Episode 1 / Episode 3 Reversals

*I posted this on the Episode 3 board, but it got locked *


I just registered to post my thoughts on some stuff i think goes very unnoticed in the prequels, and this is a place where i think it might make some sense
episode 3 has been a much better movie to me since i noticed how many scenes in The Phantom Menace, when compared to Revenge of the Sith scenes, are in opposite context, reverse order, or with characters reversing roles and personality traits. you may have no idea what the hell im talking about, so i'll just list some of the top of my head-

ep1 opening scene - Naboo, ruled by Padme, a very unurbanised planet
ep3 opening scene - Coruscant, "ruled" by sidious, the biggest city in the galaxy

ep 1 opening - SUPREME CHANCELLOR Valorum HAS SENT 2 Jedi SECRETLY to NEGOTIATE. (They travel as ambassadors. They are not piloting. The Trade Federation do not know they are Jedi until a protocal droid points it out).
ep 3 - 2 Jedi lead a DESPERATE MISSION to RESCUE the SUPREME CHANCELLOR. (They pilot Jedi fighters, regognisable to even droids. Everyone on board is expecting them).

Ep1 opening - the jedi encounter no resistance boarding. the docking bay shield is down. They land smoothly. Obi-Wan's FIRST line (directly after they arrive): "I have a bad feeling about this" (spoken calmly).
Ep3 opening - the Jedi take part in a huge battle before reaching the Seperatist ship. Obi-Wan: "Well have you noticed the shield is still up?" (docking bay shield). His LAST line before they crash-land: "Oh, I have a bad feeling about this!" (spoken kinda action-heroish).
*I think it is kind of funny that Obi-Wan was sensing Sidious/the darkside in episode 1 ("something elsewhere... elusive"), when that is more what they had to fear in the Episode 3 setup. And it gives gives more meaning to the banter with Qui-gon: "Don't centre on your anxieties Obi-Wan, keep your focus here, and now, where it belongs." "But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future..." "But not at the expense of the moment". It almost seems like Lucas is saying to enjoy Ep 1 for what it is and don't focus on the doom that follows. lol

Ep1 Non-Sith Seperatist Leader - NUTE GUNRAY. One of QUI-GON's first lines: "These Trade Federation types are cowards. The negotiations will be short."
Ep3 Non-Sith Seperatist Leader - GRIEVOUS. Although much more useful in a fight than Nute Gunray, the Jedi think very similarly about him. MACE WINDU's second line in EP3: "General Grievous will run and hide. He is a coward."
*And notice Qui-Gon's comment comes at a moment where he is NOT EXPECTING A BATTLE, whereas Mace Windu's comment happens when he and Palpatine discuss how Grievous's escape will PROLONG THE WAR.

One of the more well known "switches" i think is the "Maul vs Obi-Wan" duel and ep3's "the duel" climaxes (EP1- Maul's height advantage and taunting /VS/ Ep3- Obi-Wan's height advantage and reasoning). There are several subtle comparisons of Anakin to Maul that happen throughout the prequels. I can't remember them all at the moment but a couple of other examples-

TPM - MAUL is sent by Sidious to Naboo to PROTECT Nute Gunray. (Nute(worried): "A Sith, Here?")
ROTS - VADER is sent to Mustafar by Sidious to KILL Nute Gunray and the other Seperatists. (Nute is glad to hear he is coming. Ironic when u compare it to the Maul scenes, right?)
*Notice in Ep 1, the scene happens shortly before the first DROID seperatist battle, as organised by Nute and Sidious. The Ep3 scene occurs, however, just after they war is over (with CLONE TROOPER help) as "promised" to Gunray by Sidious. Then later, when Vader talks to Sidious via hologram about shutting all droid units down, I now get a flashback to Maul standing in front of the hologram wiht Nute at his side. lol, and people say the prequels aren't deep, tsk tsk. ill post more later.

*******************************************************************
Droid ownership swap-
Ep1 - R2-D2 is part of Padme's ship's crew (the only droid to survive when they leave Naboo). Anakin has bu

 

Date Posted: 6:55am Subject: RE: Episode 1 / Episode 3 reversals - Date Edited: 7:19am (1 edits total) Edited By: i_dont_know
starwarsagent posted:
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Episode 1. Jar jar kicks a battle droid.

Episode 3. Battle droid kicks artoo.


Payback?


SWA.
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lol, shadup.
now you've gone and provoked me to type the "Gungan/Wookie/Ewok triangle" one . i won't blame u if this one seems far-fetched to you, but i think it was intentional. A particularly trippy reversal is land and space situations.

Ep1- The Gungans (on land) are captured. Anakin's FLUKE in space SAVES the Gungans.
Ep3- The Wookies (on land) appear to be winning at first. (*Notice in ep1 the gungans advance out of the water, but in ep3 the droid army advances out of the water.) Anakin's CHOICE to join Sidious happens directly before the Wookies begin to DIE.
Ep6- The Rebels (on land) are captured. The FLUKE of having the Ewoks SAVES the Rebels.

COMPLETELY REVERSED roles, and Anakin in opposite places physically (Ep1-Naboo fighter vs Ep6-Death Star), and as a character (9 yr old Anakin vs Vader after 20+ years in the suit. Not to mention this happens shortly before Vader turns back to Anakin). And while Ep1 involved a SPACE BASED DROID CONTROL, which is taken out by fluke and helps the good guys IN SPACE, Ep6 involves a LAND BASED SHIELD GENERATOR, which is taken out by fluke and helps the good guys ON LAND.
You can't honestly tell me all that is a coincidence?

EDIT: CMON! the gungan and wookie battles even start with the same theme music!

 

This "reversal" example spans 3 movies that don't directly link up, Ep1 - Ep3 - Ep5 :

Episode 3- After Anakin's arguments with the council, and Obi-Wan putting him in his place, this eerily familiar apology scene occurs. Remember, it is the last time they talk before they meet as ENEMIES:
--Anakin: "Master... I've dissapointed you. I haven't been very appreciative of your training. I've been arrogant, and I apologise."
Obi-Wan- "You are strong and wise Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be. But be patient Anakin. It will not be long before the Council makes you a Jedi Master."

Episode 1- Qui-Gon has a disagreement with the council, and Obi-Wan argues about it with him. Later, this apology scene occurs. It is the last time Obi and Qui-Gon have a friendly talk before they face Maul TOGETHER:
--Obi-Wan: "I'm... I'm sorry for my behaviour master. It's not my place to disagree with you about the boy. And I am grateful you think I am ready to take the trials."
Qui-Gon: "You've been a good apprentice Obi-Wan. And you're a much wiser man than I am. I forsee you will becom a Great Jedi Knight."
Notice the contrast between Obi callin Anakin a Greater Jedi than him (ep3), compared to Qui-Gon calling Obi-Wan Wiser than him (ep1).

Episode 5 - The other strong link to both these scenes is Luke and Han's farewell in Empire Strikes Back. This is the last time they speak before Luke faces his trials and Han goes into carbon freezing. Of course, the irony is that the next time Luke meets Han he has passed his trials,become a Jedi and is rescuing Han. In the Ep3 parallel, next time Anakin and Obi meet Anakin has failed his trials and become a Sith, and is fighting Obi-Wan.
Digs?

 

*sorry i mistyped this 2 posts back. It should have read:
And while Ep1 involved a SPACE BASED DROID CONTROL, which is taken out by fluke and helps the good guys ON LAND, Ep6 involves a LAND BASED SHIELD GENERATOR, which is taken out by fluke and helps the good guys IN SPACE.

 

well i_dont_know, thanks for registering to give us this great, insightful post. A lot of what you said, I have never heard before and it is very intruiging. Like you mentioned in your 3rd post, every time I see in Revenge of the Sith the "apology" scene, I can't help but think back to the scene in TPM. Great parallel by Lucas.

It seems like a lot of the parallels and reversals seem to farfetched to be done purposely, but they are too common and too good to not be. Thats what makes these movies so good. The subtle things that the haters are to blind and ignorant to see. Its what makes these movies better than all others.

 

WTH is going on here???

Triple posts with responses to questions not even asked, i'm very confused!

 

sorry about the confusing post order, its a bit randomly arranged because i originally posted it on another forum. There were a few replies in between them before

 

ok, naboo is pretty much a giant suburb, but then most of the planets in the star wars universe are all one thing or another, ice planets, forest planets, desert planets, rainforest planets, lava planets, gas giants(cloud planets)

interesting, of course episode II also began on Coruscant, and to be fair, there could be another all city planet somewhere else in the galaxy, and it could even be on a larger planet, so we don't techinically know Coruscant is the biggest city

 

well, maybe it wasn't technically the biggest city, but in TPM they called it "the capital", and commented that the whole planet was one bnig city.
im not saying it is a solid thing, but just nice use of imagery

 

so? MOST of the planets in the star wars universe aren't the opening scene to the saga. and MOST of these planets also don't happen to be the location of the first dispute leading into the clone wars. so i fail to see your point

This doesn't conflict with my theory. It re-enforces the significance of the relationship between the two planets. I bet you didn't notice some of this stuff :

Episode 1- Padme wants to leave Coruscant, after pleading her case to the senate-

AMIDALA : ..there is nothing more I can do here...Senator, this is your arena.
I feel I must return to mine. I have decided to go back to Naboo. MY PLACE IS WITH MY PEOPLE.

PALPATINE : Go back!! But, Your Majesty, be realistic! They will force you to sign the treaty.

AMIDALA : I will sign no treaty, Senator. MY FATE WILL BE NO DIFFERENT from that of our people.

PALPATINE : Please, Your Majesty, stay here... WHERE IT'S SAFE.

episode 2 (opening scene) - Padme returns to Naboo to talk to the senate (again). They are ambushed, and her BODYGUARD IS KILLED. (the "fate of her people" indeed )
Padme: "I shouldn't have come back"
There is an emphasis on her people when she leaves the planet, then when she comes back, one of her people dies for her! And she mentions her fate will be the same as that of her people. In a way, both her and her bodyguard die as a result of the war (this link is less solid, i admit).

In episode 3, the planet is home to Padme, Anakin, the Jedi Council, and the Sith Lord. The only thing that remains constant between the opening settings of ep1 and ep3 is that each planet is Padme's home. But in ep1, Padme is the ruler, Paplitine one of their senators. In ep3, Palpitine is unofficially the ruler, and Padme is one of the senators.
boo-yah!

 

damnit, i mistyped again, and i've run out of time to edit.
in the post above i obviously meant ep2 - returns to *coruscant.
thankyou

 

If <bump> posts are illegal here, please tell me
<bump>

 

u set up all of that before joining here is it?

 

I had most of it in my head, if that's what you mean.
I joined about a month ago, I think I must have joined on August the first/second and just missed the July tag

 

Well this certainly is a one person topic.

Ever heard of the EDIT button??

 

read the whole thread before you comment please

 

^^^ Exactly

 

I believe the point of this thread is to compare similarities of TPM to ROTS, yes? Just try to avoid the triple posts, i_dont_know.

 

Sigh, the ignorance. Can you people read?
For the third time this was originally posted on another forum. It is missing replies in between because I copied and pasted.

I'm ever so sorry (you might have guessed (but probably not...) this sentence is another reversal)

 

I'd be careful with that tone, i_dont_know.