Speculation Episode 7 Special effects: What do you expect/hope for?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Lee_, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Totally agree, I dont see how anyone could see it different.
  2. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    Of course the special effects are going to be state-of-the-art. LFL is constantly pushing the boundaries, and I expect Episode VII to be no different. It'll be awesome.
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  3. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
  4. gregvader123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 2
    Perhaps I should revise what I said and say that compared to the OT the PT is not "groundbreaking" which is a subjective word anyway. ANH wowed the masses. TPM was just an orgy of excess that distracted from the "story."

    Anyhow I would love it if they went with more real sets and real creature designs (puppets, etc.) I think the reason is because that is how I remember my first impression of Star Wars, not all this CGI.

    Lucas once responded to a criticism about how the CGI looks fake and he responded with saying something to the effect of: "well the puppets from the OT looked fake too."

    Yeah, but the difference, George, is that we remember those puppets fondly. We don't notice they are puppets because our disbelief was suspended a long time ago in a galaxy far far away when we were children and everything was awesome.They make up a major part of the heart and soul of Star Wars.

    But as soon as we saw the green turd in a jedi robe with Frank Oz's voice we were yanked out of that euphoric nostalgia and left scratching our heads. I'm sure I speak for the masses when I say I would have much rather seen puppet Jabba in TPM then that smelly CGI shitpile they shoveled on there. Even his voice was different. Christ I wanna choke Lucas sometimes. Most of the time, actually.

    I think the PT would have been much better had he done a "period-piece" so to speak, regarding special effects so they match up better style or visually or whatever-wise. Kind of like what they did with Indy 4 where they consciously decided to forgo CGI in favor of real stunt work to match the previous films.

    I would love it if they did that with the ST but I know that's just wishful thinking.
  5. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    @gregvader123 who is this "we" you speak of? Every "outsider" I've taken to the prequels was wowed by them. I took a college friend (age 28) who had never seen Star Wars to see TPM 3D, and she was totally wowed. "I totally get Star Wars now." My nephews, who are in their early 20s, live and die by the prequels. At the same time, they watch something like Jim Henson's "Emmet Otter's Jugband Xmas" and all they can do is stare at the puppet wires, which never caught my eye as a child. We tell them to ignore it and use their imagination. One of them responded "I can't, it's too distracting." It's all subjective.

    Part of me rues the day I discovered the internet and people who couldn't watch the prequels with a child's eyes.
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  6. Doug625 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    I think the detail with the CGI was incredible but, the use of miniatures in "Lord of the Rings" along with CGI looked more realistic to me.
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Doug625, Nov 20, 2012
  7. Doug625 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    Code:
    <a href="http://s298.beta.photobucket.com/user/doug625/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm259/doug625/frodo-at-rivendell.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
  8. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    It looked like a seventies porn star kermet the frog
  9. Kuestmaster Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 1
    I just hope for a big friggin space battle, the rots one was more a background and in the prequels I missed the space battles ala death star 1, the asteroid field chase, or the battle of endor.
  10. Grand_Moff_Jawa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    I have to agree with gregvader123 on this. My initial gut feeling after leaving the theater (TPM) was that I was accosted by WAY too much CGI. That's still my stand today. There's no substance to the PT. It's all flash. I hope the ST tones down the blatant CGI by about 50%. And way less digital characters, in my opinion. They never look 100% convincing.
  11. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think it will ever go back to puppets and people wearing rubber masks, and I don't think it should. If you could look around and pick the best CGI characters out of all the movies around, you could put together a collection of really rad stuff (Snow White, Clash of the Titans, Prometheus, etc.), . I think it is a matter of getting the ones that you make look right; picking out the best of the best and scratching the ones that fail. I think some of them do look convincing, more so than any puppets/makeup/rubber masks for sure, and I think they can continue to push the envelope and get better at these creatures. The CGI in the environment is the same way for movies, some is fantastic, some pretty lame. Their challenge for Episode 7 is to create and use the very best..
    Last edited by Lee_, Nov 20, 2012
  12. Neil lowery Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    More story, less cgi real sets. Less is more!
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  13. higgyprince Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    I hate cgi , but i understand the need for it.

    The cgi clone troopers just looked ridiculous...

    What am I hoping for ? , very little cgi and more character based films...

    Lord of the rings got the ratio of real and cgi bang on..

    I have a saying about cgi

    Just because you can , doesn't mean you have to.
    Last edited by higgyprince, Nov 20, 2012
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  14. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
    I want to see Boba Fett have flames shoot out of his butt. That would be pretty Sweet.
  15. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    Well, the visuals in ROTS still look phenomenal to this very day. Ten years would have passed by the time Episode 7 is released. I expect nothing short of the very best. I know people are anti-CGI, but this kind of film needs it. I would also love to see performance-capture utilised, too, as it is already light-years ahead of where it was when it was first introduced. I’m a big fan of the performance-capture technology.
  16. DV75 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2001
    star 3
    I hope for more physicial locales rather than completely relying on digital. Digital should only be there to enhance an actual location.

    Effects wise, I still liked the old motion control shots of ships in flight or in dog fights. I say do some motion control with that of CG.

    Also, more does not necessarily mean better. The clone war segment at the end of AOTC was really bad. Seemed like a video game.
  17. DarthHumbug Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Biggest problem with the Yoda puppet in TPM is he was cross eyed. I can't believe nobody noticed while they were filming it.

    A bit off topic maybe but I reckon the best CG generated character yet is Davy Jones from Pirates Of The Caribbean. There's a scene in Dead Man's Chest with Davy Jones, Will Turner and Lord Beckett in a ship's cabin plotting with each other, and Davy Jones really genuinely looks completely real. To me anyway! If they can get the creatures in Episode 7 looking like that I'll have no complaints.
    Last edited by DarthHumbug, Nov 20, 2012
  18. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    Yes, to this day, I will still agree with that. Also, and I may get flamed for this, but I think the main robot in I, Robot is also up there. Caesar, that gorilla and the orangutan from Rise of the Planet of the Apes were very good, too. Oddly enough, the orangutan was the best. I swear he was real. And, without sounding biased, I think that Yoda from ROTS deserves a mention. His facial movements were excellent.
    Last edited by Krueger, Nov 20, 2012
  19. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I loathed TPM Yoda, with all my heart. So ugly. I'm very, very happy that he's been digitally replaced on the Blu-ray!
  20. TheFoot Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2011
    star 2
    As someone mentioned above, the clone troopers being CGI was the last straw for me. I still forgave TPM even though it is a bit bloated with effects, but AOTC is just scene after scene of obviously computer-made imagery, to a huge extent.

    But yeah, the should have made a dozen clone suits for those close-up shots, where it's obvious.

    I want the ST to be gritty, simple, have less green screen and more sets, as many have mentioned above. I don't want to be overloaded with different types of starships either like in the PT (the scene at the start of ROTS comes to mind). I prefer how things were in the OT, with the memorable X-wing and Falcon, for example, being featured through all 3 films. A good example of how the PT is different, is the Tatooine scenes in AOTC, where they fly to the planet on this huge silver ship that looks a BIT like the one in TPM, but isn't.

    Why wasn't it just...the same one from TPM? I mean why not, right? That stuff bothers me a lot.
    Last edited by TheFoot, Nov 20, 2012
  21. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I think there is still a place for practical puppet work if it's done by the best: Rick Baker.

    Have Baker do the creature/practical stuff. Have Richard Taylor and Weta Workshop do some specialty costuming if needed and ILM for imocap(ILM's in-house mo cap) for some full CG characters that are humanoid.

    TPM Yoda didnt match well enough, at least the JC scenes. I think the lighting there made him look to silicony. He looked waxy in some of those shots.
    The latter shots in Naboo when he's talking to Kenobi and Mace were much improved. I think Yoda puppet can still be highly effective but it depends on the staging of it.

    Guillermo del Toro's Hellboy films show that some practical fx can be highly inventive(especially Hellboy 2) and can still have a place. Those were done by Spectral Motion(featuring several Baker alumns).
    Last edited by ShaneP, Nov 20, 2012
  22. battlefrontboy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 1
    If George were doing it we would probably see fully CGI Luke, Leia, and Han. Even though the technology isn't completely there (Tron was ok), George would push it there. I wouldn't expect Disney to push the limits of technology like George always did. George took risks with every film. That's why he created ILM. The effects will probably be on par with John Carter, or for that matter, ROTS.
  23. Commander-DWH Shiny Costuming & Props Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2003
    star 4
    Okay, first thing I'm going to say is that people underestimate the sheer volume of practical effects used in the prequels. It's been mentioned before, but everyone keeps flailing about green screens. The thing is, the practical effects are so seamless with the CGI effects, that nobody even realizes they're there. And that's what makes them so amazing at what they do.

    From a professional standpoint, I want this to be a visual spectacle. I know what we're currently capable of as an industry, and I want to see that taken and pushed even further. Creature animation, certainly, though we've come a long way since Jar Jar Binks and CGI Naboo, both of which were absolutely groundbreaking at the time.

    I want to see dense, complex environments. I don't just want it to seem real- I want it to seem massive. I want to get the sense that you can get lost in this world. Most digital sets are quite shallow- we're pushing that a lot on my current project at my own company, and I think ILM has the capability to take it at least as far, maybe even farther.

    Y'all can hate on CGI and digital effects all you want, but VFX are my life, and Star Wars is what inspired me to get into the industry. I want the next generation of VFX artists to be inspired by Star Wars like I was, to see how it was made and say, "That's amazing. I want to do that when I grow up."

    Also, I want to work on one of them. But that goes without saying. :p
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  24. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    This is the best post so far.
  25. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Well, but Disney is not per se making the film (they allow a lot of creative freedom to the makers of the film, and avoid micromanaging as I understand it); I think there is fairly good reason to believe they will push the limits to really make it Star Wars, or at least go to the maximum of capabilities.