ST Episode IX Story Discussion

Not sure what you mean by "neat". ROTJ's ending resolved the six movie storyline that Lucas created. The Force is back in balance, the Republic will be restored as will the Jedi Order. The symbiosis that is the cornerstone of Star Wars (living beings working to mutual advantage (represented by the midi-chlorians) in unison with the Force.

There was a definitive end to those storylines that started in TPM. That doesn't mean there can't be new ones or threats to the established order.

Rey doesn't train though and still overcomes over and over again. There are no stakes in that fight. So no tension or drama. Rey wins. Ren loses. Going into ROTJ we knew that Luke was going to win but would anyone see the way he did coming? No. Going into the PT we knew Anakin was going to become Darth Vader. Would anyone see the reasons over 3 movies coming until maybe after AOTC? No.

In IX the story then has to be about how can Ren possibly challenge Rey? Because that is the only story build left. It's certainly not can Rey defeat Ren? That is a non-story. We know Rey is going to win and there is no need to wonder why she can do it because she's done it already.

Agreed. Rey vs Ren and Rebels vs First Order is nothing now. Simply a go through the motions exercise that needs to be resolved in the first act or first half then get onto what the real story is about. Something that ties to Anakin vs Sidious, Jedi vs Sith, Light vs Dark and the balance of the Force.

 

I wonder if Rey's command of the Force despite a lack of formal training is a precedent for Ep. 9 to introduce a bunch of untrained but powerful Force sensitive people that will seemingly pop out of nowhere in the last act of the movie and rise up against the First Order?

ETA: I think that's more likely than seeing Rey train a bunch of people throughout the movie.

 

That would feel very unearned, though I can see that happening tbh.

 

Yeah I can't say I actually like the idea but I could see it happening. At the same time I don't think seeing Rey training a bunch of people is especially riveting cinema.

 

So either they reveal where Schmi Skywalker came from thereby link Rey as her descendant just not from Anakin or discover Luke didn't die at the end of TLJ and was merely teleported by the force ghosts revealing Snoke was a former jedi who corrupted the Kyber stones used in their lightsabers.
The Force Ghosts needing the kyber stones to be able to appear are effected by the corruption with Anakin's lightsaber escaping by virtue of Snoke never being able to touch it thus isn't effected.

They still need to reveal Rey was raised by a Jedi Survivor even a Wookie one if necessary to explain why she's so skilled so they can reveal her mind block was broken when she learned Finn came back for her.

How long before we discover anything about this movie that isn't hype?

 

The Force was balanced, but only temporarily, at the end of VI. There has to be closure at the end of IX. This time it needs to be balanced for good - otherwise who cares?

 

"It's so much bigger."

 

What the heck does the Force being balanced even mean in practical terms? Is there an official definition for it? What creates balance in the Force and how is it maintained?

 

It's open to interpretation...like any religious text.

 

Ugh...well if that's the case then I hope that the overarching plot of the ST isn't balance because then we'll be debating till the end of time if the Force was balanced by the end of Ep. 9.

 

Maybe the Force should just be left alone, and people need to stop bending it to their will, for good or ill. I mean, wasn't that essentially Luke's message in TLJ?

 

Well if there's an Ep10 then it's a fair bet that the Force is still having an off day.

 

You may joke but I am wondering what the point of all this balance talk is since presumably the Force has to always be unbalanced in order to keep telling stories in the Star Wars universe.

 

I expect from JJ that he gives us an unbalanced space chase between Starkillerbase 2 and Deathstar 3.

 

I think stories can still be set in the SW universe. Going forward the new Jedi would have the responsibility of maintaining the balance by defeating evil wherever it appears.

 

Yes, I'm not exactly seeing where we disagree here. I agree that ROTJ resolved those things, but the ST is a direct continuation of that story. So what I'm saying is IX needs some element that makes it feel like an even more broad, definitive end than ROTJ because ROTJ is no longer the end of the story.

I think ROTJ was a nice, neat ending to I-VI, but it has effectively been undone as an ending just by the mere existence of episode VII. Yes, new problems can arise, but the ST is a continuation of the story told in I-VI so its story and resolution need to tie in some way to the rest of the saga.

I agree that "Will Rey beat Kylo?" can't be the story of Episode IX because of everything you said. I think TLJ recognizes that their dynamic, and what is compelling about it, goes beyond that. Episode IX can't be about Rey simply beating Kylo because the ST has essentially already nullified that as an interesting question AND because we've already seen the good guy beat the bad guy in ROTJ. Turns out, Luke beating Vader/the Emperor didn't completely solve things so now IX needs to give us an ending between Rey and Kylo that offers something new and more interesting that can act as an effective cap for the story told across ALL 9 films. I think TLJ lays the groundwork for this kind of ending and, as I saw someone say in the other thread, gives the ST a raison d'etre. I think the ST having an effective raison d'etre will depend heavily on how it ends.

Yep, go through the motions describes it pretty well. RJ did what he could with it. If everything comes down to a Resistance vs. FO fight that ends with the Resistance winning and that's it, that'll be a pretty boring ending to the saga. Because how would that even be different than ROTJ?

 

So no X-XII?

 

IX needs to be more definitive than VI. ROTJ was never a hugely satisfactory ending IMHO as the death of the Emperor and Vader seemed shorthand for saying "and everyone lived happily ever after". Even as a kid in '83 I felt that. Hopefully IX will make the ending seem more final.

 

No X-XII.

 

I think if they go that way, a clarifying explanation of the stakes involved could be a good thing for the saga all round.

Either final, or leave a strong hook(s) for further episodes down the line.

 

What if TLJ actually set us up to have the carpet pulled out from underneath us in Episode 9? I don’t think Snoke is dead, sounds crazy but they didn’t introduce that force projection power for no reason. I also think the reason why Rey and Kylo are each other’s equal in the force will be explored more. Lando will most likely show up to give the resistance support to win the war. Poe will become the new Chancellor after the war or they will imply he will be. Finn might show some force abilities which I believe this is the best path for his story to go. Rey and Finn bringing justice to the galaxy and rebuilding the Jedi Order. I think the twist will be Snoke is not dead and he kills Kylo in front of Rey. He will attempt to kill her then Force ghost Luke, Anakin, Yoda, and Obi Wan shows up and they help Rey kill Snoke. I imagine them either becoming one with Rey and then she is able to destroy Snoke. The movie will end on Ahch To with Rey and Finn. Rey will be training Finn while Luke, Anakin, Obi Wan, and Yoda watches over them. Just my prediction.

 

Rey and Kylo, light and dark, balance

 

Poetry!

 

There is no such thing as the Force being balanced for good. The story point of I-VI is that the Force was put out of balance because of the actions of the Sith. They altered the natural order of balance into imbalance in a way that only the prophesied Chosen One could balance by destroying the Sith.

So the Force can slide to the Light or the Dark as it ever did before. No Chosen One was needed in previous Jedi vs Sith encounters because the Sith at that time weren't able to take the Force out of balance. Their actions could be countered by what was at hand.

 

Prediction! Poe will pull a Haldo and go down with the ship in Ep. 9. Not saying he’ll do the light speed maneuver just that he’ll save his people by sacrificing himself.