Episode III spoilers forum: Acceptable behavior?

Those threads look like a lot of list-making and collective head-nodding. From the ten-odd pages I looked at, less than five posts were from people recognized as regular members of the Sanctuary, and they were almost all two lines at the most. Not very meaty discussions taking place there. I guess if a basher--scratch that, critic--has anything more to say than a paragraph, it's open season.

 

Royal, thanks for the links. I was wondering, in the interest of time, were there certain posts in that thread you were referring to? I want to make sure I'm clear on which things you consider appropriate disagreement.

 

OK, how is posting something along the lines of thinking E3 won't be dark a flame bait, but accusing me of "playing dumb" (either saying I'm ignorant, or am a sneaky bastard with a hidden agenda, I'm not sure which you meant, but I'm assuming the later) isn't flame baiting? Perhaps you have all this proof that I enjoy flame baiting and engage in it? Perhaps you have evidence I insight others to flamebait and am a firm supporter of flame baiting? Could you post examples of me baiting flames? Really, please do. I then invite all the moderators to review any evidence he posts, no - I encourage them to review it.

However, I then want you to post all the evidence you have that giving a discerning opinion back with evidence for the said opinion (accurate or inaccurate, regardless) over something that the group reading the opinion has no ownership over, and is not directed against them - is flame baiting.

The ball is in your court and the gauntlet at your feet. I await the moderators decision of my alledged flame baiting agenda.

You are "playing dumb" by pretending Binary's thread was in good faith posted to ignite thoughtful discussion, when in fact you know what kind of reaction that thread would get. I do not know your motivation for doing so, I cannot read your mind. I do however think you and Binary as well as all the other bashers are intelligent. You are definitely intelligent enough to figure out what would happen when posting a thread like that.

I never said you flame baited, but instead am inferring that you are playing dumb to Binary's flame baiting. I know you are too smart to honestly think Binary's thread would not be greeted with hostility. Please, tell me what kind of reaction I would get at theonering.net with a similar thread in regards to ROTK? Do you think if I posted that thread I would be greeted warmly and thanked for invoking a thoughtful discussion?




Premise1: Binary and the rest of the "Bashers" are intelligent.
Premise2: To figure out the kind of reaction a thread like that would get (flames, high probability of being locked) only requires a tiny bit of intelligence.

Conclusion: Binary and the rest of the Bashers knew what kind of reaction the thread would get (flames, high probability of being locked).

The thread was posted anyway.

 

Not every thread that results in flames is flame-baiting. In this case I would say it is entirely the fault of the posters in question for flaming Binary. There is no excuse for their actions. At all.

 

From the ten-odd pages I looked at, less than five posts were from people recognized as regular members of the Sanctuary, and they were almost all two lines at the most.

So if a thread doesn't contain a post from someone from that small group of people, it's not worthwhile? Please.

Stryphe, I was looking for threads that had the potential for a good variety of discussion, which *can* include some disagreement, but disagreement shouldn't be a requirement of a worthwhile thread, IMO. I think that's a mistake people on both sides of the fence make. Sorry if I don't have time to pour through every post in every thread looking for disagreement. If someone wants to look that hard for it, they can do it themselves.

foxbat pointed out two posters: AL and Rebel Scumb, who can have a free-flowing and understanding discussion while still being prequel critics. They don't agree with everything, but they are able to recognize and respect opinions that they might not agree with.

 

Quit playing dumb. Flame bait, anyone?

I don't often go to the 3SA forum, but the kind of response Binary_Sunset received is definitely not deserved. No one deserves that kind of response unless they deliberately troll. Can we be sure that's what Binary_Sunset was doing? Or was he actually trying to stimulate a discussion?

Here's how I saw the thread: Binary_Sunset posted a thread that questioned an aspect of Episode 3. He provided context for his topic by using details from TPM and AOTC. He left it open to discussion. He got jumped on by several dozen posters.

Premise1: Binary and the rest of the "Bashers" are intelligent.
Premise2: To figure out the kind of reaction a thread like that would get (flames, high probability of being locked) only requires a tiny bit of intelligence.

Conclusion: Binary and the rest of the Bashers knew what kind of reaction the thread would get (flames, high probability of being locked).

The thread was posted anyway.

Ever heard the expression, "Hope for the best, but expect the worst?" Maybe he hoped people would actually discuss the topic instead of posting condom remarks.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

So if a thread doesn't contain a post from someone from that small group of people, it's not worthwhile?

No, that is not what I'm saying. I am saying they can't really be compared with Binary's thread. He started a thread that expressed an unpopular opinion in that forum. Because of who he is and who he's associate with, his motives are automatically branded as ulterior and disruptive, so he's attacked.

 

You are "playing dumb" by pretending Binary's thread was in good faith posted to ignite thoughtful discussion, when in fact you know what kind of reaction that thread would get.

You are begging the question. You can't justify bashing the premise of the thread on what it ignited. How, in its conception, is it flame baiting?

 

Royalguard,

AL and Rebel Scumb, who can have a free-flowing and understanding discussion while still being prequel critics. They don't agree with everything, but they are able to recognize and respect opinions that they might not agree with.

I don't think it was Binary's fault there couldn't be a discussion. He was doing his best to take every point and discuss. It was the other members who couldn't manage this. I have seen him and many others (including myself) able to discuss with members with opposing views. I take this to mean those members were willing and polite. In this instance though, I blame those flamers who couldn't wait to get stuck into him not because Binary can't generate discussions. He has been doing so in other forums for years now.

 

He started a thread that expressed an unpopular opinion in that forum. Because of who he is and who he's associate with, his motives are automatically branded as ulterior and disruptive, so he's attacked.

That is exactly what I said a number of posts back. And his OPINION was attacked as well, which is within the TOS. Don't misinterpret his opinion getting slammed with being flaming. I also said a while back that the flaming he received wasn't justified. But perhaps I need to keep repeating myself. Then one of you guys can compliment my posts

What you said speaks to the makeup of the posters in a particular forum. Binary's stance is more widely accepted in TPM than 3SA, that's just how it is. No one is forcing anyone to post in 3SA against their will. If you don't like the general attitude of a particular forum, don't post there, don't visit there. I know lots of people who don't go to the other movie forums for that exact reason.

 

You can't talk about spoilers outside of 3SA. I didn't think it needed to be repeated (again).

 

Royalguard96, how in the world can you be annoyed at me thanking hawk for saying nice things about me?

 

So, in other words, no.

No, in other words, I'm not going to answer your question.

 

I am astounded at the mind reading going on here, with a number of fellow SW fans telling others what my intentions were in my thread.

I would much rather have posted my comments in the Sanctuary, but no spoilers are allowed there. Believe me, I'd much rather talk with mature SW fans than be subjected to condom remarks and similar things.

 

Hahahahahahaha

Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

 

Much of what you take out depends on what you bring in.

Truer words never spoken YJ...

 

No, in other words, I'm not going to answer your question.

Then you might as well lock this thread since the purpose of this thread was to get to the bottom of why members were allowed to get away with what they did. Since we can never know (*rolls eyes*), this thread serves no purpose anymore.

 

I agree, Hawk. I think we would be better served by a thread about how the Ep. 3 spoiler forums need to be changed in general. I hereby request this thread be locked.

 

Good posts royalguard96, yodajeff, dehrian, and DarthBreezy.

 

I don't get what the big deal is.

The author said potato, the others said potato. It was doomed the second it was created, and would have only gotten worse.

Not allowing these sorts of topics (bashing/gushing) in 3SA, is what makes the forum work. No single threads for one or the other. If you have a problem with something, you take it to the thread on the subject in question... No compilation threads of the negative, that creates bad karma.

 

[bRoyalguard96[/b]

>>>>You know, there have been other quality posts in this thread. This single statement perfectly illustrates a reason why people from the "basher" ideology aren't given much of a chance in places like 3SA. I've VERY rarely seen a quality post complimented by one of you guys if it didn't come from a fellow basher. It's almost like you purposefully ignore all posts except those you agree with, and it's annoying to a lot of people.

I know this is a few pages back now, but did you not notice hawk's previous post praising me?

I am FAR from a "fellow basher"...

 

Royal
I also said a while back that the flaming he received wasn't justified. But perhaps I need to keep repeating myself.

I didn't have the time to read the whole thread, so I, for one, will take the time now to acknowledge you said this. Thank you.


Stryphe, I was looking for threads that had the potential for a good variety of discussion, which *can* include some disagreement, but disagreement shouldn't be a requirement of a worthwhile thread, IMO. I think that's a mistake people on both sides of the fence make. Sorry if I don't have time to pour through every post in every thread looking for disagreement. If someone wants to look that hard for it, they can do it themselves.

That's cool. I was in a hurry when I made that last post, so I was hoping that you had a quick example. Wasn't trying to be lazy.

But what I am looking for his what you consider acceptable disagreement. I don't considers saying AVBE (Episode 3) won't be that dark unacceptable disagreement - even if it comes from a noterious basher. To further example, I'll add that I don't think it will be that dark either. My reasons come from things GL has said about the PT. So, how is stating this inappropriate (or do you even think it is)? And to those who think it's flamebating, how did I just flamebait half the 3SA forum?

They don't agree with everything, but they are able to recognize and respect opinions that they might not agree with.

And you don't think the basher regulars respectfully disagree, especially Binary? Do you think I respectfully disagree or not? Be honest, I can take it. I've noted that you've not asked me to leave the TPMDF, and I would/will had/if you ask(ed) me.

In all honesty, I think some of us get a bad rap just because we like the Sanctuary (like Binary), while others don't (like AL). Frankly, in non-3SA places, I've found AL's posts to be more (or at least as) blunt, direct and sometimes contrevsal than the average Sanctuary regular (can't compare with his 3SA posts since I haven't read them yet), but that's cool. He obeys the TOS.

(Anyway, I'll give RS and AL's post a look a little later).

 

You are "playing dumb" by pretending Binary's thread was in good faith posted to ignite thoughtful discussion, when in fact you know what kind of reaction that thread would get.

Ah, I love this, he states in the same post he can't read my mind, yet he knows I 'knew' something.

Reading on...


I never said you flame baited, but instead am inferring that you are playing dumb to Binary's flame baiting. I know you are too smart to honestly think Binary's thread would not be greeted with hostility.

LOL! This is great! A veiled insult hidden with a compliment! What better way to deflect unwanted mod attention? So, I'm still 'playing dumb' ergo I must be a liar (which most people would find insulting), but he compliments me by saying I'm a smart guy, and that makes it not a flame, I suppose. Well, thanks for voting in favor of my intellegence.

I'll give you this much - frankly and personally, I'm so freaking cynical about that forum's attitude towards bashers that I think any thread started by a known PT basher would be flamed out of existance, even one that said "Episode 3 could be the best!" heck, any basher saying that would probably be accused of being sarcastic and of making fun of PT fans. Or a thread with such obvious nuetral value like "Mace Windu's lightsaber in E3, I think it'll be green!" would be probably be greeted with posts like "Everyone knows it's purple! You bashers will never be happy with the way GL's making the PT, so what do you care?"

But that's my cynical attitude, maybe it's not a fair assessment, that's why I'm not arguing off of that POV. The question isn't do I think 3SA has the emotional maturity to handle a known basher posting, but does a known basher have the right to state a criticism in 3SA? Did Binary know he'd be flamed out of existance and his thread locked in a day (or less)? I honestly don't know what he thought. You said can't read my mind, guess what, I can't read Binary's! But here's what I know about Binary from first hand experience.
1) Binary says things people disagree with.
2) Binary says things bashers disagree with.
3) Binary backs his opinions.
4) Binary presents his opinions in a thoughtful manner and is willing to discuss the opinion with anyone in a pleasant manner regardless if they agree or not.
5) Binary never insults or ridicules those he has a discussion with.
In order for Binary to be flame baiting, he'd (a) need to be consciously insighting flames (flame baiting is a conscious action not an unconscious one) and (b) #3-5 on the above list would have to be false.

Even if he was conscious of the possiblity his opinion would be flamed (heckm anyone's opinion could be flamed), he would still only be flame baiting if his intention was to incite flaming and bickering not trying to incite an intelligent discussion.

So, as this relates to your accusation against me personally, since we've established telepathy is not occuring here and I had no idea what Binary thought would happen with his thread - in order for me to be playing dumb (as in, I'm a liar) you would need to prove that I don't believe #3-5 to be true, and/or if I'm playing dumb (as in being ignorant) #3-5 would have to be false.

Again, I say show your proof, present it here, get the moderators to review it. If Binary's a troll and I'm a troll enabler, expose us here and now and get us off the boards. That's my inventation. Otherwise, don't make accusations against us you can't prove.


Please, tell me what kind of reaction I would get at theonering.net with a similar thread in regards to ROTK? Do you think if I posted that thread I would be greeted warmly and thanked for invoking a thoughtful discussion?

1) How would I know? I don't go to theonering.net.
2) Who said warm greetings and gratitude are the necessary and/or appropriate response to a critical thread? I'm saying if someone wants to air a concern or disagreements, as long as it's done in a thoughtful manner, it should be allowed. The person making the concern or argu

 

The overall principles of the TOS are applied to all forums. But I think one thing folks are having trouble with is understanding that there are different rules within the individual forums of what is and is not acceptable.

All of the mods in the 3SA have posted many, many, many times that we don't allow bashing, gushing, sanctuaries, fan clubs, defense forces and any other sort of extreme behavior. When you post in a forum outside your normal forum, it's your responsibility to take the time and learn the ins and outs before posting or be prepared for some sort of possible moderator input.

This has been our policy all through the 2SA phase and all throughout the 3SA. We haven't changed it one bit and personally I feel the forum as a whole is better off for its exclusion.

 

Ah, I love this, he states in the same post he can't read my mind, yet he knows I 'knew' something.

I can't read your mind. Based on your previous posts, I was guessing that you are intelligent enough to know ahead of time what kind of reaction that thread would get if Binary posted it. I wasn't "reading" your mind.

LOL! This is great! A veiled insult hidden with a compliment! What better way to deflect unwanted mod attention? So, I'm still 'playing dumb' ergo I must be a liar (which most people would find insulting), but he compliments me by saying I'm a smart guy, and that makes it not a flame, I suppose. Well, thanks for voting in favor of my intellegence.

It's not an insult to say you are "playing dumb." It's not an insult in the least. It would only be an insult if I said you actually were dumb, which of course I believe you are not. You are a liar. Everyone is a liar. I am a liar. We all lie. I am not suggesting however, in the least bit that you lie more often than the average individual. However, I do not think you are admitting the truth right now. If I said right now that you were a transsexual and you called me a liar, should I be offended?

I'll give you this much - frankly and personally, I'm so freaking cynical about that forum's attitude towards bashers that I think any thread started by a known PT basher would be flamed out of existance, even one that said "Episode 3 could be the best!"

Wait, that kinda proves my point. You know what kind of reactions threads from Bashers can get as you have clearly observed it in the past. So how do you think a negative thread started by a Basher would get? According to your cynicism, people would flame him out of existance. You are essentially admitting what I'm trying to prove.

Even if he was conscious of the possiblity his opinion would be flamed (heckm anyone's opinion could be flamed), he would still only be flame baiting if his intention was to incite flaming and bickering not trying to incite an intelligent discussion.

But that's the problem. He knew the reaction it would get, and if he spent more than a couple days in the forum, he would've realized it was not a very good idea. He also would've realized that it is quite possible to engage in meaningful discussion in that forum, even if you're a well known basher (a la RS and AL). But the way he went about it was wrong and his thread reeked of a vile hatred toward the PT which incited flaming. The tone of the thread indicated to me he did not want meaningful discussion.

1) How would I know? I don't go to theonering.net.

Neither do I. But we can both make a pretty good guess of how things would be. It's a fansite.

2) Who said warm greetings and gratitude are the necessary and/or appropriate response to a critical thread? I'm saying if someone wants to air a concern or disagreements, as long as it's done in a thoughtful manner, it should be allowed. The person making the concern or argument (Binary, in this case) should be prepared for rebuttal and disagreement, and they'd better be willing and/or able to back their claim - you'd be right to demand that. But that does not mean they should be flamed, or that posting a disagreement with large groups is flame baiting.

I don't condone flaming. I don't have a problem posting an opinion contrary to everyone else's beliefs. What I do have a problem with is posting a thread that you know will get you flamed ten times over and then complaining when you do get flamed (or someone else complaining for you). It's funny too that the creator of this thread (the one we are posting in) tried to create a Basher's Sanctuary in 3SA when you're trying to argue that the Bashers just want "meaningful discussion" where people can disagree freely. The Bashers Sanctuary in TPM is the opposite of that. I have seen several users driven out of that thread or warned by the "moderator."