DFW, TX Episode 1 vs. Episode 2: Whats your opinion?

Episode 1 seemed to move kind of slow and most characters were quite and bland. Episode 2 feels much more like the orginal series, especially with Anakin's attitude and ego. Hayden did a great job I think.

Episode 2 is constantly throwing us around to different scenes with multiple overlaying plots. Episode 1 just never seemed to get going. The end space battle felt small, the gungan/droid battle was ok. Worst of all, Darth Maul had just about no lines whatsoever. The dual of the fates fight gave us 3 speechless fighters. Why? Wouldn't you at least ask Darth Maul who he was? Just seemed a little weird to me. In the end, Darth maul felt more like a simple tough looking thug than a sith lord. Dooku looks a bit friendlier since he isn't all black and red with horns, but he seems scarier because of his "tuff old man" attitude that he portrays by TALKING! LOL

Anyhow, Episode 1 never felt like it got going, just flowed along at an even pace. Episode 2 had characters that weren't afraid of speaking up a little and state their opinions, and in the end was constantly on the move, towards greatness.

 

I can't agree about Darth Maul. He was obviously a being of pure hatred and rage. Talking would have been a waste. Just look at him. He accomplishes more by simple looks and gestures than any words can. I wouldn't change a thing about him.

That being said, I personally feel Episode II is the weakest of the five films. Don't get me wrong, I still love the film and there is so much in it that is wonderful.

However, some things have really been bothering me about it. First and foremost, Natalie Portman. Her behavior, both on and off-screen has been terrible. Most of the scenes where she doesn't look bored out of her mind, she's delivering her lines with obvious spite. "That's exactly what we do!" That stuff takes me out of the film. A senator of that much obvious skill would not respond to simple conversations with her words tinged to start a fight. She's a diplomat, not an unrestrained warrior--that's Anakin's role. And instead, she comes off as arrogant and cold and it seems to come out of the blue as to why she eventually falls for Anakin. The script worked, I just don't think her performance did. Any time she speaks of Star Wars in public is pretty much the explanation why. She feels like she's above it. And that slack-jawed expression she has after she says a line is driving_me_insane. That's the biggest thing that bothers me about the movie.

Another thing--Anakin/Dooku's fight. I understand what they were going for, ie showing the fight with facial expressions. However, if they were going for that approach (which would otherwise be great), they should have left in the entire fight, which had more of Anakin with the two sabers, and had Anakin eventually scoring a glancing blow on Dooku, prompting the Dark Lord to realize that there was truly something strange about this boy and that he had better end the fight quickly. But as it stands, that fight should have been more.

Third--I don't like how the Clone Wars are an afterthought to the film. I personally think that the war should have started at the beginning of the film. Don't just blow up Amidala's ship, have her attacked by some of those new super battle droids. She could have even had two Jedi protectors that actually die saving her life, prompting the council to give her two replacements--Anakin and Obi-Wan. I think the film would have played better if it had been set against the backdrop of war and the effect it has on a civilization that has never known war on that scale.

Finally, the Jedi. In Episode I, you see Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon as Jedi like they were told of at the height of their power. They are graceful, extraordinarily deadly, fast, and quick. In comparison, the Jedi at the end battle of Ep. II look slow, have jerky movements, and little grace. Their movements do not flow seamlessly from one move to the next, like how they should. The sheer number of droids they have to fight against would naturally end up overwhelming most of them, but it happens far too quickly and easily for my tastes. Yes, Yoda says the Jedi are arrogant now, but that shouldn't automatically turn them into people with halved skill in the ten years between episodes. If they intentionally wanted to show them weakening, they needed to explain it more. I personally don't feel this was intentional, just an example of not taking the time to get the movements right because of time constraints.

Now, after reading that, it probably sounds like I absolutely despise the film. That's not the case. I love Episode II. I love Star Wars. I promise that when Episode III comes out, I shall stop complaining.

No, but seriously, it's a great movie, I just think it has problems. However, the good definitely outweighs the bad. Just look at Hayden Christensen's performance. He absolutely floored me. The garage/confession scene is by far the darkest in the saga so far, and his portrayal was so far above my expectations that I still have trouble putting it into words.

The ground battle at the end with the clones and droids was awe-inspirin

 

I love the Republic. I love democracy. Nice ploy to try to get us on your good side there, ol' Emperor. But it's too late now, we're on to you.

I'll make this post short since my last one (about the Tusken slaughter) was so long.... and be cause Brandon just doesn't know when to shut up.

EP2 is much better than EP1.

 

Hell yeah, Mike!!

Summs it up for me!

(and also because Brandon didnt know when to quit)

hahahahaha

 

Quiet, you.

 

Uh no... quiet YOU!

 

Episode 2 is in no way the worst of the series. Did you see the same Episode 2 that I did? If so, how can you say it's the worst. Come on at least put it above Episode 1. ATOC had better characters, better lines, better visuals, and better settings than Phantom Menace hands down. I'm not basing you, just that I can't see how such a great movie can get such a bad review such as yours.

You make some great points, but many of them are very very picky - the way Portman speaks her lines, the specific choreography of the Yoda/Dooku fight, the way the jedi fight (maybe their uncoordinated, ungraceful fighting style was Lucas's symbolic way of showing you the Jedi in the early stages of their eventual downfall. Before any group falls in upon itself, it does show signs of weakness.)

I agree that reading or seeing too much of a movie does make you far more critical of it. Getting too informed makes you conjure up too many expectations, which are never met of course. I didn't see or read hardly anything, so most of it was new to me. So, everything was that much more impressive. Heck, I didn't even know about the Yoda fight (told you I didn't read much, LOL), so that scene blew me away.

Your point about Hayden is one I totally agree with though. He did a great job, played the part of a good guy slowy going bad very well.

Oh, and R2-D2 did a damn good job too. Man can that guy act or what? His facial expressions and the look in his eye just seems so real!

 

Hmmm, even after 3 years, I still don't get the anti-TPM sentiment, but that's another story.

I'm really loving the prequels! Sure, Episode I's like a series of set pieces and meetings, and Episode II's an expansion on that, with deeper exploration of environments and relationships first shown or set up in TPM.

The sheer amount of events in AOTC is almost mind-boggling, especially when you compare all the parallels with the other films and the contrasts and parallels within itself.

Ex: Compare the droids being made on Geonosis (hard, rocky wasteland environment, tunnels hiding in the rock) to the clones being made on Kamino (fluid, ocean city environment, city built over the water)...clones being much more adaptable and superior to droids (be like water, grasshopper )

Compare Obi-Wan, Taun We and Lama Su on the Kamino balcony overlooking the clones to Palpatine, Bail, Mas Amedda, and the Royal Guards on the Coruscant balcony, watching the troops load up and depart to "police" the galaxy...

Compare Obi-Wan's rash window-leap, and the Obi/Ani/Zam chase through the city, and hunt/eventual disarm and death of Zam to the
Obi/Ani/Padme chase of Dooku, losing Padme, fight and eventual disarm of Ani in the Hangar.

Compare Obi's failed attempt to capture Jango for the Jedi Council to interrogate to Obi himself being captured, questioned, and the attempt Dooku makes to bring Obi over to his side, and the sick/twisted revelation of Darth Sidious controlling the Senate.

Whew, all that being said, don't know yet where I rank this one...it definitely has several moments that give me chills every time, moreso than any of the other films so far, and there are several sections of dialogue that I love *watching* (yeah, as a viewer of the acting and delivery, not just the words themselves), notably the Jango/Obi sizing-each-other up bit, the Yoda/Mace "something terrible" bit, the Obi/Dooku interrogation scene, and the Obi/Ani argument in the gunship.

This is an unrepentant, action-filled segment of the story, so I'll be waiting for the dvd for some of the "filler" type cut scenes (Padme's family, etc.) to supplement my enjoyment of the film.

End of Comments, Part One

 

Episode 1 is a great movie, don't get me wrong on that please. However, put it side by side with Episode 2 or the original 3 for that matter and I can't see how anyone doesn't feel that Episode 1 seemed slow. Sure, its part one and needs to do a lot in preparing the story, but it just seemed like it never got moving. Episode 2 had the action that I expected to see in Episode 1 is all I'm saying.

 

I AGREE. Then again, did you ever wonder? LOL

 

No, I can't say that I think Episode II is superior to Episode I. Episode I really worked for me and the climax is the kind of awesome display of true mastery of fighting ability that I had always dreamed about.

Episode II was probably better consistently through, but the high points of Episode I were better to me than the highs of Episode II. I don't think I'm nitpicking too much, either. For me, what makes a movie truly work are the little details. A simple gesture, facial expression, etc. can make or break a scene to me.

I don't think that logic works about the Jedi fighting, either. Lucas was obviously going for 'wow' value with all of them popping up. If he wanted to show them losing their abilities, he did a very poor job of it, because all I saw was a scene that had high hopes, but lost something in the execution.

And hey, I'm not saying Episode II was a bad movie. It's still my fifth favorite movie of all time. It just didn't work for me as well as it worked for everyone else, that's all.

 

Point taken. I will make an effort to view Episode again soon. Maybe I'm the one being too picky here, LOL. You are right though, when you look deeper into a movie, beyond the action and scene at the surface, and into the heart of the actual character, his/her mannerisms and execution of lines and movements, that is when you really discover the true greatness as well as see the flaws of the film. Yet in the end the real question is "did you enjoy the experience?" My answer to all of the SW movies is "HELL YA! Star Wars is not just 6 stories or 6 films. It's a part of our culture and will be (already are!) the classics of our generation. The force is with us all and it is good!

 

Oh, absolutely! Episode II is a great movie and it fits in very well with the Star Wars saga. Despite having some complaints, I never dispute that.

 

I personally think Episode II was very awesome in all, and the same with Episode I, even if it was kinda bland. Anyhow, I like the main characters, but it seems to me that the less "important" characters (like Kit Fisto, for instance) usually gain more popularity faster than their more "important" counterparts. Do any of you agree, or am I alone in that assumption?

 

Ep1 vs Ep2 seemed like an invalid question to me when I walked out of the midnight screening and that hasn't changed.
They're polar opposites, setup and payoff.
In that sense, Ep I is actually the better stand alone movie IMO (gasp).

Anyway, what I'm saying is they are sooo purposefully different and therefore complimentary that I see 'em as the same movie in two parts... even more so than any of the two OT movies.

 

I totally agree with Brandon....but I want to add my moment of free speech, before Bush takes that away!
EP:I this movie paid the price for having to est a series of movies, and having to make us rebelieve in the charactors called Anakin and Obi-Wan Kenobi. I love the whole idea of the PT, and actually seeing everything that Obi-Wan Kenobi talking about.
I loved Ep:I having seeing several times. It took that many times to get the movie. Also, Ep:II would not have been has good if not for TPM. It had to est. the PT galaxy, after the PT and OT galaxies are very different...The Jedi are project well in TPM, has we thought the Jedi would be. Kenobi is great and so is Jinn. But the movie is unlike any in the SW films. It's slow and weighted down by plot elements, and not being "classic" enought for everyone. Now, I like TPM. I like Maul being an attack dog of a person. He suit his his limited role in the film. He is pure dark side....Evil....Evil...Murder. Oops! Wrong thread!

AOTC: First off, bad, bad title. This movie is heavily weighted down by it's demand on the general public. It is a fanboy movie. Through and through. I loved AOTC, and seeing Jango and Kenobi fight. Slave-I, and Anakin going postal. I agree that the Clone Wars seem a background, but if Lucas wanted the Clone Wars to be a focus of the PT, than Ep:I would have been start off with the Clone Wars. I would have to be a different kind of PT. Everything works in TPM and AOTC works and helps est. Ep:III, and the fall of Anakin and the Republic. Lucas was very original in his idea of the LCones, and Boba's original, I say, congs on that one Lucas, you did fine. AOTC is better in dialog, but rushs through the Aunt and Uncle, and other small elements. I did not like the whole Yoda fight, and Dooku. Call for my blood, but that was for the fans, and I was not impressed. Nor, did I like the Death Star was in AOTC. I will save my final word, for 2005, when the DVD of the SW sega comes out and I can see everything together.

 

Hey now, the Yoda fight was the most fun part of the movie. It was purely there for the fanboys, and I really like the fact that it's in there. However, for the sake of the story, I think it would have been better to leave in the entire fight sequences between Anakin/Dooku and Obi-Wan/Dooku, as those fights are more central to the overall plot.

If you think about it, Yoda's fight really has nothing to do with the story, it's just for wow value. Now don't get me wrong, I cheer every time I see it, because it's just so cool, but it really makes no difference to the story. The fight ends unresolved and I highly doubt Yoda will fight again.

 

The inclusion of the Yoda fight makes more sense in the grand design.

"Is the Dark Side stronger?"

"No! No...quicker, easier, more seductive..."

Dooku believes he's stronger than any Jedi, that the Dark Side has given him the power to defeat even Yoda, with whatever means he chooses...but, *surprise* it's really just seduced him. In fact, he has to use an underhanded tactic (dropping the pillar on Obi & Ani) just to be able to escape.

I love how the prequels both parallel and contrast with the OT, and how GL has subverted our expectations, giving us something that's both old and new.

Yoda fighting ? Anakin slaughtering Tusken Raiders ? Boba Fett being a clone, taken from the same source material as the stormtroopers ? C-3PO naked?! These were great surprises, imo!!!

 

Well, i'm guessing i'm alone in my assumption of minor characters getting popular quickly...

 

I can't believe that Lucas got help with this script and it was still so bad. I mean come on, padme jumps on ani at the end of the movie but... uh... why? They spend half the movie telling us about why they can't fall in love then they all of a sudden decided to hold bionic hands.

Also, what was that pansy excuse for a fight scene jango fett gave us? He is supposed to be some awsome bounty hunter and he spends five minutes getting smacked around by obi.

Another thing, why did the jedi council send Anikan of all people to protect padme? "Oh yes lets send that young, arrogant, dangerous padawan who shouldn't have even been trained in the first place on this mission!"

Why was Zam even a character?
** Origional Script before it was re-written with outside help**
Jango - "Here are some bugs for you to use"
Zam - "Thanks for the bugs. It's a good thing you, a bounty hunter, hired me, a bounty hunter, to do absolutely nothing other than put this tube into a flying droid which you could just as easily possess. It gives me some real purpose in life."

And what about that pansy love scene waste of time anyway... halfway through the movie I looked down at my ticket "Star. Wars. Attack. Clones. Did I walk into the wrong theater?"

Final gripe, it was better than episode I. The only good thing about TPM was the lightsaber fight at the end, very well done. Everything else looked like it was written for a saturday morning cartoon show. At least there was 45 minutes of actual goodness in AOTC, too bad we had to sit through an hour and a half to get to it.

 

I wouldn't go as far as condemning it like that, but I still liked Episode I better.

 

OK, then. Sorry, I'd say more, but you guys are ignoring me, so what's the point?

 

plo koon - possibly because the bad script hasn't tinged their characters yet.

I know my review was kind of condemning of EP II but the truth is I liked the movie. Just the gigantic ammount of wasted screen time brought down what ended up to be a good film. I just wish Star Wars could live up to what episode IV and V were. It just seems that Lucas has made every mistake in the book in episodes VI, I, and II, you would think that after a while he would learn all his lessons. He is sitting on a gold mine of potential in the third episode, I just hope he can consolidate his resorces and create a film worthly of what his universe is capable of.

 

Hey, Episode I was brilliant. And Jedi is by far my favorite of the saga simply because of how incredibly the saga is wrapped up.

Something some people don't understand about Star Wars is that it is not supposed to be overwhelmingly dark all of the time. It has a great sense of balance. Darkness all of the time would quickly become tiresome. Sure, it has very dark moments, but it is the balance between light and dark that makes it so great and so accessible to everyone.