"Episode 1-6 will make sense after Episode 3?"

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Paul_78, Apr 23, 2005.

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  1. Darth_Paul_78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Thank you, Rick McCallum... but I beg to differ.

    This something that I've thought about since TPM came out.

    Watch Episode 4 (oh, sod it - STAR WARS!) again, and some things don't add up. In particular, Obi Wan meeting Luke...

    1) C3PO and R2 don't remember Obi Wan. Ok, so R2 says he's the property of Obi Wan, but the memory-erasing thing sounds a bit fishy.

    2) "Strange, I don't recall owning any droids...". Even wise old Obi Wan can't remember them!

    3)"I haven't gone by the name Obi Wan since before you were born..." - so he 'becomes' Ben in Ep 3?

    Then in 'Episode 5'....

    How come Vader doesn't cry out "Threepio! What are YOU doing here? What are you up to these days? Fancy a cuppa? We can mull over old times..." during the scene in 'Empire' when Han gest frozen in carbonite? After all, HE made him, didn't he?

    And finally, in Episode 6...

    This is a minor point, but on the new DVD version of Jedi, we see a ghostly Hayden C at the end with Yoda and Obi Wan, which makes no sense whatsoever. If Jedis can choose what they look like in death, why doesn't Obi Wan come back as Ewan McGregor? Sebastian Shaw would be soooo pissed if he was still alive!

    I'm hoping Revenge of the Sith addresses some of this, but I get the impression Lucas has been making this all up as he goes along!

  2. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    That's a very uneducated guess. The Prequels are very different from the Original Trilogy, however, there are facts that prove that Lucas isn't just "making this up as he goes along".
  3. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    I think that ROTS will tie up all of your loose ends, aside from the Vader-3P0 relationship.

    After Anakin becomes Vader, I doubt that he really has any concern over a protocol droid, even one he built.
  4. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    True, to an extent. Revenge of the Sith is going to explain some thing that fans have been wanting to know since as early as when the Original Trilogy was being released, but on the other hand, there are things that will be left floating. Things that we will never know. We don't need to know every little thing obviously.
  5. Darth_Paul_78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    "That's a very uneducated guess. The Prequels are very different from the Original Trilogy, however, there are facts that prove that Lucas isn't just "making this up as he goes along""


    Oh really? I thought he hadn't decided on Vader's identity til AFTER 'Star Wars' came out? And how about the absurdity of the Luke-Leia-Han love triangle after Jedi? Did he know THAT when scripting the first film? I doubt it.

    I'm sure Lucas had a pretty vague idea about the Clone Wars before the first film, and other background stories... but, otherwise, it's probably been fairly loose all along.

    I love the first trilogy, and the second has its moments... but they're certainly less easy to love.


  6. Darth_Paul_78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    ....though there's that bit in Episode 4 on the Death Star where Obi Wan gives a knowing/smug look to Vader, after seeing Luke, that suggests he's thinking something along the lines of:

    "ah ha, there's your son! Boarding a ship with your daughter! And they have the plans to nuke this space station to smithereens! The irony!"

    So maybe Lucas did know after all!

  7. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Darth_Paul_78, I have some questions for YOU:

    C3PO and R2 don't remember Obi Wan. Ok, so R2 says he's the property of Obi Wan, but the memory-erasing thing sounds a bit fishy.

    C3PO gets a memory wipe, but point out the scene where R2 says he doesn't remember Obi-Wan?

    "Strange, I don't recall owning any droids...". Even wise old Obi Wan can't remember them!

    He never met C3PO before and he never owned a droid, but point out the scene where Obi-Wan says he doesn't remember R2?

    I haven't gone by the name Obi Wan since before you were born..." - so he 'becomes' Ben in Ep 3?

    He didn't say when he became Ben, did he?

    How come Vader doesn't cry out "Threepio! What are YOU doing here? What are you up to these days? Fancy a cuppa? We can mull over old times..." during the scene in 'Empire' when Han gest frozen in carbonite? After all, HE made him, didn't he?

    Do you think Vader is a villain or an emotional sob?

    This is a minor point, but on the new DVD version of Jedi, we see a ghostly Hayden C at the end with Yoda and Obi Wan, which makes no sense whatsoever. If Jedis can choose what they look like in death, why doesn't Obi Wan come back as Ewan McGregor? Sebastian Shaw would be soooo pissed if he was still alive!

    Again, point out the scene where the mechanics of being a Force ghost are explained?

  8. chopman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2005
    star 1
    >3)"I haven't gone by the name Obi Wan since before you were born..." - so he 'becomes' Ben in Ep 3?

    It's been like 20 years and he is old and senial. He doesn't remember exactly when his name got changed. Living alone in a cave can do funny things to any man.

    >How come Vader doesn't cry out "Threepio! What are YOU doing here? What are you up to these days? Fancy a cuppa? We can mull over old times..." during the scene in 'Empire' when Han gest frozen in carbonite? After all, HE made him, didn't he?

    You gotta look at Vader and Anakin as two different people. So Vader wouldn't care about one of Anakin's dumb little toys.

    Also it's possible that in ROTS something happens between 3PO and Vader that sours the relationship. Like 3PO might turn out to be the emporer or something, who knows?

    >This is a minor point, but on the new DVD version of Jedi, we see a ghostly Hayden C at the end with Yoda and Obi Wan, which makes no sense whatsoever.

    Like I've said before, Anakin is Vader and Vader is Anakin. Wearing the suit or being all pasty white doesn't make him Anakin. Hayden is what Ani looks like right before he became evil, so since he has now achieved redemption, he would natually go back to the way he was right before going to the dark side. Obi never went dark so there's no need for regression for him.

    That's my best try at answering!
  9. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    I doubt it will make much sense.

    I think the new watchers will be too busy saying LAME!!! THIS SUCKS!q!! AFTER ALL THAT the empire gets beat by teddybear creatures!@!!1 OH supid!! OH lord almighty, isn't this Anakin's story????????? Why are we wasting time on these teddybears and princess leias and han solos. Sucks@@@!1

    :) Nothing much will change unless we're in store for a few more additions.

    EDIT: Oh and that whole 'there is another' thing won't make any sense either.
  10. Darth_Paul_78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Wow, I've touched some nerves here!

    Seriously, though, they were just itsy bitsy continiuity problems I've noticed, and if this was one long novel I was reading, I'd probably feel a bit peeved...

    ...but it's a fantasy movie saga, designed to thrill and delight its audience, not The Bible Revisited. Details schmetails. It's amusing, and makes for funny debates like this.

    I'm really looking forward to Episode 3, regardless of my above 'critique' (more of a commentary on a 'blooper reel', really!)

    But just to quickly respond to some of the above...

    1) Anakin/Vader

    When Luke lifts of Vader's helmet, we see Old Anakin, and in his dying moments, he reveals that his soul as has been redeemed, and the Dark Side has been vanquished.

    The ORIGINAL ending made sense, with the ghosts of Anakin (as Sebastian Shaw), Yoda and Obi Wan reunited, and a smiling Luke, rejoicing with his friends and the Care Bears, looking on.

    But now Luke must be thinking "hey, there's Obi Wan! And Yoda! And... and... ?? Some Jedi guy. Oh well"

    Plus you may notice that they buggered up the timing on Anakin and Obi Wan smiling to each other - Hayden C is looking away just as Alec Guinness is looking towards him. Really! It's only a minor quibble, but it's still pretty funny!

    2) Obi Wan/Ben

    Yeah, he does say "I haven't gone by that name since before you were born..." to Luke, and since I'm going to assume the twins are born in Episode 3 (I'm trying to avoid spoilers)... well, you see my point.



    Anyway, the only purpose behind this discussion was to ask whether it WILL all make sense when viewed as a whole, post-May.

    Either way, the trailers suggest that This Is The One!



  11. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    When you think about it, people who actually have a chance to watch all six could be confused if they saw Shaw. Instead of Anakin, they'd think, what's that really old guy doing there? Is that Anakin?! He needs to loose some weight.

    What they should have done is give Christenson some old makeup.
  12. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    It's nothing personal Paul, it's just that these questions have been asked a 1000 times before.

    Of course there isn't gonna be perfect continuity in the Star Wars saga, but with a little imagination you can come a long way. ;)
  13. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    He looked too old?

    EDIT: And wasn't Jake Lloyd cast because he resembled him? I was under the impression that that's how it was done. And indeed if you look at him now you'd think shaw was reincarnated. I think so anyway.
  14. JONJEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 5
    "I haven't gone by the name Obi Wan since before you were born..." - so he 'becomes' Ben in Ep 3?

    No, in ROTS he goes by the name General Kenobi, never in ANH does Obi say he has gone by the name of Ben before Luke was born, only not by Obi-Wan.

  15. mrfootball Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2005
    star 2
    "1) C3PO and R2 don't rememer Obi Wan. Ok, so R2 says he's the property of Obi Wan, but the memory-erasing thing sounds a bit fishy."
    hey buddy- they have their memory erased.

    "2) "Strange, I don't recall owning any droids...". Even wise old Obi Wan can't remember them!"
    he didn't owned them, did he?

    "How come Vader doesn't cry out "Threepio! What are YOU doing here? What are you up to these days? Fancy a cuppa? We can mull over old times..." during the scene in 'Empire' when Han gest frozen in carbonite? After all, HE made him, didn't he?"
    because there's only one gold protocol droid in the galaxy

    "This is a minor point, but on the new DVD version of Jedi, we see a ghostly Hayden C at the end with Yoda and Obi Wan, which makes no sense whatsoever. If Jedis can choose what they look like in death, why doesn't Obi Wan come back as Ewan McGregor? Sebastian Shaw would be soooo pissed if he was still alive!"
    because we hardly see sebastian. in fact, when i first saw rotj's original ghost, i thought "Wth is that?"

  16. mrfootball Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2005
    star 2
    oh, by the way, i forgot:
    Not appropiate
  17. Sn4tcH Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    Actually, Jake Loyd was cast because he looked like Luke... yeah... I know... he doesn't.
  18. Ophidiophobic75 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    star 1
    ok first off those are all very VERY minor points that don't need to be explained second obi-wan has never had a relationship with either C3PO or R2-D2 he's always out somewhere else when they are around so obi-wan not knowing who they are makes sense third they are just droids they are everywhere if I buy a car then later sell it then happen to see a car that looks just like it 20 years later i'm not going to go oh my god thats my old car! fourth Anakin looks young at the end of Jedi becasue he died when he became Vader in sith, plus it just makes sense if you watched it from phantom menace to jedi and saw some old guy playing anakin's ghost who you have never seen before (unmasked Anakin doesn't count because he has crap load of makeup on and looks like he does at the end of sith)you're gonna go who is that?! there are no plot holes!
  19. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    And wasn't Jake Lloyd cast because he resembled him?

    JL was cast because he resembled Luke, you can literally see Lucas holding Mark Hamills pic side by side with a bunch of young Anakin pics on the Phantom Menace dvd.

    - O_F
  20. Kotzenjunge Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 2
    There might be loads of protocol droids, but I haven't seen any in the brief times we've seen others that aren't Threepio exhibit the same human qualities. He's a unique one and a testament to how awesome Anakin is with building things. He says it himself in AOTC.
  21. JinnGonnQui Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2005
    What do you think of this Faking It: Star Wars article on http://www.dose.ca/starwars ????

    Their also asking people to vote if EPIII is going to Rock or Suck and it's at a 50/50 split right now.
  22. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    1) C3PO and R2 don't remember Obi Wan. Ok, so R2 says he's the property of Obi Wan, but the memory-erasing thing sounds a bit fishy.

    Why would they? C3PO has never met Obi Wan. R2 has maybe run into him a few times. The memory wipe makes perfect sense considering they're trying to erase anything that could be traced to the twins.


    2) "Strange, I don't recall owning any droids...". Even wise old Obi Wan can't remember them!

    Obi Wan has never met Threepio. He runs into R2 on the ship in TPM, where he's far more concerned with everyone's survival, and R2 looks like a thousand other astromech droids in the galaxy. And he never owns him, that's for sure.


    3)"I haven't gone by the name Obi Wan since before you were born..." - so he 'becomes' Ben in Ep 3?

    Why does everything in the SW universe have to be taken so literally? Can't he just be hyperbolic and nostalgic? Anakin says he's been piloting since before he can remember in TPM, but nobody takes that to mean exactly that. Not to mention Obi Wan's tendency to, y'know, LIE to Luke.


    How come Vader doesn't cry out "Threepio! What are YOU doing here? What are you up to these days? Fancy a cuppa? We can mull over old times..." during the scene in 'Empire' when Han gest frozen in carbonite? After all, HE made him, didn't he?

    Threepio is a droid like a thousand other droids in the galaxy. Additionally, he and Vader never meet face to face. He's simply a discombulated voice that probably registers as less than background noise to Vader, who is more focused on his upcoming meeting with the son he never knew he had.



    This is a minor point, but on the new DVD version of Jedi, we see a ghostly Hayden C at the end with Yoda and Obi Wan, which makes no sense whatsoever. If Jedis can choose what they look like in death, why doesn't Obi Wan come back as Ewan McGregor? Sebastian Shaw would be soooo pissed if he was still alive!

    Sebastian Shaw still gets to be the face behind the unmasking. I doubt he'd be that upset. Generally, the idea that goes into it that Hayden Anakin is the last time Anakin was "whole." After that, he was broken man. Obi Wan and Yoda are comfortable with the way they are, so they don't change.

    Additionally, it's much easier to pick up chics in the afterlife if you look younger than your age. ;)
  23. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    Lucas said we would see the originals differently after watching Episode 1, 2, & 3. Everything is falling into place. Episode 2 is THE KEY to everything. As far as Anakin not recgonizing his droid in Episode V, look at the time that has gone by. It's 2005. If I had a Fox Terrier in 1985 and saw him twenty years later after giving him to the animal shelter, I wouldn't know it was him, since there are many who look like him.

    Further more, I'm sick of people always nitpicking and I'm sick of being thinking that they know more than Lucas.
  24. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Makes sense to me right know. What Episode 3 will do for me is add the last part of puzzle. It will let me see ever thing I want to see in the Saga.

    I can see Obi-wan vs Anakin. I can see who Luke and Lieas mother is. What Anakin was like before he became Vader. The Jedi, Clones, and so on.

    For year I had wondered what they were like and in 1999 it being the long road to seeing what came before the OT. It will soon becoming to any end and as much as I can't wait I also will be sad. Any ways that's all I wanted to say.
  25. UberP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2004
    star 1
    Here's an intresting bit...

    if you have been paying attention to the PT, they have been quitley sepertating Obi Wan from R2D2. He does no talking to the droid, and stuff.

    eaither that, or Ani woped him a good one in the final duel.
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