Epic book for Star Wars RPG

I recently got the Epic Level Handbook for Dungeons and Dragons. In the books are the rules for advancing a character past level 20. I like to think that the Star Wars RPG universe should have a similar book. Why? Think about Yoda and Odan-Urr. They've lived for at least nine hundred and a thousand years, respectively. It might be me, but somehow I think that a character who've lived that long has probably earned more than twenty levels in terms of RPG.

 

I have heard rumors that something of this nature is being planned. I have mixed feelings about the idea though. While I can see the appeal of such a thing in game terms, it seems a bit out of place in the Star Wars universe. Characters like Odan-Urr and Yoda did live a very long time and were quite powerful, but they were never that far beyond everyone else. Unlike D&D, there are no gods in Star Wars that meddle in the affairs of mortals, and it is extremely uncommon for a character to live as long as those cited above. They are true anomalies and not something that any hero can aspire to and so the concept of epic level characters does not seem to fit as well as it does in most other games.

 

Maybe WotC should just have an article that deals with beyond 20th level NPCs and gives revised stats for Yoda and Odan-urr. It should discourage players from trying to go epic level.

 

I'd like to see an epic level sourcebook for SW.

Sure Yoda and the Emperor didn't make it, but Yoda seemed to imply that even he had no yet reached the limits of his potential:

Paraphrased from ESB

Luke: Master Yoda, you can't die!

Yoda: Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong.

It would seem unlikely in all the history of the GFFA that no one went past level 20

 

I agree with fingorfin, yoda and odan-urr were pretty much once offs, and theres not really a good chance that there would be someone in the star wars universe that could surpass them, even if this is roleplaying, you shouldn't be GODS, therefore, surpassing level 20 isnt really necessary for any rpg PC, and really, isnt that lifelike (even though star wars is fiction). Yeah, i just like to point that out.

Err, yeah

 

Surpassing level 20 doesn't make you a god and yes this is fiction. I'd like to see an epic book just because it'd be very cool to have the ability and a sourcebook to back me up if I wanted to go past level 20 in a campaign for my players.

 

Oops, sorry about that last message, bit of a stuff up.... anyway,

Ok, so maybe being (or surpassing) level 20 may not make you a GOD, you could still be able to slice through a pretty large amount of soldiers with ease, which of course is not all that rpg'ing is all about, but still, if you get too strong it would be too easy to play the game....unless the GM makes enemies that are REALLY tough, which in itself isnt that realistic, because it'd be rare enough for a PC to get that strong, then you find yourself confronted by enemies of similar strength?

 

If I EVER ran an epic-level Star Wars RPG, it wouldn't be much different from the ones I run now. As low-level characters, my players are facing some stiff NPC's and difficult missions. As they get better and "stronger", those NPC's and other difficulties get better and "stronger". If the PC's go epic-level, so will some of my NPC's. The only real difference would be the number of "extras" that bite the dust, meaning the cannon fodder Stormtroopers, bounty hunters and thugs that get ghacked.


Amused,
Maj-Odo Taji

 

The Emperor is 19th level, so Yoda is the only known 20th level character. After careful consideration, I don't think they should make an epic level handbook. It just doesn't belong in the Star Wars universe.

 

I thought Palpatine was 20th level in the Revised Rulebook. May be mistaken, but I am pretty sure on this one. At work without book right now, of course.


Regards,
Maj-Odo Taji

 

Yeah, he is 20th level.
Noble 4/Dark Side Devotee 6/Sith Lord 10
4+6+10=20

 

The Light Side and the Dark SIde "leaders" each at 20th level sits very well with me.


Regards,
Maj-Odo Taji

 

Epic book for Star Wars!? Ha ha ha that's a good one!

Ok ok, how about you make a couple of the Star Destroyers sentient and then you find a +9 lightsaber? Or maybe your characters find a secret portal to the Forgotten Realms and El becomes an honorary Jedi Master?

Sorry for the rant but the level system from Wizards never felt right for the Star Wars Universe for me. I'll use the new material for inspiration and history updates, but make mine D6!

 

Remember the SW book says that Yoda and the Emperor were 20th level because it was rather pointless to go beyond it, I think it was pretty clear they went beyond that

Odd Bnar yes and Master Thon possibly.

Also they could have a section on Super advanced lost civilizations, Otherpsace, and stuff like that

 

I do not think that they were beyond 20th level. Reaching that level of skill is extremely rare in the Star Wars universe. Even the greatest Jedi in the ancient times did not get that high. According to the POTJ book, Odan-Urr was level 16, Arca Jeth was level 15, Thon reached level 13, and Vodo-siosk Baas was level 14. These were some of the most powerful and revered Jedi ever, so it seems completely ridiculous to ever expect player characters or even GM villains to go beyond level 20.

Also they could have a section on Super advanced lost civilizations, Otherpsace, and stuff like that.
That idea works fine for a game like D&D or RIFTS, but does not really fit into the type of story that Star Wars has always been, but then neither does the Vong.

 

I find that alot of people, and this is no insult of any kind, get hung up on levels. While level of course denotes increased skills and feats, making things easier and even harder in some instances, levels are not what is important.

Role-playing is. The scene, and how one interacts with it is why I play this game. Not to rack up 'kewl powerz' and deific-like stats. Yes, everyone wants to see their character progress, but I've gotten, seen, and will continue to experience more fun and joy in this game based off of roleplaying, rather than ROLLplaying.

Not to cop out, but why even worry about the pros and cons to an epic-level book when you view a game from this perspective?


He who prefers words and gestures over tossing a few dice,
Maj-Odo Taji

 

Well personally speaking let's take note that in Dark Empire the Emperor abilties were far beyond the level of standard Jedi Masters and he was unimaginably powerful. He even uses the 10th level Dark Lord's abilties, A Force storm to actually move luke without harming him, etc

I personally disagree with some of the depictions also of characters in Power of the Jedi's sourcebook. Master Thon in WeG Tales of the Jedi was portrayed to be potentially unimaginably powerful. Odan Urr's age might have also granted him higher ranks.

However one thing to remember though about this is that Arka Jeth and others are 'legendary' only because we know them from their time battling the Sith and their part in fighting Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun's dark side uprising.

Even Odan Urr once the Sith were defeated retreated into retirement for 400 years.

In any case there's 25,000 years of history for Star Wars to cover and while it's difficult to imagine threats vast enough in the past to cover there's always matters of interest I think that can be.

Ancient Civilizations we have had in WeG and EU The Sharu, the Aing-Ti monks, the Creators of the Corellian System, the Gree and many more.

Other dimensions we've had Otherspace, Waru, and to a certain extent the Vong being extra-galactic qualifies as a threat from "beyond". The Unknown regions might hold some vastly overpowered horror as well or some ancient evil locked away for a thousand thousand years.

I admit that there's the potential to be silly. Take Babylon Five, after the Shadows there was really nothing that could compare to the victory there but the franchise kept wanting to be going and in this case they had to create the Hand and saving Earth from a plague everyone knew it would survive.

There's also the fact that in Star Wars Orcs arn't necessarily bad at 20th level.

Sure you may be a 16th level Guardian, 4th level Soldier but face to face if a couple of walkers and starfighters come blasting at you and a troop of Stormies...your dead.

Still there's all kind of neat information here, especially if you want to play one of the 'ancient races' like Yodas or potential for centuries long chronicles

Perhaps even the psychology of peace

 

Well, good/bad news. There is a chance of some epic roleplaying rules in the upcoming WotC books (Hero's Guide and Galactic CS). Why? "Information is presented on elements of an epic campaign." Will this refer to true epic campaign (I mean, JD Wiker's article at wizards.com) or to epic levels? Who knows! Anyway, I said good/bad news because I'm ambivalent to epic playing.

It's good because you can keep on playing ad infinitum!

It's bad because D&D Epic Levels Handbook was, uhm, less than good (I think of it as The Quintaessential Munchkin).

Time will say what the SW epic rules are like, if they're even published (I suppose it refers to Wiker's article), but I think we would be going to get the D&D epic rules summarized and slightly modified.

 

If you use the rules to your advantage when GMing Epic Dungeon and do master the contents of the book, your PCs had better be prepared not to show their power too much. They're in for a very nasty surprise when even powerful beings notice their potential new challengers, beings with a very long experience and with manipulative tricks beyond the reach of your PCs imagination. Once the elusive NPC who foils their plans at every possible occasion actually shows up and you're ready for the encounter, your PCs won't really stand a chance if you did it right, and they're in for one of the most humiliating lessons an epic level character can endure.

 

I think that only NPCs should be allowed to be over 20th level, and that the best hope for these 'Epic' level rules will be in the Gamemaster's Guide to the Galaxy out next year.

 

I don't think they should give rules on epic characters. I think it should be up to the GM what to do if someone reaches 20th level and doesn't want to stop. This is where the GM can streach his imagination past the limits of the rulebook and create some challenges for an epic character to deal with. The Vong have shown that there is a way to travel in and out of the galaxy, so if the GM wants to challenge a post 20 level character, there could be invading super soldiers, or an Outbound Flight Project that allows the player to be completely out of his StarWars element. There's alot a GM can do, and for WotC to make rules about what happens after will stifle the GM's creativity. It's then that the GM goes from having partial control to full control, as long as there is no book telling him what he should and shouldn't do.

 

Excerpt from The Game Mechanics chat transcript available here.

ElfWord When will there be an Epic Level Handbook for SWRPG? Will there ever be? Not 2003 I guess, I didn't see anything about one in any of the interviews.
JD Wiker Elf: Nope.
JD Wiker Well, not the last I heard.
JD Wiker So now that I'm gone, they might change their minds.
JD Wiker Star Wars shouldn't have godlike characters.
JD Wiker Godlike characters make the bravery of the heroes--the movie characters--seem trivial.

I fully agree with him.

Oh and, BTW, if you haven't, pay a visit to TGM homepage. Their plans sound soooo good...