Episode III spoilers forum: Acceptable behavior?

Nah, you're own your own there. This thread's done, right? (well, for me, at least. )

 

The "there is no problem" statement was in the context of whether the mods were handling 3SA properly or not. I was arguing that they were. It didn't mean that there was no flaming, as you stated.

Let me get this straight--you're saying that the mods are handling 3SA properly and that there is flaming. Does this mean that you think the flaming there is acceptable?

And I'm going to correct you on one statement: people are fleeing 3SA due to be flamed out of there (this is a fact--I myself have done so--you can't argue with this). This is not a sign of incompetence on the moderator's part, but rather a sign that a certain attitude is being allowed to prevail there that should not be--as in, people who either gush over the PT or imply that Anakin is Satan and a monster that goes "bump" in the night (which evidently you think is perfectly OK, because you only said that PT-bashing shouldn't be allowed) are being very nasty to those who don't agree with them. As an Anakin fan who has been subject to their nastiness (which I have shown you examples of on the previous page, and the fact that you don't think those posts are nasty tells me something about your opinions), I have been witness to this, and as I said, have been driven from the forum because of this. This is not a problem with the moderators, but with the rules in general--so I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to derail this topic as well as kiss up to the moderators by accusing MeBeJedi and myself of something we are not in any way trying to do.

 

...you're saying that the mods are handling 3SA properly and that there is flaming. Does this mean that you think the flaming there is acceptable?

Flaming is not acceptable. It's against the TOS. As you and MeBeJedi have said, mods cannot reduce flaming to zero. They can only moderate it. The reason for my statement above is that MeBeJedi incorrectly translated my "there is no problem" statement into "there is zero flaming".

...but rather a sign that a certain attitude is being allowed to prevail there

But it's the mods who allow attitudes to prevail. Moderating the overall attitude is one of their primary responsibilities.

...imply that Anakin is Satan and a monster that goes "bump" in the night (which evidently you think is perfectly OK, because you only said that PT-bashing shouldn't be allowed)

Could you clarify this? Are you saying members should not be allowed to say certain things about Anakin? If so, what things?

and the fact that you don't think those posts are nasty tells me something about your opinions)

I don't think that most of those posts are nasty. Some are, as I have said several times now.

...as well as kiss up to the moderators

This isn't fair. You said, "As I said, I'm not playing your game anymore. You can continue to push it, I will not respond." but since then you have repeated the same charge two more times. If you are going to keep making this accusation, please answer my question. Why do you think I am trying to get on the moderators' side? To what end? Why do you keep mentioning it?

 

Why do I keep thinking you're trying to get on the moderators' side? Because you have said many times that MeBeJedi and I are obviously trying to bash the moderators because we think there is a problem in 3SA, and if we are not trying to bash the moderators, then we shouldn't say that there is a problem in 3SA.

I don't think that most of those posts are nasty.

I disagree with you--I think they are all nasty, and they constitute a problem in 3SA. However, you are trying to either get me to shut up or get me to say there is something wrong with the moderators, neither of which I plan to do. What is it you're afraid of? That I might actually accomplish something here by complaining and that something might change in 3SA?

Could you clarify this? Are you saying members should not be allowed to say certain things about Anakin? If so, what things?

Yes, I am. I don't think people should be continually allowed to bash Anakin (say that he is an evil, horrible monster and that the Tuskens are innocent Care Bears, for example) when people are not allowed to bash other characters, such as Mara Jade (a friend of mine was banned for calling her a slut). People certainly shouldn't be allowed to say that posters who defend Anakin are psycho, delusional, irrational, or other names that I myself have been called multiple times (or that our opinions don't matter if we're females). But then again, I posted those examples, and you said they weren't nasty.

The reason for my statement above is that MeBeJedi incorrectly translated my "there is no problem" statement into "there is zero flaming".

If there were no problem, there would be zero flaming. And once again...are you going to argue that I didn't get flamed out of the forum? I don't post there anymore because I continuously got flamed. I know this, and you have no room to argue against that.

 

Flaming is not acceptable. It's against the TOS.[/i]

That's true. So I would like to ask what is worse:

A) B_S making a thread like he did?

b) People flaming him in the thread?

Flaming goes on a in 3SA. The mods can only do so much. So it comes down to the users. If the users can't handle the fact that people will not agree with them to the point that they have to flame people then they should not be posting.

 

That's true. So I would like to ask what is worse:

A) B_S making a thread like he did?

b) People flaming him in the thread?

I'd have to say the latter is worse. The first option isn't bad at all. B_S simply presented an opinion. That's not against the rules.

If the users can't handle the fact that people will not agree with them to the point that they have to flame people then they should not be posting.

That's the wrong way to look at things. If someone sees a thread that they disagree with, they should stay out of it. They shouldn't flame the author of said thread.

 

That's the wrong way to look at things. If someone sees a thread that they disagree with, they should stay out of it. They shouldn't flame the author of said thread. [/i]

You kind of missed my point. If let's say you and I disagree on something or even on what a thread is about. I then flame you. Well I should not be posting because if that's all I can do when people don't agree with me well...that's not good for the forum it's also not good for the poster.

 

Why do I keep thinking you're trying to get on the moderators' side?

That's not what I'm trying to do. I've been extremely critical of the mods for several different forums. I don't care what they think of me. In this very thread I said they don't do anything about numerous off-topic PT bash posts.

I disagree with you

Exactly. We disagree about the level of nastiness of some of those comments. Are members here not allowed to disagree with you on that? I've said that the ones that are not nasty are dumb.

Are you saying members should not be allowed to say certain things about Anakin?

Yes, I am.

There are no rules against flaming fictional characters. There can't be, without seriously affecting freedom of expression here. As long as you want this change to occur, I think you are going to be frustrated.

If there were no problem, there would be zero flaming.

The "there is no problem" statement was in a context that gave it the meaning of "the mods are OK", not, "there is zero flaming".

..are you going to argue that I didn't get flamed out of the forum?

I have never said you didn't. What's odd is that you want to say that people are fleeing the forum but there are no problems with the mods. I don't think that both can be true.

 

I do think both can be true. I think the moderators can be doing the best they can at the moment and not realize that there is a problem--which is what the Communications forum is for.

There are no rules against flaming fictional characters.

Could have fooled me--as I said, I've had friends get banned for insulting Mara Jade. It's only Anakin who seems to be the universal punching bag. There may not be any rules against flaming Obi-Wan, but if you do it, you will get flamed yourself--there are posters who think he's a saint.

 

Could have fooled me

I should have said, "There are no rules against flaming fictional characters in the 3SA." How could there be without seriously affecting freedom of expression?

 

I should have said, "There are no rules against flaming fictional characters in the 3SA."

Again...there seem to be rules against flaming one fictional character but not another. Why the inconsistency?

And the fact remains that it seems that only flaming Anakin is allowed, not praising or defending him...because anyone who does that gets flamed out of the forum, called irrational, illogical, delusional, etc. You saw the posts directed at me so you know what I'm talking about.

And there is a way to dislike a fictional character's actions without flaming him/her out of the galaxy. It depends on how mature you want your arguments to be.

 

Why the inconsistency?

I'm only talking about the 3SA, where there are no such rules for any fictional character. The various forums have different audiences, so consistency among them is not always proper.

 

The various forums have different audiences, so consistency among them is not always proper.

Why not?

If it's not OK to flame a fictional character in one forum, it shouldn't be OK in any forum. The "audiences" are human beings and Star Wars fans...why the difference?

Besides, it still should not be OK, even if it's OK to flame a fictional character to pieces, to call a user "delusional," "irrational", or any other such name for defending that character.

 

If it's not OK to flame a fictional character in one forum, it shouldn't be OK in any forum.

And I could say that if it's OK in 3SA, it should be allowed everywhere. Each respective audience (which can be markedly different in each forum) should decide for themselves.

 

So do you finally see what I'm trying to make some changes with? The audience attitude in 3SA. The attitude that it's OK to be nasty to female Star Wars fans, particularly those who like Anakin.

And I strongly disagree that the audience is different in each forum. Star Wars fans are Star Wars fans. The rules should be the same across the boards. If it is OK to flame Anakin Skywalker, it should be OK to flame Mara Jade. I honestly would not have such a problem with people expressing a negative opinion of Anakin if it weren't considered so taboo to give other characters the same treatment.

 

The audience attitude in 3SA.

You have proposed no solution to this.

The attitude that it's OK to be nasty to female Star Wars fans...

That's already not allowed. IMHO, you are frustrated because your definition of "nasty" is too broad and disagrees with what the mods will enforce.

And I strongly disagree that the audience is different in each forum.

I think they are, and that's why the rules are different. Over time, each audience has communicated to the admins what they want.

Star Wars fans are Star Wars fans.

No they aren't. I don't care about EU, other Lucasfilm projects, fan fiction, etc. We are all quite different.

 

IMHO, you are frustrated because your definition of "nasty" is too broad and disagrees with what the mods will enforce.

You're absolutely right--and you think it's OK to treat people the way I was treated, although it made me leave the forum, because you have said you thought most of the posts I listed were perfectly OK.

Over time, each audience has communicated to the admins what they want.

Shouldn't the admins set policy, not the audience? What you seem to be saying here is that if the audience in 3SA wants a no-girls-allowed, Anakin-bashing-only, no-Anakin-praising and no-Obi-Wan-bashing forum, no Hayden-praising or Lucas-praising but no-Kurtz-bashing forum, then that should be OK. And it shouldn't be. I don't care if the majority of the posters who post there feel that way, those of us who are in the minority should not be flamed out of the forum.

I think they are, and that's why the rules are different.

Have I missed something or is this not one message board with one owner? Does someone different own 3SA than the EU? Is not Sapient the head administrator over all the forums?

 

..you think it's OK to treat people the way I was treated

I disagree with your characterization of "how you were treated" by most of those posts. Some were out of line.

Shouldn't the admins set policy, not the audience?

This place is a for-profit business. All such businesses cater to their audience, or die.

 

I don't know about you, but I didn't pay a dime to post here. The business needs to cater to the advertisers.

Besides, catering to the business doesn't mean there are no rules.

I disagree with your characterization of "how you were treated" by most of those posts.

They were nasty, they were offensive, they were meant to flame me out of the forum. They were directed at me, and only I know how I saw them. If someone says something that offends you, it's not my place to tell you you shouldn't be offended.

 

The business needs to cater to the advertisers.

And they only attract advertisers by keeping a sizable audience.

 

I frequent other message boards, and I also run mailing lists myself, in which the moderators set the rules. If the moderators don't set the rules, and the audience should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, then why have moderators?

As far as keeping an audience--I left the forum, and I know others have for the same reason. Do we not count? Do our opinions not matter? Do only the opinions of the bloodthirsty "Anakin-is-Hitler" fans matter?

The message I'm getting from you here is that I'm not important and that my opinion doesn't count, and also that it doesn't matter whether or not I've been offended--because you don't see a problem with 3SA.

 

the audience should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, then why have moderators?

The moderators set the rules that maximize the audience and keep illegal (really illegal stuff) off the boards. It's not direct democracy, it's representative democracy. The mods are the representatives. They can be overruled by the "benign" dictator Josh.

Do we not count? Do our opinions not matter?

You count as much as I do. Apparently, there aren't enough of you to get a change made. Or at least there aren't enough of you speaking up about it.

 

I should think the Josh and the moderators would want to set an atmosphere that would encourage as many mature, friendly Star Wars fans as possible to post, and keep out those with nasty attitudes who will drive out other posters--not just to recruit warm bodies to post there just to "maximize the audience". But then again, that's why I post on other message boards.

Like I said--it seems to be that you don't care that people such as Binary, myself, and several others have been driven out by the blood-lust and the nastiness.

 

it seems to be that you don't care that people such as Binary, myself, and several others have been driven out by the blood-lust and the nastiness.

You and I disagree about the level of "blood-lust and nastiness".

Regardless of the rules, someone is always going to be unhappy. The goal can't be to please everyone. So, yes, I don't care that some don't want to be a part of it. What I care about is the rules themselves.

As far as Binary goes, he can do in 3SA what he's asking to do, which is to be able to criticize the spoilers. That goes on constantly in numerous threads.

 

So, yes, I don't care that some don't want to be a part of it. What I care about is the rules themselves.

And so do I--like I said, obviously you don't care that people get offended. Those comments were directed at me--I saw them as nasty--you have no business telling me that I'm wrong to see them that way when the comments were not directed at you. I have gotten a few PMs from people who read those posts and were appalled that those things were said to me in 3SA and that the posters got away with it.

No, we can't make everybody happy--but the people who should be happy are the ones who are not driving other posters out of the forum with their nastiness.