EPISODE 3 : A FALL FROM GRACE / (COMPLETED SCREENPLAY)

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction Stories--Classic JC Board (Reply-Only)' started by Chiz, Nov 15, 1998.

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  1. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Sounds good to me. BTW, the Galaxy is vey 3D and not 2D as the map suggests.
    Where on the map is the corporate sector?
  2. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    Actually, a compromise doesn't need to be reached...Or it has in fact, ALREADY BEEN reached. I'll explain.

    Read page 312 in VotF...Tim Zahn writes quite clearly that the "Unknown regions", Thrawn's exile, was a:

    "One way trip PAST the outer rim"

    He further writes:

    "at the edge of the Known Galaxy, where Palpatine's holo had shown only the white stars of the Unknown Regions, a new area had been colored in, a HUGE new area...."

    I assume that the edge Tim Zahn was referring to was in fact.-(insert drumroll here)-The outer rim.

    Not sectioning out the Galaxy as you had implied. I'm sorry Stilgar, but the "mistake" you were referring to was absolutely nothing of the sort. It appears Tim Zahn placed the Unknown Regions EXACTLY where you wanted them...Beyond the outer rim. I'll illustrate further.

    Now, it is common knowlege that Thrawn was in fact exiled to "Wild space"

    Now tell me, where on the map that you conveniently provided with D.L.'s help is Wild space located?...Past the outer rim.

    Now, I hope we're done with this Long-winded arguement on the N.R space issue.

    In terms of the Jedi weakening in comparison to the movies and other books?

    How about the tale Car'das told Karrde and Shada of the full-blown "Force War" between Yoda and the Bpfasshi Dark Jedi?

    That CERTAINLY seems to me to be more profound a display of "Force usage" than your impression of Tim Zahn leading them down a path to "glorified telepaths".
    "Weakened Jedi",..I don't think so.

    Re-writing the Movies? No. Filling in gaps with G.Lucas' go-ahead? Sure, why not. It worked for Steve Perry, and is working to a certain degree for K.W. Jeter. And my God does KJA ever refer back to the movies?....You bet.

    Absolutely NO revised version is in order. What a silly thought. Yeah, I'd sand MONTHS of air-brush work off a Motorcycle tank I painted just because someone thought the Dragon I painted on it was too scary....You got another thing coming if you think I would.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  3. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    Actually, a compromise doesn't need to be reached...Or it has in fact, ALREADY BEEN reached. I'll explain.

    Read page 312 in VotF...Tim Zahn writes quite clearly that the "Unknown regions", Thrawn's exile, was a:

    "One way trip PAST the outer rim"

    He further writes:

    "at the edge of the Known Galaxy, where Palpatine's holo had shown only the white stars of the Unknown Regions, a new area had been colored in, a HUGE new area...."

    I assume that the edge Tim Zahn was referring to was in fact.-(insert drumroll here)-The outer rim.

    Not sectioning out the Galaxy as you had implied. I'm sorry Stilgar, but the "mistake" you were referring to was absolutely nothing of the sort. It appears Tim Zahn placed the Unknown Regions EXACTLY where you wanted them...Beyond the outer rim. I'll illustrate further.

    Now, it is common knowlege that Thrawn was in fact exiled to "Wild space"

    Now tell me, where on the map that you conveniently provided with D.L.'s help is Wild space located?...Past the outer rim.

    Now, I hope we're done with this Long-winded arguement on the N.R space issue.

    In terms of the Jedi weakening in comparison to the movies and other books?

    How about the tale Car'das told Karrde and Shada of the full-blown "Force War" between Yoda and the Bpfasshi Dark Jedi?

    That CERTAINLY seems to me to be more profound a display of "Force usage" than your impression of Tim Zahn leading them down a path to "glorified telepaths".
    "Weakened Jedi",..I don't think so.

    Re-writing the Movies? No. Filling in gaps with G.Lucas' go-ahead? Sure, why not. It worked for Steve Perry, and is working to a certain degree for K.W. Jeter. And my God does KJA ever refer back to the movies?....You bet.

    Absolutely NO revised version is in order. What a silly thought. Yeah, I'd sand MONTHS of air-brush work off a Motorcycle tank I painted just because someone thought the Dragon I painted on it was too scary....You got another thing coming if you think I would.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  4. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    Ahem. I hope you don't ming my interjecting a few thoughts. I don't feel like Zahn lessened the Jedi's powers. I feel like he had Luke put some much needed restraint on his powers. Sure, Luke could do *insert amazing feat here*, but he doesn't HAVE to. Ben could possibly have wiped to floor with Vader, but he didn't HAVE to. There was another way to deal with it. I thought that was a very good point. Just because the US could destroy the USSR, doesn't mean they HAVE to. There's another way. (Wait for them to fall apart by themselves!)
    I'd also like to put in a thought about the stability of the New Republic. I've studied Russian for approaching four years now, and have also studied a lot of its history and culture. To me, it seemed Zahn (and perhaps other authors) are using what's going on in Russia now as a model for how the NR might be. For example, there's a desire not to have any one person have too much power, because they're afraid it'll turn into a dictatorship, which maybe it already has. That debate aside, the NR has things it could do, but doesn't want to do, for fear of looking like a dictatorship. Reasonable, to me. The fear of a dictatorship happening prevents a gov't with many resources from doing something, even though if a different gov't did the same thing, it would simply be perceived as strong leadership and doing what was necessary in the circs.
    As to the NR looking precarious at any point, when it had the ability to overthrow the Empire, Zahn makes the point that they had a common enemy then. They had a uniting goal, one large enough to make them put aside their petty differences. When the goal is gone, the differences re-emerge. In Russia, with the unifying ideals of communism, there are old conflicts flaring up, once controled by the regime and by the indoctrination of communism. (Chechnya, for example.) So in-fighting, in the circs, could be expected.
    HOWEVER, there is a difference I think perhaps authors have not seen. In Russia, there was not a REVOLUTION, REBELLION, or whatever. First, the Party went. Then, they made a new gov't. There wasn't an armed band with leadership and organization and all of that. A few people at the top changed the government, not lots of people from the bottom. In SW, there was an active rebellion with a leadership capable of taking over leadership of the galaxy, rather like in the good ole US of A. However, even here, the leadership changed hands a bit. The shift went from those who said things like, "A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing," to those who understood what it took to do the day-to-day tasks of running a large organization (George Washington, for example). The military leadership became the political leadership. Is this making any sense? My point is that, while there would be some problems similar to those occurring in Russia since it fell, these problems would be fewer and farther between, so I guess I concede the point. I also concede the size point.
    (However, if any of you want to know about the threat looming over the galaxy, lemme tell ya! In my RPG group, the GM, who's only read a few EU novels, has some metallic-based aliens coming in and wiping out everything in their path but our little group. They wiped out most of Coruscant, a lot of the fleet, and lots of stuff like that. I sure hope Zahn doesn't have anything like that in mind!)
    Cheerios,
    Ping
  5. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    Ahem. I hope you don't ming my interjecting a few thoughts. I don't feel like Zahn lessened the Jedi's powers. I feel like he had Luke put some much needed restraint on his powers. Sure, Luke could do *insert amazing feat here*, but he doesn't HAVE to. Ben could possibly have wiped to floor with Vader, but he didn't HAVE to. There was another way to deal with it. I thought that was a very good point. Just because the US could destroy the USSR, doesn't mean they HAVE to. There's another way. (Wait for them to fall apart by themselves!)
    I'd also like to put in a thought about the stability of the New Republic. I've studied Russian for approaching four years now, and have also studied a lot of its history and culture. To me, it seemed Zahn (and perhaps other authors) are using what's going on in Russia now as a model for how the NR might be. For example, there's a desire not to have any one person have too much power, because they're afraid it'll turn into a dictatorship, which maybe it already has. That debate aside, the NR has things it could do, but doesn't want to do, for fear of looking like a dictatorship. Reasonable, to me. The fear of a dictatorship happening prevents a gov't with many resources from doing something, even though if a different gov't did the same thing, it would simply be perceived as strong leadership and doing what was necessary in the circs.
    As to the NR looking precarious at any point, when it had the ability to overthrow the Empire, Zahn makes the point that they had a common enemy then. They had a uniting goal, one large enough to make them put aside their petty differences. When the goal is gone, the differences re-emerge. In Russia, with the unifying ideals of communism, there are old conflicts flaring up, once controled by the regime and by the indoctrination of communism. (Chechnya, for example.) So in-fighting, in the circs, could be expected.
    HOWEVER, there is a difference I think perhaps authors have not seen. In Russia, there was not a REVOLUTION, REBELLION, or whatever. First, the Party went. Then, they made a new gov't. There wasn't an armed band with leadership and organization and all of that. A few people at the top changed the government, not lots of people from the bottom. In SW, there was an active rebellion with a leadership capable of taking over leadership of the galaxy, rather like in the good ole US of A. However, even here, the leadership changed hands a bit. The shift went from those who said things like, "A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing," to those who understood what it took to do the day-to-day tasks of running a large organization (George Washington, for example). The military leadership became the political leadership. Is this making any sense? My point is that, while there would be some problems similar to those occurring in Russia since it fell, these problems would be fewer and farther between, so I guess I concede the point. I also concede the size point.
    (However, if any of you want to know about the threat looming over the galaxy, lemme tell ya! In my RPG group, the GM, who's only read a few EU novels, has some metallic-based aliens coming in and wiping out everything in their path but our little group. They wiped out most of Coruscant, a lot of the fleet, and lots of stuff like that. I sure hope Zahn doesn't have anything like that in mind!)
    Cheerios,
    Ping
  6. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    For that map to show one-fourth of the galaxy, the diameter of the entire galaxy would have to be twice the diameter of the map. Is that realistic? I think it's realistic that there would be widely spread-out stars stretching out to those distances. It's obvious from the map that stars are denser near the core.

    Stilgar mentioned seeing the rebel fleet outside the galaxy. This scene is very confusing, but going solely by the film and ignoring everything else, they could not be outside the galaxy. Whatever the object seen in that scene, it is visibly rotating. This would be impossible if it were the galaxy. I know there are places where it is said to be the galaxy, but the ESB novel says that it is a red star.

    Also, I don't think the New Republic's instability is unrealistic. The situation is completely different from anything on Earth. The Republic is made up of thousands of different alien races that developed in complete seperation from each other. This is much different from Earth, where all people of different races and nationalities are still related to each other. Who knows what would actually happen in a situation like this?
  7. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    For that map to show one-fourth of the galaxy, the diameter of the entire galaxy would have to be twice the diameter of the map. Is that realistic? I think it's realistic that there would be widely spread-out stars stretching out to those distances. It's obvious from the map that stars are denser near the core.

    Stilgar mentioned seeing the rebel fleet outside the galaxy. This scene is very confusing, but going solely by the film and ignoring everything else, they could not be outside the galaxy. Whatever the object seen in that scene, it is visibly rotating. This would be impossible if it were the galaxy. I know there are places where it is said to be the galaxy, but the ESB novel says that it is a red star.

    Also, I don't think the New Republic's instability is unrealistic. The situation is completely different from anything on Earth. The Republic is made up of thousands of different alien races that developed in complete seperation from each other. This is much different from Earth, where all people of different races and nationalities are still related to each other. Who knows what would actually happen in a situation like this?
  8. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    Actually Jeff42, Stilgar is correct on the view of the galaxy by Luke & Leia at the end of ESB...despite what the novelization states (discrepancies happen everywhere). Galaxies do rotate. And the Rebel fleet would have to be WAY out there to get as complete a view of the galaxy as they received. But it is a scene put in there for splendor, not pertenance to the location of the Unknown Regions.

    However, Stilgar is mistaken when he assumes that Tim Zahn located the Unknown Regions inside of the outer rim stars (Dividing the Known galaxy into 1/4 Republic/Empire, 3/4 unknown)....they are not. As I said in my above post, last night, taken directly from VotF, (not an assumption) that the Unknown Regions (The area known as "wild space" that Thrawn was exiled (sent on a mapping expedition) to) Tim Zahn DID in fact, locate out past the outer rim.

    In terms of the area ratio. (1/4 - 3/4)

    Lets use our solar system as a frame of reference we can all relate to.
    Sun= The deep core
    Mercury's orbit= Inner core
    Venus' orbit= Inner rim worlds
    Earth's orbit= Mid-Rim worlds
    Mars' orbit= Outer rim
    Past Mars' orbit= Unknown(wild space)Regions

    With that frame of reference established, I'll let you in on a fact....There is MUCH more area in the space between Jupiter's orbit and Mars' orbit than from Mars' orbit on in. And even with that fact Jupiter's orbit establishes an "end boundary" where the Unknown Regions of Wild space don't have one.

    It is safe to say (and even Stilgar will agree) that the unknown space surrounding the outer rim worlds can EASILY be considered to have three times or more of the amount of area that the Galaxy proper has all unto itself....And even that is assuming the entire Galaxy proper has been explored (or is controlled by the N.R./ Empire), which it has (and does) not.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  9. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    Actually Jeff42, Stilgar is correct on the view of the galaxy by Luke & Leia at the end of ESB...despite what the novelization states (discrepancies happen everywhere). Galaxies do rotate. And the Rebel fleet would have to be WAY out there to get as complete a view of the galaxy as they received. But it is a scene put in there for splendor, not pertenance to the location of the Unknown Regions.

    However, Stilgar is mistaken when he assumes that Tim Zahn located the Unknown Regions inside of the outer rim stars (Dividing the Known galaxy into 1/4 Republic/Empire, 3/4 unknown)....they are not. As I said in my above post, last night, taken directly from VotF, (not an assumption) that the Unknown Regions (The area known as "wild space" that Thrawn was exiled (sent on a mapping expedition) to) Tim Zahn DID in fact, locate out past the outer rim.

    In terms of the area ratio. (1/4 - 3/4)

    Lets use our solar system as a frame of reference we can all relate to.
    Sun= The deep core
    Mercury's orbit= Inner core
    Venus' orbit= Inner rim worlds
    Earth's orbit= Mid-Rim worlds
    Mars' orbit= Outer rim
    Past Mars' orbit= Unknown(wild space)Regions

    With that frame of reference established, I'll let you in on a fact....There is MUCH more area in the space between Jupiter's orbit and Mars' orbit than from Mars' orbit on in. And even with that fact Jupiter's orbit establishes an "end boundary" where the Unknown Regions of Wild space don't have one.

    It is safe to say (and even Stilgar will agree) that the unknown space surrounding the outer rim worlds can EASILY be considered to have three times or more of the amount of area that the Galaxy proper has all unto itself....And even that is assuming the entire Galaxy proper has been explored (or is controlled by the N.R./ Empire), which it has (and does) not.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  10. Tiker Kotnom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2000
    star 1
    I thought "Wild Space" was the space(that was randomly settled in a few areas) on the edge of the Unknown Regions.
  11. Tiker Kotnom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2000
    star 1
    I thought "Wild Space" was the space(that was randomly settled in a few areas) on the edge of the Unknown Regions.
  12. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    I know that galaxies rotate, but the impossibility stems from the fact that it visibly rotates in the time of a few seconds. This would mean that the outer stars would be moving at a speed of light years per second. As I said, it is a confusing scene. I believe the Star Wars technical commentaries site said that this scene is the hardest to explain in the entire trilogy.
  13. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    I know that galaxies rotate, but the impossibility stems from the fact that it visibly rotates in the time of a few seconds. This would mean that the outer stars would be moving at a speed of light years per second. As I said, it is a confusing scene. I believe the Star Wars technical commentaries site said that this scene is the hardest to explain in the entire trilogy.
  14. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    You're right Jeff42. Absolutely right. But a still shot of the Galaxy wouldn't be all that spectacular. It may have been better had G.L. slowed it down and made it glitter or something to show it wasn't a poster Luke and Leia were looking at, but technically, you hit it right on the mark.

    Tiker, actually Wild space does encompass The Unknown Regions and Vice Versa. There isn't a whole lot about Wild Space that is "Known" so it can easily be determined that almost ALL of "Wild Space" is "Unknown" (with the exception of the settlements you mentioned and I believe, the Corporate sector but for some reason I keep thinking that the Corporate sector lies within the outer rim...Darth Ludicrous might know, I don't have Daley's Han Solo Tril. handy ). Anyway, I KNOW I read it somewhere that they were one and the same, or at least one was a part of another (I believe it was Heir to the Empire but I could be mistaken) But still, even without direct reference one can still define "Wild" as untamed (as in animal), and untamed (as in wilderness) as unexplored, and unexplored as "Unknown".

    With Stilgar's Map handy it shows that Stilgar is right, there clearly isn't enough room to hide a chunk as he puts it that is the Unknown regions inside of the Galaxy proper. And "Wild Space" is the only region labeled on the map outside the outer rim. (Where Tim Zahn clearly has Mara Jade stating Thrawn was exiled by the Imperial court (which was a smokescreen) and incidently met the outbound flight BTW. Coincidence? No, not when you're talking Thrawn and Palpatine and six Jedi Masters ripe for the picking....Thrawn had business out there, plain and simple.

    And as I mentioned earlier, The map doesn't take into consideration Darth Ludicrous' query either as to where the Corporate Sector is located. And we all know it exists.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  15. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    You're right Jeff42. Absolutely right. But a still shot of the Galaxy wouldn't be all that spectacular. It may have been better had G.L. slowed it down and made it glitter or something to show it wasn't a poster Luke and Leia were looking at, but technically, you hit it right on the mark.

    Tiker, actually Wild space does encompass The Unknown Regions and Vice Versa. There isn't a whole lot about Wild Space that is "Known" so it can easily be determined that almost ALL of "Wild Space" is "Unknown" (with the exception of the settlements you mentioned and I believe, the Corporate sector but for some reason I keep thinking that the Corporate sector lies within the outer rim...Darth Ludicrous might know, I don't have Daley's Han Solo Tril. handy ). Anyway, I KNOW I read it somewhere that they were one and the same, or at least one was a part of another (I believe it was Heir to the Empire but I could be mistaken) But still, even without direct reference one can still define "Wild" as untamed (as in animal), and untamed (as in wilderness) as unexplored, and unexplored as "Unknown".

    With Stilgar's Map handy it shows that Stilgar is right, there clearly isn't enough room to hide a chunk as he puts it that is the Unknown regions inside of the Galaxy proper. And "Wild Space" is the only region labeled on the map outside the outer rim. (Where Tim Zahn clearly has Mara Jade stating Thrawn was exiled by the Imperial court (which was a smokescreen) and incidently met the outbound flight BTW. Coincidence? No, not when you're talking Thrawn and Palpatine and six Jedi Masters ripe for the picking....Thrawn had business out there, plain and simple.

    And as I mentioned earlier, The map doesn't take into consideration Darth Ludicrous' query either as to where the Corporate Sector is located. And we all know it exists.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  16. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Thrawn Destroyed Outbound long before he was "discovered" by the Imperials. This was originally a discrepancy by Zahn between "Mist Encounter" (Thrawn's imperial origin story) and Zahn's trilogy. He made a believable, if not extraordianry explanation for this discrepancy in VOTF. A good svae, I believe.
    btw, can the ship be moving, giving the galaxy the illusion of movement?
  17. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Thrawn Destroyed Outbound long before he was "discovered" by the Imperials. This was originally a discrepancy by Zahn between "Mist Encounter" (Thrawn's imperial origin story) and Zahn's trilogy. He made a believable, if not extraordianry explanation for this discrepancy in VOTF. A good svae, I believe.
    btw, can the ship be moving, giving the galaxy the illusion of movement?
  18. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    I would KILL for the Adventure Journal that "Mist Encounter" is in.

    D.L., by any chance is "Mist Encounter" the story of Thrawn on a planet making a mockery of the Imperials with nothing more than bits of Imperial technology and native plants & animals that Mike Stackpole refers to in "Missed Chance" in the Tales of the Empire collection?

    In terms of whether or not the Frigate that Luke & Leia were on being in motion?...tough call. They'd have to be orbiting in the opposite direction of the galaxy's rotation EXTREMELY fast (big time understatement) to get it to look as if it is rotating that quickly. But your concept is a valid frame of reference. L & L would feel as if the ship was stationary even though they were moving. It is kind of like the exact opposite of a rider on a Merry-go-round looking all around. The other horses look to the rider as if they're not moving just like the floor of the ride, but the people waiting in line appear to the rider to be moving around the ride quickly.
  19. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    I would KILL for the Adventure Journal that "Mist Encounter" is in.

    D.L., by any chance is "Mist Encounter" the story of Thrawn on a planet making a mockery of the Imperials with nothing more than bits of Imperial technology and native plants & animals that Mike Stackpole refers to in "Missed Chance" in the Tales of the Empire collection?

    In terms of whether or not the Frigate that Luke & Leia were on being in motion?...tough call. They'd have to be orbiting in the opposite direction of the galaxy's rotation EXTREMELY fast (big time understatement) to get it to look as if it is rotating that quickly. But your concept is a valid frame of reference. L & L would feel as if the ship was stationary even though they were moving. It is kind of like the exact opposite of a rider on a Merry-go-round looking all around. The other horses look to the rider as if they're not moving just like the floor of the ride, but the people waiting in line appear to the rider to be moving around the ride quickly.
  20. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Not alot of motion... just enough to give the illusion that the galacy is rotating....
    And yes, "Mist Encounter" is the very story you described. In fact, my favorite Shortstory. I like to call Thrawn "MacGuyver Schwartzenegger" after reading that one. "Mist Encounter" and "Missed Chance" both appeared in the same AJ. Don't you get the pun on Mist-Missed? This was the start of the Zahn-Stacpole relationship. Good news. Bantam has scheduled a new collection for the fall.
  21. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Not alot of motion... just enough to give the illusion that the galacy is rotating....
    And yes, "Mist Encounter" is the very story you described. In fact, my favorite Shortstory. I like to call Thrawn "MacGuyver Schwartzenegger" after reading that one. "Mist Encounter" and "Missed Chance" both appeared in the same AJ. Don't you get the pun on Mist-Missed? This was the start of the Zahn-Stacpole relationship. Good news. Bantam has scheduled a new collection for the fall.
  22. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    D.L., that's the best news I've heard since Stilgar said he wouldn't be back in a week. The guy made my brain hurt this week with the extensive debate we all had. (Don't worry Stilgar, this time I remembered to put a smiley...indicating humor)...and I definately got the pun on "Mist" just like I got "Hart & Seoul" (heart & soul), "Starry Ice" (Starry eyes), and "Etherway" (either way). Nothing like a touch of humor to add to the enjoyment of the E.U. ....My personal favorite Zahn humor line was definately Luke saying "Han clan Solo, maybe" when suggesting to Cakhmaim on what to call Han.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  23. Rogue Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 1998
    star 1
    D.L., that's the best news I've heard since Stilgar said he wouldn't be back in a week. The guy made my brain hurt this week with the extensive debate we all had. (Don't worry Stilgar, this time I remembered to put a smiley...indicating humor)...and I definately got the pun on "Mist" just like I got "Hart & Seoul" (heart & soul), "Starry Ice" (Starry eyes), and "Etherway" (either way). Nothing like a touch of humor to add to the enjoyment of the E.U. ....My personal favorite Zahn humor line was definately Luke saying "Han clan Solo, maybe" when suggesting to Cakhmaim on what to call Han.

    [This message has been edited by Rogue Jedi (edited 01-10-99).]
  24. Stilgar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 1
    Ok. Just a quick point. Now that we have agreed to put the Unknown Regions past the Outer Rim, we have to resolve a few other points:

    *The Outer Rim REALLY is the edge of the galaxy.

    *Though, as I said before, galxies do not have strict, sharp edges, but they thin out gradually. Hence, even if the Unknown Regions covered vast area outside the Outer Rim, this would not represent a lot of stars, rather it would be stars spaced much farther away than inside the galaxy proper.

    *If we do not get a lot of stars (I will have to look up an estimate for what fraction of stars can exist past the "official" edge of a spiral galaxy - it may take some time), how many star systems can the Unknown Regions in fact contain, and thus how powerful can they be?

    *So, the question to think on is about where exactly the Unknown Regions are? Just past the Outer Rim, or also perhaps in some of the satellite galaxies?

    Finally, the Reublic would not be as unstable as the former USSR or Yugoslavia. It is a different situation, where a bunch of ALLIES fought together and won, and made up a democratic government. Rather compare it with the former Chechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland.

    P.S. Another possible mistake that has been pointed out to me: Zahn said in his original trilogy that Vader met and enslaved the Noghri 44 years prior... this would make Anakin about 3 years old at the time
  25. Stilgar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 1
    Ok. Just a quick point. Now that we have agreed to put the Unknown Regions past the Outer Rim, we have to resolve a few other points:

    *The Outer Rim REALLY is the edge of the galaxy.

    *Though, as I said before, galxies do not have strict, sharp edges, but they thin out gradually. Hence, even if the Unknown Regions covered vast area outside the Outer Rim, this would not represent a lot of stars, rather it would be stars spaced much farther away than inside the galaxy proper.

    *If we do not get a lot of stars (I will have to look up an estimate for what fraction of stars can exist past the "official" edge of a spiral galaxy - it may take some time), how many star systems can the Unknown Regions in fact contain, and thus how powerful can they be?

    *So, the question to think on is about where exactly the Unknown Regions are? Just past the Outer Rim, or also perhaps in some of the satellite galaxies?

    Finally, the Reublic would not be as unstable as the former USSR or Yugoslavia. It is a different situation, where a bunch of ALLIES fought together and won, and made up a democratic government. Rather compare it with the former Chechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland.

    P.S. Another possible mistake that has been pointed out to me: Zahn said in his original trilogy that Vader met and enslaved the Noghri 44 years prior... this would make Anakin about 3 years old at the time
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