did they make a cloaking device that was better than the Romulans :eek: but they did it on the sly...
  23. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    Isn't the whole point of a cloaking device to be "on the sly"?

    I don't me, this was always a reach..."sure, we'll sign a treaty giving you a strategic advantage over us for no reason of equal worth".

    I mean, at least the Klingons and Romulans dealt "cloak for warp" tech. This is one of those "we're going to be better then you" treaties that tells you the ghosts of Roddenberry's utopian snobbery was still floating the halls.

    That said, Pressman is a jerk, and certainly NOT interested in the cloak for the federation, despite his rants. This is his golden ticket to a strategic planning position or something along the lines...if he were that concerned about the federation security, he would've gone right back to work building a NEW cloaking device.

    The fact that he didn't meant he wasn't permitted to, meant his screw up cost him the chance...only the discovery of the ship could redeem his shiftless career...which is why he rushed out their, under eyes of suspicion.

    I HATE the idea of Pressman being section 31...he's got no tact for the job, and is not the true believer it would take. If anything, Section 31 used his stunts as cover...surely if morons like Pressman are at the top of the Federation "cloak and dagger" department...something like section 31 couldn't possibly exist.

    But then again...Section 31 is one of the those ideas that was captivating in it's mystery at first mention, and becomes less impressive as the details come forward.

  24. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    May 25, 2000
    What I'm getting at is that while the Romulans had the resources of the entire empire at their disposal, the Federation came up with a better cloaking device, made by some dudes on a ship.
  25. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 13, 2001
    Well of course they did.

    Super-human mythos at work.

    Properly applied, there is no match to the ingenuity of the 24th century human mind.

    To modern viewers, we are to be filled with hope at our potential. If you delve any deeper, the inherent bias leaves a nasty aftertaste.

    But there again, much like GL, Roddenberry didn't think as much about it as his fans would. I have often wondered how Roddenberry would've faired in the Internet era...I suspect he'd hate his fans, and vice versa.