Amph Engage! The Star Trek: TNG General Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Constant_shadow, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Wait'll he got a load of me [face_devil]

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    TNG 713: Homeward
    -Premise: Worf's adoptive brother violates the Prime Directive by saving a group of villagers from a doomed planet.

    -T2Q Comments: One of those "we'll have to let them die out because of the Prime Directive" type events, though I'm trying to remember if Worf's adopted brother has been mentioned before this. Also, they seem a bit too casual about surgically altering their appearance, especially for what would seem like a short-term mission.

    Wonder why a security team would be in charge of locating an energy drain/surge/whatever at a transfer link? shouldn't engineering crews be doing that?

    Seems like there should be a solution to this holodeck problem- wait till they are asleep again, transport them out, keep them in the buffer, reinitialize the holodeck, complete the transport back to same location, viola- solution!

    Now that I dwell on it, this plan is very much like the bad guy's plan in Insurrection to relocate a people unknowingly. This kind of concept is stuff I'd like to see in Trek more often, even if it violates the prime directive- a crew saving worlds using their technology.

    The reveal of the archdoor and corridor is done nicely- if a bit familiar from Moriarty's experiences, but minor things like the sound of the door opening can come across as ominous in such context.

    "Can I take this (the only surviving document of this peoples' history) with me?" "it's yours."... really?.

    Good Episode, But Not Neccessarily Essential



    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/f6/Ronin.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/a/a0/Camellias.jpg] [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/d/db/Ronin%27s_reflection.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/98/Data_on_foggy_Enterprise-D_bridge.jpg]
    TNG 714: Sub Rosa
    -Premise: Beverly attends her grandmother's funeral, but the mysterious entity that inhabited her grandmother is now focusing on her.

    -T2Q Comments: You know it's kinda funny, even if understandable for the viewers sake, that you rarely hear of any other part of an alien world be referred to by name only, as Scotland is here. As much as I enjoy seeing the regular routine work of checking up on the colony's systems and identifying weather control problems, it's hard to sympathize with the Governor's annoyance/worry/agitation at the mere possibility of rain.

    There's a certain "ew" factor in reacting to the connection between Beverely's dream and her grandmother's erotic journal entries- because that's just such a natural reaction to reading such material.

    I wonder why they can't just move the ship away from the planet- surely the power transfer beam has some kind of range limit, at least so far as a feedback loop problem would be concerned?

    Though it initially feels like this is from a bad romance novel or lifetime movie, there's seems to be a drug addict facet emerging that could salvage the episode...

    There's no way Picard would just let her leave with so brief an explanation. The part where Picard walks in on Beverly is..interesting, ha- especially considering this was a pre-primetime family show when it aired.

    The part about her eyes changing clicks with some memories- I likely saw at least part of this episode during it's first airing.

    The bit with grandma's corpse is a bit creepy. The ending isn't half bad, even if you kinda already know how it's going to play out- but Crusher's outrage at the use of her family does give her a moment or two of development she often lacks- though I'd like to have seen more play about how she's lost so many of her family. Still, the episode doens't follow up on the potential addict angle. In a way this feels like an oddity and flipside to that episode with Picard's Lt girlfriend.

    Interesting for them try
  2. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/7/7f/Vorin.jpg]

    And after his suicide, it turns out that he's mastered resurrection technology and is now masquerading as a special investigator on Caprica :p
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Ha! I knew I recognized him from somewhere (though I'm sure I've seen him on others shows before Caprica).
  4. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

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    God, I *BLEEPING* hated[/i] Homeward. "We have the technology to save part of their civilization... nah!" **** you, Picard. This is why Kirk is better than you! To quote from 'The World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky..."

    "No, the people of Yonada may be changed by the knowledge, but it's better than exterminating them."

    Replace Yonada with the name of the people saved here... ugh, such a bad taste.
  5. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Special double-sized catch-me-update!


    [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/d/df/Sito_jaxa.jpg]
    TNG 715: Lower Decks
    -Premise: Junior officers speculate on the reasons for recent unusual actions taken by the command crew near the Cardassian border.

    -T2Q Comments: I like the lower-rank perspective and how we only get pieces of events lacking briefing room context. Though part of me would have liked the focus to be of non-Bridge personnel (truly "lower decks", as opposed to here where it's really "upper deck background players"- but I suppose that'd be too "A View From the Gallery" ;)).

    I forgot Jaxa was in The First Duty. Geordi asks for a 4 second burst from the phaser rifle, yet after the Vulcan moves and they have their conversation, he only gives the shuttle a quick shot. The double-poker table sequence is quite good, like the cuts back and forth.

    There's really not much to say- this is a great episode, part of me wishes she'd show up alive in a DS9 episode or something but that might detract from the impact of this episode's ending. But I always say how much I love the more grounded material in Trek episodes, and this certainly qualifies.

    As a sequel to The First Duty, of sorts, and overall quality, I'll go with "Definitely Essential".

    Trivia: Barclay was briefly considered to be among the characters but was dismissed for being too well-known. Had the series continued, Taurik would have been a recurring character (though he does appear as another Vulcan on Voyager down the road). Jaxa's death was originally more ambigous, and, in fact, an unproduced DS9 script was written that would find Jaxa in a Cardassian prison (ha, great minds...), though it would end up being the basis for the episode "Hard Time"- Moore said that they talked about it for quite awhile but ultimately decided that it would rob Lower Decks of a great ending. A lot of rumors at the time had it that these characters were introduced to become characters on Voyager. Troi's joking promotion here in the teaser is amusing, given the events of the next TNG episode...



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    TNG 716: Thine Own Self
    -Premise: Data suffers amnesia in a primitive society while Troi applies for a promotion.

    -T2Q Comments: Another rare look at the night watch shift on the bridge, with Beverely in the chair (interesting that she reveals that she likes it, given forthcoming aspects of the series finale), and it's interesting to have her and Troi discussing the ranks in relation to their other positions.

    Way too Earthy-looking species here- and it's Colonel Young! ha, nice. References to Lower Decks as well as Disaster (by name, even).

    The blacksmith is played by Mike Hagerty, whom I recognize from several other movies (he also played a Klingon back in Redemption).

    Despite the human-like villagers, it's a great little scenario here and I clearly remember this one. It doesn't seem right that Troi now outranks Data, though.

    For the Troi promotion and general quality, "Definitely Essential"

    Trivia: the Troi promotion subplot was originally planned for Liasons, and was inspired by the novelization of Unification, where Troi reflects upon the events of Disaster as she does here. The Data plotline is inspired by Frankenstein. For the single line and appearance at the end, this episode has what is likely the briefest appearance of a series lead. The Shakespeare line the episode title originates from was quoted by Data to Riker back in Hide and Q. This is the last time Riker plays the Trombone on the series.



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    TNG 717: Masks
    -Premise: While investigating a rogue comet, the cultural archive concealed inside begins taking over the Enterprise.

    -T2Q Comments: Captain's Log, we have finally found that damn comet that's been buzzing
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    On another note, while cleaning out the basement in search of items damaged from flooding, I came across this little craft project:

    [image=http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa163/The2ndQuest/Misc/TrekYarn-final.jpg]

    Must have made that in middleschool or cub scouts. Haven't seen it since then, that's for sure. Just a strange coincidence that it would reemerge now, with me half a season from finishing my first viewing of TNG since it's original airing (especially since I probably made this while roughly in the same place of the 7th season!).
  7. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Real Quick:

    Lower Decks: Heartbreaking episode...they work so hard to endear the girl to you, and that happens...crushing. Episode with a gut punch at the end, but I guess if they are going for whatever emotional response they can get, they got one. Hate all the other juniors...just the Bajoran girl. The nurse girl needed to be left in the background...it bugged me how her character got expanded in season 7. Good once...hard to watch again.

    Thine Own Self: Love the Data part, despise the Troi part. The only flaw with Data's "assimilation" is sooner or later people are going to notice he doesn't have normal bathroom habits...or sweat...or bleed. Troi...well that just the absurdity of the Kobyashi Maru or the Academy Psych test all over again...it plays into a no win situation when the show outright REFUSES to face those factors outside a test environment. The closest TNG ever got was sending Enterprise C back to the past, and even then they loaded her up the best they could. Add to that Troi comes off as being inept at exuding confidence. It takes more then the ability to make tough decisions to command...they attempt to make you think that's all it is.

    Masks: A good "ensemble" episode...the artifacts slowly forming only to be wiped away quickly...computers work that way all the time...it's quite plausible...especially if the alien tech was having to work into more and more of the ship. Why Data was the only conduit for these memories puzzles me. They did a good job of detailing the mythos, but it could've been more alien...it comes off as a very earth-based culture. Decent.

  8. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    So I caught an episode of TNG tonight...and "money" appeared again.

    I am constantly fascinated by the back and forth between the whether money was used in TNG or not.

    Sometimes it's hard to image a use for money, and other instances it's hard to imagine going without it.

    Moreover, the biggest obstacle is this idea of having no need in one aspect of life, and yet a real need in other places.

    You don't need credits on the Enterprise...but you sure do on DS9. The TNG episode I caught had Worf and Alexander at a Klingon festival...he needed money.

    How does one acquire money when your work is in a society that rejects it? Is the assumption that the federation is so wealthy as to provide it's citizens with money on request?

    Another one I always think of is the antique glasses Bones gets Kirk in Wrath of Khan. Did he buy them? Do you just ask for relics like that? Barter?

    It really should be settled once and for all one way or another with this reboot.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    It is annoyingly uneven. I remember back in that early episode with Picard on the starbase where they mention money/buying. There would have to be some kind of exchange present between the Federation and non-Federation worlds for them to interact with a currency-based society.
  10. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Jumping to DS9...Sisko's dad runs a restaurant on earth...does he just feed people who come in off the street? What is the impetus to attend one restaurant over another...if the society is truly egalitarian, then the materials used to produce the meals are virtually on par everywhere, leaving only the skill of the chef...but is the skill of the chef to draw a crowd of restaurant goers sufficient compensations for a life's work? Even if you do what you love, can it really be all you do?

    There is just so much in the fine detail of the Utopian vision that has never been fully explored, both because the attempts to achieve it have collapsed, and also because we just don't have a practical understanding of our behavior as a society or an individual if we got any closer to such a society.

    Star Trek has always tried to portray life as universally egalitarian and more then sufficient for all, but otherwise much the same in practice to our everyday lives today. This is ABSURD, and yet another aspect where it seems clear old Gene didn't dwell too deep on what he was doing.
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Yeah, there are impracticalities not really swelled upon, usually because we're rarely interacting on a "core Federation"-only environment where those issues would arise. It's always starships, remote colonies, alien societies or outposts where the Federation has to adapt those concepts to be able to interact with other races.



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    TNG 718: Eye of the Beholder
    -Premise: Counselor Troi's investigation into the suicide of a crewman suggests a murder was committed aboard the Enterprise while it was being built, and that the murderer is still aboard.

    -T2Q Comments: This is a part of the ship we haven't seen before- the interior of the nacelles. Can't help but think that they should have been able to beam him out of there- lock onto his communicator, etc.

    Another mention of permission to exceed warp speed limitations here. Some steps in the Deanna/Worf relationship.

    I like that they use Troi for the investigation here- her abilities making her well suited to interviews and inquiries since she can sense one's truthfullness.

    Ok, more than just some steps in the Deanna/Worf relationship, ha!

    The interior of the nacelle doesn't seem t be long enough- I wonder if there are multiple chambers like this one, end-to-end? Yeah, though kinda predictable, the skeleton in the wall is kinda creepy.

    Hmm, so two steps forward, one step back with Troi/Worf?

    Good Episode, perhaps Potentially Essential since it evolves TroiWorf partially. Blended together, I'll give it a Definitely Essential classification, though your mileage may vary.



    Up next: TNG 719: Genesis & TNG 720: Journey's End.
  12. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    I loved how this episode threw a wrench into the "tech manual" schematics of the D. My best friend threw a FIT..."THAT CANNOT BE THERE!"

    LOL...ah, memories.

    I always thought this must have been "sets" money they had to burn before the show ended, mixed with some CGI matte tests.

    The "many realities of Worf" episode is Worfs "realization" concerning Troi.

    This is the flipside...Troi's "realization" concerning Worf.

    And of course, the finale puts that all together...this unholy union.

    Worf and Dax was WAY better...Troi and Riker is too predictable to stomach, but she needed somebody.
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
  14. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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    This is something I've put some thought into... what if there are non-monetary incentives for performing certain jobs? For example, could a person who does a job that one wouldn't normally choose because it's their life's dream to do it (eg. trash collector) receive privileges like a nicer house than other people get? Could they then barter those privileges with others? Maybe privilege-swapping is how people pay things like restaurant bills and bar tabs.
  15. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Except that's not egalitarian, you've simply changed the manner of exchange from monetary to a barter system, which is actually less equitable because of a non-standard basis for trade. Having to be constantly aware of what has what trade value would permeate your choices...be more paranoid about exchange rates then Ferengi.

    Additionally...if you have an egalitarian society, then things like "nicer houses" wouldn't exist...the society would work towards equity, or at least comparable to need (a family of 8 needing an appropriate home, a single man an appropriate apartment, etc)

    Of course, how you determine "equity" would be subject to debate, not to mention, 2 homes are identical, one has an ocean view, the other faces a industrial park...are they equal...well, these are questions that cannot be answered in simple terms...likely some kind of "scale" of home accessories to balance out location would be required...man that gets complicated fast.

    Not to mention, with casual affairs of life...do you want to enter into a contractual bargaining agreement whenever you go out to dinner or clothes shopping, or visit the theater? You wouldn't be able to work because you'd spend your time at random jobs...your sole pursuit in life is not going to be needed by every person you shop from.

    Truth is, money has to be in there somewhere...now I would guess there are numerous protections in place to avoid poverty or homelessness, and perhaps people and businesses are inclined to provide more gratis...but in the end, a form of monetary transaction, perhaps not to subsist, but to accumulate it in the reach for dreams or enjoy the luxuries of life beyond the society "blanket" lifestyle.

  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Luxuries do seem to be separate in some way- many times there's talk of how people are just getting a replicator or couldn't afford/wasn't capable of getting one, which suggests there's some degree of value or qualification in order to acquire one.
  17. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    I always thought that had more to do with availability then expense or luxury...but you could be right.

    It's hard to imagine much need when replicators can do so much, even if you don't have one privately.

    The other thing Star Trek does is try to stress the merits of "clutter-free" existence...when you consider that DATA, of all the crew, has the most in terms of "keepsakes"...it should ring bells. There is a conscious focus on imagery that downplays the materialistic...a trombone...a baseball...a flute...small treasures...a counter to a material world, where I'm huddled amongst my memorabilia, my private library, my dvd collection, etc.

    And yet...not really any reason to assume that personality is lost...unless in utopia, collectors are evil...though I guess their was an episode that painted collectors as evil.
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Yeah, that one with the guy who kidnapped Data for his collection, right? The could-have-been-good-with-a-rededit one, heh.

    I also have to think that collectors wouldn't have a place in the environments of the shows we see. On a starship there's not much of a place for a heavy collector (though Picard's archaeology trinkets might qualify as an exception), nor on a starbase or on DS9 (where you have either starfleet crew or somewhat impoverished Bajorans as the only real common folk) and everyone else we meet we don't usually get to know that closely since they're one-episode guest stars.
  19. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Thinking about it, probably the most "congested" living space you see in the entire franchise is Kirk's pad in San Francisco in II and III...stuff on the walls, etc...and of course, Bone's gift.

    What's even better is when you start seeing things like Jean Luc's brother's place...is he Amish? Talk about THROW BACK.

    But there again, you have to start wondering if they even make material goods as we know them...as opposed to SW, I don't believe Star Trek has ever made mention of a "film" format...musicians tend to be more wandering bards then arena sensations...all books ever are probably accessible from any datapad...and as we know from TNG...videogames are BAD.

  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Films/video games seem to have been replaced by holodecks- and (presumably by extension of that interacting format) a resurrected interest in live stage performance (though I wonder how much of that is a reflection of the culture, and how much of it was just Crusher- though there was the one stage actor group in TOS too).
  21. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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    The more "primitive" crew on ENT did watch movies in the mess hall, but I'm not sure if there were any later references to film.

    Maybe the way Roddenberry saw it, there wouldn't be any way to make movies in his utopia because one couldn't make a summer blockbuster in a universe with no wars/big explodey things. And no artsy film if there are no dramatic interpersonal conflicts worthy of analysis. :p

    Semi-related, I wonder what's happened to human music in the time between the 21st century and the 24th - you seldom hear anyone listening to Earth music that isn't at least a few hundred years old. I know, out of universe, they probably didn't want to try to include future music because it's expensive to hire people to score a TV show, but it would've been nice to encounter a little more of it.
  22. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Well in the more "classic" Trek sense (TOS, TNG) is seems that "personal" time is spent in what we'd likely call "worthwhile" pursuits.

    Education-related, expanding personal experience, attaining physical/spiritual heights, etc.

    Martial Arts, Performing Arts, Musical Instruments, Painting, Reading Classics...even the holodeck was frequently used in such pursuits...even the more "indulgent" programs like the Holmes program or Picard's Detective program had a mental flex and a challenge to them.

    Now one could certainly say similar things about modern videogames...but it could be argued there's differences.

    In later iteration of Trek...DS9, Voyager, ENT...there was a refocus toward approachable humanity...a common ground with viewers...particularly with ENT, which was to be very much a "bridge" culturally between the classic Trek and where we are.

    Thus "films"...a common place entertainment for us...shows up as kind of a "nostalgic" entertainment in downtime.

    Voyager and DS9 had it similarly...and even had crew "in" the films...a very "indulgent" adventure, rather then a visit to classic literature or "vintage" noir.

    This is likely very much Roddenberry influence...humans pursuing "worthwhile" ends at all times...whereas the shows have embraced more "it's fun to goof off a little...even in the future."

    About the most indulgent thing characters did in classic trek was sleep with anything humanoid.

    A bizarre dichotomy...we are incredibly disciplined in our lives...except in the pants.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [face_laugh]
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070326023632/memoryalpha/en/images/2/26/Worf-de-evolved.jpg]
    TNG 719: Genesis
    -Premise: Enterprise crew members de-evolve into prehistoric creatures after a medical treatment by Dr. Crusher goes wrong.

    -T2Q Comments: Barclay! Horray!

    Did the nurse ever strike anyone else as being too happy all the time? She's so smiley.

    Tactical and weapon system upgrades- wonder if these ever factor in elsewhere. Couple new shots here (or, at least ones that haven't been used much at all to my recollection)- close up of the torpedos firing and a later shot of the upper hull as the shuttle departs.

    I'm remembering some of these scenes but strangely enough the plot isn't coming to mind. Troi on bridge watch for first time since promotion. The Enterprise really went to hell in only 2 days time.

    The Deanna-Frog...I'm not sure what to make of it- it's kinda creepy, really, the way she's acting, but also kinda silly...I can't tell which way the pendulum ultimately swings on this one.

    Interesting that the conversation initially centers around the development of life on Earth, given certain scenes in All Good Things.

    I do remember Spider-Barclay. "He transformed into a spider and now he has a disease named after him." I think that line sums up the episode pretty damn well! [face_laugh]

    Despite Barclay's presence, I'm gonna go ahead and say this is not essential- I kinda liked it, but I also tend to hate these kinds of stories (the unrealistic timeframe used to mutate and restore people (and the lack of residual effects) being one of many reasons), even the early Stargate episode with a similar premise.

    We'll go with Average, though there is a nostalgic factor here and the thought of a proto-Klingon is scary. A rare "with Barclay" misfire.

    Trivia: Only episode directed by Gates McFadden and the first episode to be directed by a female cast member (though a 1994 earthquake caused delays that prevented her from making her own cut of the episode. Final appearance of Barclay on TNG. Amusing little coincidence back in season 6's Realm of Fear, where Barclay mentioned that he "never minded spiders".



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    TNG 720: Journey's End
    -Premise: While visiting the Enterprise, Wesley Crusher protests the removal of Native Americans from a planet ceded to the Cardassians.

    -T2Q Comments: Wesley returns...horray?

    That tea pot just seems inefficient- "I know, we'll make a tea pot that can hold less liquid but takes up an equal amount of space to one that holds more!". Interesting that the Cardassian border is only now being finalized years after we are first introduced to them, which in itself was years after the war itself happened.

    A Native American relocation parallel/story- i know we're only 8 minutes into this episode, but I'm gonna go ahead and say this episode will be 50 billion times more entertaining and less embarrassing than Insurrection- and half of those eight minutes were about WESLEY.

    Jack Crusher cameos again. Am I the only one wondering why they'd need to set up anything to beam these people off the planet? There's no distortions or energy fields that normally interrupt transport locks- hell didn't Worf's brother do exactly that with people in a cave?

    The Traveler returns and Wesley departs- though it kinda feels like the Traveler stuff was introduced too late into the story to feel organic.

    Gul Evek returns here- his musing on the loss of 2 of 3 sons in the Cardassian/Federation war being a motivation for him to avoid starting another one here is almost tragic given the Dominion War's approach. Stopped one war only for another o take it's place and still threaten the life of his son and all (especially one more likely to do so t
  25. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Love Genesis...it's unrealistic, but a fun one...very much a similar vibe to the "Enterprise frozen in time" episode.

    Anytime you get Picard being chased around the ship by an angry Proto-Worf...you gotta stand up and cheer!

    ----

    I have not watched "Journey's End" since it's debut and I never will...the absolute worst "Wesley Returns" episode, even though it is the royal kiss-off piece.

    The Native American theme and the relocation stuff and the "Maquis"...it's all terribly reminiscent of the same story with Ro and the Bajorans...apparently we're suppose to be more impacted because this time it's humans...and Native Americans to boot? The overt preachiness of this episode made it unpalatable. And tying WESLEY's destiny into it was a mockery of that message to BOOT! The Traveler...one of the less interesting characters of the franchise, and basically a "nice mannered Q", barely registers other than "Traveler...means Wesley is in this episode...change it, change it, change it!"

    The Maquis go on to be far better served then their "origins" offer.

    This is one of the 5 worst episodes of the series.