*Episode II and the Expanded Universe *

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Padme Bra, Dec 3, 2001.

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  1. Darth-Antithesis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2002
    star 2
    hey ppl
    this is a kewl thread

    is it me or is it just that everyone finds the EU much more stimulating than the stuff in the movies???
    one more thing...
    do the novelizations really flesh out the stories that much???
    excuse me if any of these questions seem stupid... im only a newbie
  2. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    is it me or is it just that everyone finds the EU much more stimulating than the stuff in the movies???

    Some people do. Mostly female teenage fans who hang out in Lit. Not me though.

    one more thing...
    do the novelizations really flesh out the stories that much???


    For me they do, though it was mostly just for ANH and ROTJ. The ESB novelization didn't add much new information, and I thought the TPM one was horrible aside from the added intro with the Podrace and Anakin healing a wounded Tusken Raider.
  3. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I wonder if Jangfo could be one of Sysa's 'Mandalorian Protectors'? Maybe we will see some EU stories post-E2 that deal with more of them being sent to aid the Clones...?
  4. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    ...well Boba definately is. I'm hoping we'll meet Shysa's father or grandfather in the upcoming Jango Fett miniseries...
  5. qoataza Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 3
    Hey hi there.

    I ask you to please excuse this interruption, for I just found this excellent thread and would like to comment on something from a ways back.

    This was posted:
    'It has been said that GL doesn't read the EU (I believe there is a quote from him somewhere), so there really is not much chance that a completely EU character will show up in a movie, because he doesn't even know about them.'

    This Lucas quote is mentioned all of the time. It's referred to mercilessly in EU basher/gusher debates. I'd like to know what some of you HONESTLY think about this for yourselves now.

    What I'm saying is that, of all the so-named facts that are thrown around here, that is the ONE that I personally think is a bunch of bul*****.

    He definitely said that. I've seen the actual quote, but come on, you're tellin' me if you're Lucas, there's not been any occasion when you've cracked open an EU book to see what these people are doing to the universe you established.

    These EU products are everywhere, please! Books-video games-audio novels-comics-role playing. He's gotta come across some information, even if it's unintentional. But I'm sticking to my opinion that he certainly DOES read the stuff, intentionally. It's human nature, one of our most basic behaviorz, curiosity. Trust me, I know I'd be sneaking peeks, even if it was just to glance at something, and if I had to bet, I'd say Lucas does too.

    Anyway, please don't ask me to back this up with fact. I already stated that this is purely opinion, my true belief about the matter. Now I'm a bit curious to know if anyone would agree.
  6. Darth_Ignant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 7
    I think, somehwere, he has said he plays the games. And he does have some kind of approval over plots...probably so they don't contradict the films too much. But, if he says he doesn't read the books, then I believe him. Why would he lie?
  7. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    The proof for me is in all the contradictions. If he does read them, he sees them as a different universe. Think about it though, you create this universe and allow all these writers to expand on it cause, well, you're greedy. When you choose to go back and add to the story, would you feel inclined to read all the EU and try to fit it in with your universe, even if it contradicts itself and goes against your original vision? Nah. You'd claim that you never saw a piece of EU and do your own thing.
  8. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Originally posted by goataza:
    "'It has been said that GL doesn't read the EU (I believe there is a quote from him somewhere), so there really is not much chance that a completely EU character will show up in a movie, because he doesn't even know about them.'

    This Lucas quote is mentioned all of the time. It's referred to mercilessly in EU basher/gusher debates.
    (snip)
    He definitely said that. I've seen the actual quote,"


    If you've seen it, then add it to Post Proof Or Retract, a thread I've started in order to reference such material. Like you say, it's used mercilessly in basher/gusher debates, but I'd like proof as to whether or not it's the truth.
  9. qoataza Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 3
    Excellent posts everyone!
  10. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    PadmeBra wrote:
    "The proof for me is in all the contradictions. (SNIP) would you feel inclined to read all the EU and try to fit it in with your universe, even if it contradicts itself and goes against your original vision?"
    So certain are you?
  11. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Lucas doesn't read the novels. This is obvious, and I say this as a fan of the EU. ( It is possible he read the final manuscript of SotME, since he had a space battle cut from it back in 1977, before it's publication, but this is debatable I guess. )

    He does play the videogames. He does occasionally flip through the comics.

    Otherwise he just approves the very basic plots of the stories, and once in awhile suggest an idea or direction for a story or series to go in, and what to avoid.

    If there's contradictions, it's not up to Lucas to fix them. That's the job of the continuity editors, such as Sue Rostoni and Allen Kaush, at Lucasfilm Licensing.

    When you choose to go back and add to the story, would you feel inclined to read all the EU and try to fit it in with your universe, even if it contradicts itself and goes against your original vision? Nah. You'd claim that you never saw a piece of EU and do your own thing.

    He already does his own thing. That's why certain small elements aren't meshing until they're retconned by later stories. Examples like Clone Wars dating, the Republic's military and the rise of the movie Sith.

    Contradictions will always exist, whether the EU begins anew or not. But in my opinion, explicit contradictions are few and far between ( only one that comes to mind is Owen Lars ) and if one wants to see it as a self-contained saga, they can. I do.

    I also don't think that anything is going against his "vision". That idiom seems to be based on personal taste. Individual stories might, but not the EU as a whole. Not when he expressed his like for it in the SotME introduction, even if it is 8 years old.

    In fact, it seems like the early stories are the ones that most modern fans don't care for. Specifically the Marvel comics, SotME and the Lando Adventures. 1977 to 1990 was a mixed bag. In fact, it's always a mixed bag. The mid to late 90's saw some horrible Star Wars novels ( to the majority of EU fans and Purists alike ), such as any of the stand-alone ones or anything with "Anderson" or "Hambly" printed on the cover.

    I think it's safe to say that out of all of the EU, any fan of Star Wars can find at least 5 things that they would like. Whether that's a movie guide, comic, novel, short story or videogame.

    I, for one, am a movie fan first and foremost. I just have a hard time waiting between movies...and trilogies. I love that universe and need to visit it often.

    Through the good, the bad and the mediocre, I never tire of it. I always close a book with a feeling of enjoyment, time well spent, and getting my money's worth. Some stories more than others, though.
  12. Ol-Gil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2001
    star 2
    Also, GL's not reading EU [or at least denying it] makes him look better if one of his stories happens to be similar to an EU tale. I mean, if he was an avid fan of EU, either he would feel obligated not to use similar stories to what he's already read, leaving us with films modified from their original plots, or else fans would criticize him for being some sort of copycat.

    All in all, I'm glad he doesn't get into EU.
  13. Darth_Nur Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2002
    star 1
    Would have to agree on that one. Although, I do not think he is as concerned about fan's opinions on his storytelling in comparison with EU material.

    More importantly, he has the legal considerations to keep in mind. The barrage of "You Stole My Idea" lawsuits in Hollywood would be enough to keep even the legal department at LucasFilm covering their own asses.

    He has his vision and his themes he prefers to highlight and might easily coincide with other's ideas from a universe HE created in the first place. This helps protect him legally and allows him to go his way as he sees fit.

    Of course, the licensing contracts would certainly cover his butt in most cases. But aspects of plots and themes are harder to lay claim to for LucasFilms than, say, characters and worlds.

    Personally, I don't believe him but am happy to see that he is doing things his way. (with the exception of boy bands)

    More on topic, and this is a bit premature but in keeping with Ep II and III and their effects on EU and vice versa. Won't there be an uproar if Lucas does away with the whole Anakin in a Volcano concept?

    Darth Nur
  14. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Just a note on the "Death Watch" from the upcoming Jango Fett comic books:

    The Mandalorians are and always will be, a group of warriors from the planet Mandalore. They are simple protectors of their planet and its system. They are wiped out in the Clone Wars by the Jedi(save for three: Boba Fett, Fenn Shysa, and Tobbi Dala)

    I'm also pretty sure that Jango Fett is indeed born in the Mandalore system, and isn't just picked up by Mandalorians, here's why:

    The official site's update on the "Open Seasons" states that Jango's parents are killed by the "Death Watch." Longtime fans of the EU know that the Death Watch hail from the Mandalore system (see Imperial Sourcebook, 1989 pg. 12 - Imperial Royal Guard entry), hence Jango himself is from the Mandalorians system.

    See, this shows the Mandalorians to be more of a noble protective police force (as they are described in the Marvel comic series) rather than a travelling band of terrorists, as some of the canonists on the board have described them as.
  15. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    Jango wears Mandalorian armour in AotC. That does not make the Clones Mandalorian. I don't think he is Mandalorian.
  16. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    I agree. Just because the clones are physical replicas of Jango, does not make them Mandalorians also.

    For one, they're simply trained differently than Mandalorians.

    Also, by the time 22 years Before the Battle of Yavin rolls around, I don't think Jango is officially a Mandalorian Commando any longer. For one, he's a mercenary for hire, something Mandalorians don't do (as pointed out by the Marvel series. Boba's a renegade).


    Note: Since the Death Watch comes from the Mandalore system, and since Jango's parents are killed by the Death Watch, one can surmise that Jango too, is from the Mandalorian system.

    We also know that Jango is taken in by the Mandalorians, and they help him get the revenge on the Death Watch he wants.

    ...right now, this is all we know of Jango's background...besides his getting his cloned son ten years before AotC, and his dealings with Zam Wessel and a strange artifact five years before AotC.

    Still, one can surmise that the Mandalorians took him into their ranks, as he does have Mandalorian armor in AotC.

    I'm now officially being redundant.
  17. qoataza Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 3
  18. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Good posts, everyone. It's so nice to see such a civil conversation about the EU.
  19. DUSHONI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 4
    Im kinda new tho this thread, but heres my question....do you think it would have been hard for Jedi Master Ikrit to be taken seriously by the other Jedi....I mean he was a BUNNY.....picture a Sith versus a BUNNY....Darth Maul versus the bunny from Unhapily Ever After....(me versus Nikki Cox...bedroom match...nice)
  20. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    "picture a Sith versus a BUNNY"

    Not hard. Who remembers the Energizer commercial with the Energizer Bunny vs. Darth Vader?

    Also, Ikrit would never have fought a Sith Lord because at the time when Ikrit was in his prime (about 400 years BBY), the Sith were in hiding and thought to be extinct.
  21. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Besides, everyone seems to take that little green muppet that sounds like Grover from Semsame Street pretty seriously....
  22. qoataza Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 3
    What if they had made the Ewoks look like bunnies? I would have to predict even more complaints. Opinions?
  23. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Ok, so here we go: EU references in the movies thus far:

    Episode I:
    - The Boonta Race (Droids cartoon)
    - Coruscant (Zahn novels)
    - Double Bladed Lightsaber (The Sith War)
    Episode II:
    - The Bogden Moons (Droids cartoon)
    - Coruscant (Zahn novels)
    - Rishi (Zahn novels)
    - Aalya Secura (Ongoing comic series)
    - Swoop bikes (Brian Daley Han Solo Trilogy)
    Episode IV Special Edition
    - Outrider (Shadows of the Empire)
    - Swoops Bikes(Brian Daley Han Solo Trilogy)
    Episode V Special Edition
    - None
    Episode VI Special Edition
    - Coruscant (Zahn novels)
  24. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    There's one more to definetly add : The Jedi Council first appeared in Dark Lords of the Sith, at the Jedi summit on Deneba.

    One that I know won't actually be appearing in Episode II, since it's a background note, is one of the senators represents the planet Gravlex Med, which is a reference from the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy.

    I forget what senator...It may be that one that was also cut from TPM, that looks like a large bug. I think there's an icon of him.
  25. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Okay, I looked at my copy of the DLotS trade paperback, but I see no mention of the Jedi Council. But it's definetly in the audio drama. Weird.
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