EpIII SA: Linking and Refreshing

Discussion in 'Communications' started by QueenDorme, Sep 10, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Rystall02 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2002
    question: What ARE the mods saying in private about wstraka5, anyway?

    inquiring minds want to know!


  2. yodaboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2001
    star 5
    oh, and regardless of who is doing it, it still stands that it benefits mods and the proof is in the testimonies we have seen so far. case closed.
  3. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    What ARE the mods saying in private about wstraka5, anyway?


    whats his face was just trying to start trouble.
  4. Aragorn327 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    The allowing of non-moderator members linking in threads they deem redundant, is.

    And yet the mods have already stated that the linking is a big help in 3SA. They have answered the question on *Official* threads also. (I believe the general policy is to re-start a thread when it gets to around 5,000 posts now, am I correct?) Anyway, all this thread seems to be doing is stuck on the wstraka5 issue (in which people resort to flamming him with socks), which should be concluded in PM. This thread seems to have generally run its course in my opinion...... *shrugs*
  5. Kerr_Plunk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 6
  6. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    Actually it's quite helpful. But it all comes down to judgement, really. Linking someone from the "Mace was cool!" thread to the "Official Mace Windu" thread is helpful; but linking them from the "Why was Dooku's saber curved?" thread to the "Official Sith" thread isn't.

    Just use common sense, link when you see a good opportunity, don't do it too much, and... yeah, that's about it really.

    EDIT: Btw, wstraka's got his link skills pretty damn fine-tuned. He's the link mastar. :cool:

  7. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "People aren't reading my original point I raised. They simply see a name and make out I am attacking that person. In no way was wstraka5 under attack."

    Your point was, and I'm quoting you, "Can we please stop general members like wstraka5 linking threads to other threads they deem redundant?" Every mod who has posted in this thread, that being green_cross_code, Gandolf the Grey, Lobot_Omy, Grilled-Sarlacc, and GriffZ have all said that general members posting links is a huge help. So your original point is being answered.

    Amazing.
  8. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    AmazingB, my original point was:

    Can we please stop general members like wstraka5 linking threads to other threads they deem redundant?

    Since they are not Moderators nor Admins, you cannot present to them any case as to why you opened the thread in the first place; by then, the thread becomes spammed with links thus throwing decent discussion off track.


    Taking only the first line is removing the rest of the argument which clearly shows no malice towards him.


    EDIT: GriffZ

    "Btw, wstraka's got his link skills pretty damn fine-tuned. He's the link mastar."

    Not yet. Much to learn, this young padawan has.
  9. obi_wan_kanathan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 4
    I don't see what the big problem about people posting links in redundant threads is. I used to go to the PSA forum before AOTC and they were a big help. Yes, sometimes the person posting a link is wrong, but it won't hurt the thread.
    In the example you gave us, his link took up one post, and the thread didn't change. He was even kind enough to apoligize for his mistake and contributed to the thread.

    Can you give me any other reason why these links hurt the threads? Because as far as I can tell, they can only help.

    BTW, if someone posts links in redundant posts, and they are almost always wrong, try talking to them privately about it, and if that doesn't work, PM a mod.
  10. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I haven't posted yet because I've been logged off since 2:30 pm board time yesterday. ;) One of the best ideas I've seen in here is to periodically lock an official thread and restart it. That's definitely worth considering.

    Here's my opinion in regards to wstraka5. I think he is a huge help. What makes him able to respond with a link so quickly is a trick I used to do. It's having the threads of the forum in something like a Word file where the text is availble, written in html, and all you have to do is copy and paste it. ;)

    When a redundant thread is on page one, I see them very easily. They stick out like a sore thumb. Like green_cross_code said, things are stagnant in the 3SA. So identifying redundant threads are easy. What I need help with is identifying individual posts within threads that are a problem. I cannot read through every post in every thread. That's the biggest help to me.

    What wstraka5 does is a big help. When I see a redundant thread, he typically has already left the link. All I have to do is tell people to refer to the link below instead of searching for it myself. But I also told him to not make the same mistake I made when I first started moderating. And that is to deem every thread as redundant.

    In some way, all threads are redundant. But there's a fine line between locking a thread for being redundant and being overbearing. After awhile I learned the difference. There are some redundant threads that are truly in need of a lock. But there are many that would best be served by letting them naturally sink on their own due to posting inactivity. But I'll take the help of someone like wstraka5 any day. Members like him help the functioning of the boards.
  11. yodaboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2001
    star 5
    "Not yet. Much to learn, this young padawan has."

    I might agree with you except there are 6 moderators in this thread alone, and i'm sure the rest would agree with these that it is helpful. Plus you have a host of old regular members here telling you it's helpful. IT IS HELPFUL. I understand you're relativly new here and all, but who are you to say the moderators don't know whats best for them or the forums?
  12. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    From now on, let's shift this away from wstraka5. He's doing a good thing and he is not on trial here. He should not have to defend himself. There are plenty of people who help.

    Let's keep this thread focused on ways of improving the 3SA. In my opinion, things are running quite well in there. Most of this stems from lack of information about Episode 3.
  13. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "Taking only the first line is removing the rest of the argument which clearly shows no malice towards him."

    Well, then, you missed my point entirely. You complained that your initial point was going unanswered and I pointed out that it had been answered several times over.

    Amazing.
  14. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    I think wstraka5 and anyone else who links official or so threads to Redundant threads is a huge help.

    They are all a big help, and stop alot of redundancy. I couldn't imagine 3SA without it :eek:

    Alot of the times it will help refer to the newer members, and alot of times people know when their off topic, but do it anyway just to be 'cool.'

    And why should Official Threads be closed after a couple months? They would just be re-posted with newer ideas then, and then it would be even more chaotic.

    All in all, he helps out and it is good for the forum. If you don't like being redirected, either look in the guide for a thread like it, or if you don't want to, check and see if a Moderator of 3SA, or wstraka5 is on, or even me. I am almost sure they would send you a link ;)
  15. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    And why should Official Threads be closed after a couple months? They would just be re-posted with newer ideas then, and then it would be even more chaotic.

    Official threads never existed until the end of the AotC spoiler-run. Before then, threads only survived if they lasted the first ten pages. If the thread was truely dead, it would sink.

    However, with the linking to the Official threads, the thread doesn't have the chance to die off naturally. It just gets rehashed and rehashed and becomes stale.

    I think Official threads are great, but they also can be a trap for old discussion. They also have the oddity of being turned into mini-community threads.

    ~~~~

    I would also, again, like to say that wstraka5 is not under attack here. If the Mods prefer they way it works, fine. My point has been answered and debated. Lets move onto the second point of interest. :)
  16. darth daedelus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    star 1
    I've posted links before when a thread is redundant. There has been a culture of self-regulation on the boards since I joined, although it has evolved from terse shouts of 'redundant' to polite links. It is not only useful, it is necessary to the way the boards operate. In fact, I would say that such behaviour is indispensible. Mods are not on-hand every minute of the day. Sometimes hours can go by before a redundant thread is locked. This means that a discussion can start to get off the ground, which is a wasted effort on the part of those contributing to the discussion if the thread is then locked. This will be a particular problem when real news starts to emerge about Ep3, because each news item on TFN always gets about 3 threads, fragmenting discussion. It is much better when someone posts a link, the original poster locks the thread, and everyone moves to one thread. In short, we don't need mods to wipe our bottoms for us, there are things we are quite capabale of doing ourselves.

    On official threads, good point.
  17. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    The official threads idea came out of Mod Squad in preparation for the release of AOTC. It was our plan of what to do ahead of time to decrease redundancy and foster discussion. It's probably not as necessary anymore in the AOTC forum. But we didn't want the AOTC forum to degenerate into a problematic area like TPM's forum did in its earliest stages after that film's release. The same holds true with the 3SA. It's just the opposite of the AOTC forum. With so little in the way of spoilers, redundancy could be a problem. The official threads help control this.
  18. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    The official threads help control this.

    Amen to that Sapient. Exactly what I am thinking. They help control all of that.

    I wasn't hear before the time of AOTC, but as you said they didn't last unless they got to 10 pages. Was it more or less organized with the new 'official' threads?
  19. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    Was it more or less organized with the new 'official' threads?

    It was more organised but the discussions of ideas died in the butt. Official threads were great as we got closer to the release of AotC as there was a huge influx of new members who were simply lost. However, as with any discussion between the release and the next release, member numbers drop off dramatically.

    Some of the best threads in the pre-AotC release peroid came from general discussion threads that actually evolved from 'old topics'. I can remember Ternian and Jedi Chikara discussing the whole clone/Sido-Dyas/Sidious plot this way or Sith Interceptor and the Kit Fisto Fiasco.

    Perhaps we could look at labelling Official Threads only for information that is Officially released?

    So any threads until then would fall into the '10-page rule' (if it doesn't survive the 10 pages [first 100 threads], a new thread can be started). We should also give threads a two day space period in which we can let the thread breathe. If it garners good discussion, leave it open. If it dies, it sinks anyway. That way, we could keep discussion and ideas fresh. Of course, any trolling or multiple postings by new members should be dealt with immediately as usual.

    Maybe we could begin by labeling COMMON topics as Ultimate Threads?

    For example; The Ultimate "Tarkin In Episode II" Thread.

    Once information has been officially released;

    The Offical Tarkin Thread.

    This would give the impression to members that the ULTIMATE thread is going to contain the most amount of discussion without dictating the idea that it is the one and only and final thread they MUST post in.

    It also means that it can be linked to in a friendly manner...

    "Hey, also check out the Ultimate Tarkin Thread for other discussion."

    Cross-thread posting was also common in the prerelease of AotC days.
  20. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I don't know the guy but I went back and looked at his posts, most of which, in a true wannabe mod audition style, seems to do what mods are here to do. It's great to show people where to go if you are the first to respond and I do it too as should all members. Taking it to the level of a way of forum life is annoying.

    The guy wants to be a mod; it's obvious. From my experience though, in order ot be a mod, surely you must ahve something to say as a member first.
  21. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
    QueenDorme, I like your ideas. And I also appreciate your willingness to argue these ideas rationally.

    I especially like the "Ultimate Thread" idea. I will save that for the future. But for now, the Official Threads are answering the mail for the 3SA and serving their purpose just fine.

    Do we have too many? I will say "yes". Some can be gotten rid of because they were created a long time ago and have since been surpassed by newer, more informed dicussion. Some are necessary to keep around. Especially the "He's a clone" theories.

    I will work this issue with my colleagues to trim the extraneous and dead weight.

    And you might be interested in knowing that the original Padmé's Fate thread was recently closed after reaching over 1500 posts (not reasonable to read each post at that size) and Padmé's Fate, version 2.0 was created. No other Official Thread even comes close to that size, other than the Episode III Title Speculation thread. In the future, once Official Threads become too cumbersome, they will be re-cycled into newer threads - which will also be Official. Redundancy is the devil. ;)
  22. Valiowk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 6
    Frankly, I see no problem in this matter. I remember good old days 2 years ago, before the shift to Snowboards when we were still in UBB, and Senator DA would post links to other related threads for new members. He did it all the time, with other members (anyone here remember the Redundancy Police?), and nobody complained about it - at times, we even appreciated the fact that they gave the links.

    I understand that you may feel that adding these links:
    1) Indicates that the poster feels your thread is redundant.

    I've learnt from experience that even though there's an old 3SA rule which says that if you can't find a thread on a particular topic within the top 10 pages, you're allowed to have a new one. However, it's always good to refer to previous arguments raised because you may be simply repeating a point that many other members have seen before. I'm not saying that your thread would be redundant - it isn't, but it's good to have a reference, so that you may further boost your argument.

    2) May derail the flow of that thread if members go to the other thread to discuss instead.

    I find that members tend not to drag up threads if they are really old, and don't want to go back to all the arguments in there, rather preferring to start in the new thread where you can be more sure of response (i.e. it's more likely to get a response from members who reply in the new thread than in the old thread). Thus I don't see how this would affect it.

    As the mods have mentioned, if the new thread gets better than the old thread, they let it flourish. This is after all a Star Wars message board where we hope to bring out the best points about SW, so the focus should be on bringing out good arguments. One of the key ways to do that definitely has to be from reference to what others have previously mentioned.

    EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see that QueenDorme decided to close the discussion on the first topic at first. Hopefully you will not mind one more opinion. My apologies.
  23. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    I will save that for the future.

    I hope I haven't handed over the plans for an Ultimate Weapon. ;)

    But for now, the Official Threads are answering the mail for the 3SA and serving their purpose just fine.

    There would be no need to close the ones already serving their intended purpose.

    And you might be interested in knowing that the original Padmé's Fate thread was recently closed after reaching over 1500 posts...

    Perhaps when it is time to restart old 'Official' threads this may become the time to change threads from "Official" to "Ultimate." As we start getting "Official" information, we can start reintroducing "Official" titles (by mod-only) again.
  24. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I agree with Dorme on this, definetely.

    There are certain great stuff on the EIII boards like Grilled-Sarlacc's Official EIII Facts thread which works as a great resource as a reference thread. However, we have to realise that this film is three years away. I can see the Qui Gon thread going into 20,000 pages once that fateful day in 2005 arrives.

    I think some leniency is needed. Redundancy of course should not be tolerated as it is the scourge of our times though not every thread witth Qui Gon in the subject line should be locked either.

    It should be up to the mods there and both Sapient and Sarlacc have more than enough common sense to deem a thread redundant or not.

    Not that I care too much mind you as I shall be spoiler free till, err, the good stuff starts arriving.

    I am tired.

  25. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    I especially like the "Ultimate Thread" idea. I will save that for the future. But for now, the Official Threads are answering the mail for the 3SA and serving their purpose just fine.

    I completely agree with this idea. Right now Official Threads are used, but maybe afterwords or later on we can change them to Ultimate or something like that threads.

    Really, it should be discussed with the Mod Squad.
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