Episode III spoilers forum: Acceptable behavior?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by ElfStar, Nov 1, 2003.

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  1. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I think the issue is simple. Members who flame, bait or are generally disrespectful should get warned or banned regardless of their opinion.
  2. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Thank you, ElfStar, for starting this thread. Let me address my "motivations" for starting the thread in question:

    In the Bashers' Sanctuary over on TPM board, several of us spoiled bashers were concerned about some of the E3 spoilers. We mentioned in a vague way what we didn't like, then we inadvertently got a little too specific and ended up spoiling some fellow fans who didn't want to be spoiled.

    So what to do? The answer was obvious. Since the E3 spoilers forum is the only forum that allows spoilers, I had to post my comments about spoilers in that forum. If I had posted them in any of the 250 other forums (fora?), I could have been banned.

    Did I start a general "E3 sucks and let's all jump on it" thread? No.

    I started a thread in which I criticized one aspect of the film. In fact, my conclusion wasn't even that the film would "suck" because of this aspect. I merely concluded that it would not be a "dark" film.

    OK, so much for my motivations. I wanted to discuss spoilers. Now for my reaction to the thread:

    I wasn't surprised that the posters who flamed me didn't get banned or (AFAIK) even a warning. I'm too familiar with what goes on in that board to be surprised by that. Rather than PM a mod about half-a-dozen flames directed my way, I was content to ignore them and proceed with the discussion.

    That's where the problem comes in.

    Dehrian decided to end the discussion, with the odd remark that there was no discussion. My only guess is that Dehrian does not consider vigorous debate to be discussion. I'd suggest he read Plato's dialogues. They are full of vigorous debate, yet I've never heard of anyone saying they are not discussions. I also suppose that Dehrian thinks that trying to convince others of your point of view is "proselytization". That is not proselytization. That is argumentation. Argumentation is a type of discussion.

    It seems that discussion of spoilers is not necessarily allowed in the E3 spoiler board. Flaming apparently is. The discussion has been ended but the flamers post on.
  3. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    ShaneP, No, I don't stalk the boards looking for 'basher' post if that's what you're implying... I've just noticed as of late and upsurgence of 'Prequal bashing' all over the place (and if you read the rest of my post, you'll note that I mentioned that there was a devisivness in the 3SA forum all around). Sometimes I think the only 'safe' place for those of us who like the prequals is in the fan fiction forum...
  4. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    The only "safe place"? What are you talking about?

    This isn't a war.

    And if your comments were true, there would be no need for a Basher's Sanctuary now would there?

    *Goes back to worshipping Bashomet*

    EDIT:

    BTW, if you've watched the PSA you'd have noticed that many of the people who've up to this point really enjoyed many aspects of the pT absolutley loathe a new certain character.

    And most of those people never touched the sanctuary.

    Are they now "chronic bashers"?

    I like the new character. Does that make me a "chronic gusher"?

    No, it makes me a fan who likes to discuss different aspects of these films I grew up loving and still do.

    I don't have to like every single aspect of the films to be a fan.
  5. deltron_zero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    I'm only talking about those chronic bashers who are playing games.

    That's all you're getting at? Sorry, you're right, I did misread then...

    Let the bashers do all they want in the other forums. But not in the 3SA.

    It sounded a bit like you were calling for an end to all negative opinions of the prequels being expressed in the PSA. But what you apparently are calling for an end to seems quite subjective to me. Unless you can clearly define what these "games" are and how they are played, I don't see how we can do anything about it.

    People post threads all the time that are takes on the spoilers in light of a positive opinion of the prequels. Are these people criticized for simply baiting those fans who don't like the prequels? The notion sounds ridiculous, as it should.

    People really need to stop treating the opinions of others as personal attacks.

    I think the issue is simple. Members who flame, bait or are generally disrespectful should get warned or banned regardless of their opinion.

    Bingo.
  6. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Zidious, the reason I mentioned things in the thread about TPM and AOTC is simple:

    E3 is the conclusion of a trilogy that began with TPM and AOTC. E3 is supposed to be the "payoff", so to speak, in which things are wrapped-up.

    I had to reference the previous two films to make my point. E3 would indeed be dark if TPM and AOTC had done things differently. My point is that the E3 spoilers that lead many to believe that the movie will be dark will NOT make the movie dark precisely because of the failings in TPM and AOTC.

    Why did I not post these things in TPM or AOTC forum? Because my thread contained spoilers.

    How can I talk about E3 without also often talking about the other two prequels? Whenever I see a discussion of Return of the King, I also see comments made about FOTR and TTT for obvious reasons.

    E3 is not a stand-alone movie. It is part of a trilogy. As such, it is perfectly natural to discuss the other parts of the trilogy when examining the last part.
  7. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    "I've just noticed as of late and upsurgence of 'Prequal bashing' all over the place."

    I think this is because lots of spoilers have been released in the last six weeks or so. Lots of people don't like what is revealed in the spoilers. This reflects poorly upon TPM and AOTC as well. This all results in more critical posts.
  8. Starwars_1977-2005 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2003
    star 2
    Most of the time, so called bashers criticize the movies but are victims of personal attacks in return.

    My first posts were always moderate (I've been here under several names over the years), but I must admit that I tend to become more agressive when I am insulted and suspected of having evil motives and all.

    There is no real discussion allowed in the EpIII SA boards, just speculation, really.
    It was the same for AOTC.

    But I still remember very interesting and critical discussions taking place back in the days of TPM.

    I do not like at all what sw fandom has become since then.

    One thing I do not understand is why the TFN discussion boards are not as opened as most other movie forums over the net.
    Mind you, the greatest LOTR boards for exemple tolerate critics, discussions, and just any opinion on the Jackson's movies.

    So what's the problem with TFn ?
  9. Dread_Pirate_Beezel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 1
    I think the issue is simple. Members who flame, bait or are generally disrespectful should get warned or banned regardless of their opinion.


    my sentiments exactly! IF someone baits another user into swearing then the person who swore gets a week banning and the person who baited should get two days. that way if the flamer/baiter gets upset then they will proceed with their true colors and then you can ban for a longer period. If they take the discipline then they will be a better poster and will have learned a lesson!
  10. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    Sometimes I think the only 'safe' place for those of us who like the prequals is in the fan fiction forum...

    That's because people who can't stand the PT (like me) won't write about it or put into fiction their dislike for it. If there's something they don't like in it, they change it. But we're not talking about fan fic writers here.
  11. Starwars_1977-2005 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2003
    star 2
    Problem with the "people who flame get banned" philosophy :

    Some fans here take it personnaly when you say that you don't like JarJAr or Lucas or the PT, and you are treated as if you had insulted them personaly.
    They defend Lucas with more passion than they would defend themselves.

    The problem is that we (Tfn JCers) don't necessarily agree on what flaming or disrespect is.


  12. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Wait wait wait...

    The only "safe place"? What are you talking about?

    This isn't a war.


    I never said it was, but there seems to be lot of back lash against people who happen to like the prequals, perhaps I should have clarified by especially saying those who empathise with Anakin. We get bombarded with the "tusken slaughter/ect" and other such 'aspects' that people who want to see a 'baby eating Darth Vader'.

    And if your comments were true, there would be no need for a Basher's Sanctuary now would there?

    Actually, I dislike the idea of a 'basher sanctuary' almost as much as I loathe the EUDF...


    many of the people who've up to this point really enjoyed many aspects of the pT absolutley loathe a new certain character.

    You mean Chef Gormaanda? :p


    No, it makes me a fan who likes to discuss different aspects of these films I grew up loving and still do.

    Perhaps it's just the prevailing hostility and the 'either one or the other' mentality that I dislike... the polerization that is so prevelant in the other two prequal forums (which is a lot more subtal in fan fiction I guess) has recently spilled into 3SA...
  13. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I don't think that the problem is the polarization (that happens all the time), it's the militants (the folks who cannot handle opinions contrary to theirs).
  14. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
  15. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Shane, I think you might want to edit that post.
  16. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Why thanks alot for actually revealing a spoiler Knightwriter.

    Ahh....mods......such good they do.
  17. Dread_Pirate_Beezel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 1
    Flaming isn't allowed here.
  18. Dread_Pirate_Beezel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 1
    Its messages like that are flaming and get someone so riled up its no surprise they use vulgarity! thats why someone should be banned for flaming!

    Oh and tnanks for the edit. I was hoping you would do that. i was trying to make a point!
  19. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    I've just read the thread in question - the amount of flaming and baiting thrown at Binary Sunset was disgraceful.
    I applaud Binary for keeping a cool head and not responding in kind.

    I sometimes see the odd bit of flaming or baiting on a thread when someone gets a bit angry after arguing for a while, but in this case there were a number of posters doing it and they weren't even debating the topic, this is worrying because it would suggest that they feel they can get away with it, as if binary was 'fair game'.

    Let the bashers do all they want in the other forums. But not in the 3SA.

    That sort of remark speaks volumes. Perhaps you'd prefer it if the 'bashers' sat at the back of the bus too?

    g
  20. Dread_Pirate_Beezel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 1
    How about you ban the person for vulgarity and put the other person that baited on a trial in the administration forum to decide their fate. Let the entire Staff decide their fate. that way no one person can say its ban worthy or not! If the flamer still doesnt like it. Then its obvious a longer ban should be upheld for his reckless behaviour especially since he has a past history of it! I know Valyn was flamed and those who did the flaming didnt get in trouble. Its actions like that make the Unban Valyn thread alive. If people are more responsible and aware of what their stupidity does than they will know better. you meet out justice to all guilty parties!
  21. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    There are no "trials," and I don't think there ever will be.
  22. SW3TheHolidaySpecial Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with Elfstar and Binary Sunset.One problem is if I make a thread thats says something like "I think *some character* who is going to appear to appear in E3 is nothing more than a fanboy catering-to" people will get out of control and then the "behavoir of many in the thread will force a mod to lock a thread.

    But since there is no basher sanctuary allowed I feel people who don't like spoilers are just NOT able to discuss them.

    This seems wrong to me.
  23. Dread_Pirate_Beezel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 1
    Well no trial but is their a tribunal or just one person who makes decisions!
  24. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    There's no "tribunal." Moderators make decisions on their own, sometimes with input from fellow moderators if necessary.
  25. Leonard_ShelbyThe2nd Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    What about a "Tribal Council"? ?[face_plain]


    ;)


    In all seriousness, I happen to agree with the author of the thread. Sometimes the rudeness can go too-far in that forum...which can make it unenjoyable. It seems that if you have a differing opinion, you're attacked. This has happened even to myself whilst posting over there.

    Now, I may not agree at-all with Binary's views on the PT...but his thread did make a subjective and interesting argument. That I will say (even though it seemed like it was bashing...which understandably upsets folks...even myself. But many took the pot-shots too far in that thread, IMO.). ;)


    Shelby2
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