main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Episode IX Story Discussion

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Formidious, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. PymParticles

    PymParticles Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    I agree with both sides here. I don’t think The Last Jedi qualifies as a gritty movie, even if it is a rather thoughtful entry into the saga, and very much driven by character arcs that follow people who are tormented by past mistakes or who make critical errors throughout, but I’d also like Episode IX to be a crowd pleasing blast. We should leave the theater feeling satisfied with how the story wrapped up, and feel like our heart rate is cranked up to 11 from the excitement of what we just watched.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  2. Adept

    Adept Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Honestly I think we can do a bit of both. Imagine Rey and Finn on a rousing adventure, working behind enemy lines to set up a coup against Hux and Kylo Ren, while Rose and Poe play 'Captain Hornblower' as they tie up the First Order Fleet with constant hit and fades. Meanwhile Kylo Ren is in 'Downfall' watching his would-be empire crumble around him as the noose tightens. I think we can make that work.
     
    TadoFett likes this.
  3. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    I've envisioned Finn (and possibly Rose by his side) going to a planet where many of the residents are bitter. They come to find out that they are bitter because they lost their children to the First Order who stole them when they were infants or toddlers and left the planet with nothing. The Republic, at the time, did nothing despite their pleas. There are momentos all over the planet with faces of the children taken by the FO. (Maybe Keri Russell is one of the parents there.or even the leader). Finn and Rose are tracked by a legion of stormtroopers who follow them because of the mission they were supposed to be on (to find something that will expose a weakness in the FO). But the stormtroopers there happen to see all of the momentos, parents, etc. The stormtroopers were among those taken from that planet and realize what was done. Some of them even see their families (but sadly, Finn never does). The chain reaction begins from that moment to work on the rest of the stormtroopers.

    Yes a MUCH more meaningful mission for Finn and Rose that actually has results that change the tide of the war.
     
  4. Jim Ryalto

    Jim Ryalto Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 1998
    Finn and Rose's mission to stop the hyperspace tracking was very meaningful. It was essential character development for Finn, broadened our understanding of the state of the galaxy, and led to some pretty extreme results: most of the resistance killed.

    You may not have liked it, but that's different from what you wrote.
     
  5. Gai' Phó

    Gai' Phó Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 2, 2018
    Yeah VIII had some good character development.

    I don't want IX to be a laborious characters "going there" and "doing this thing". We've seen three Death Stars destroyed and a bunch of cool lightsaber battles.

    This time I want to see something deep and meaningful, expanding my knowledge of the past and to feel what the characters are feeling. Bring a focus to the tangible love/hatred between characters, not simply another "epic" battle scene.

    The most adequate comparison I can think of is when the heroes are about to be melted to death in Toy Story 3. There's a similar sentiment in Episode III when Obi-Wan expresses his regret to Anakin, but it's over in just a minute.

    "Wars make not one [episode] great."
     
  6. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    How did that mission develop Finn's character?
     
    11-4D likes this.
  7. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Has anybody considered that Finn might lead a stormtrooper rebellion and that Luke will appear as a Force Ghost, and Ky
    He learned that animal rights is a thing!
     
    Gai' Phó likes this.
  8. Jim Ryalto

    Jim Ryalto Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 1998
    He learned that apathy to the cause is implicit support of entrenched power, and committed himself to the rebellion, rather than selfishly wanting to escape the war with Rey. Did you like not see the movie or something?
     
  9. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    no doubt epIX will be fun and epic...that's why i wouldnt mind more thoughtful character-driven drama. There's a lot of potential for that with Rey and Ben.

    I still think that RJ doing the treatment for IX and JJ the script and directing would have been the best consensus...

    Now about the story, i have no idea where they're going but since Luke overshadowed Rey a bit in the third act of TLJ i fully expect JJs movie to re-focus firmly on her: she's the heroine. That means if Luke has a role it serves her story, not his.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    Birkendoc and Gai' Phó like this.
  10. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    [​IMG]
     
    2Cleva and Jo Lucas like this.
  11. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    Nope.
     
    11-4D likes this.
  12. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Nope? I'm pretty sure i know what i think and i what i'd like. I dont remember talking about what you think and want.
     
    Jim Ryalto and CrazyOldJedi like this.
  13. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    What I meant by nope is that it's not happening and it didn't happen. RJ may have, at one time, written a treatment but that's not the treatment they are using for IX. I don't think that many people will have wanted JJ to use a treatment that RJ wrote.
     
  14. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    I like JJ productions, even if it's hit and miss, but i'm still not convinced he's able to write a movie that goes beyond promises to enter into something more substantial. And i say this as someone who loves TFA. I'm sure epIX will be less divisive, but i'm still worry we'll end up in lower common denominator territory. IMO the closure of the Saga (if that's the case, or at least the ST) should be more than a lighthearted fun ride with a bit of drama for good measure. I want something ambitious and a good balance between entertaining and challenging. Again, just my opinion.

    I may sound harsh on JJ, i actually think he has many qualities as a director, but story-depth is not his forte.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
    leopardhk47 and Gai' Phó like this.
  15. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    I think the final battle should be a massive battle on a planet with forces both on the ground and in the air. Like the Battle of Jakku or something from The Clone Wars.
     
    godisawesome and Jo Lucas like this.
  16. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    No problem with you what you wanting that to happen, but i'd quite hope for the opposite, something more intimate and minimalist (although i'd actually like this masseive battle you're describing happening at the beginning or in the middle of the movie). This shows how it's gonna be VERY VERY difficult to please everyone. We all hope for different tones, differnet stories, different things. If i was a SW saga director i would prepare myself to become one of the most hated person on earth quickly. Would be the same for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
    Gai' Phó likes this.
  17. CrazyOldJedi

    CrazyOldJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2000
    There would be only one person I think could pull off a 'please everyone' SW movie. Unfortunately he's busy making a few movies about overgrown Smurfs.
     
  18. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    If Finn and Rose go on another mission no one will watch the movie.
     
  19. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    He's just have to decide which Disney classic to rip off that would satisfy people lol.
     
  20. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Cameron is not a safe choice these days IMO. Avatar wasn't really praised for its story. And personally the last movie he did that i enjoyed was terminator 2, some 2 years ago. Sadly a lot of those great directors, like Spielberg, are past their primes and rarely delivers...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  21. Gai' Phó

    Gai' Phó Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 2, 2018
    He’s had some mild disappointments, but also been more productive at this stage of his career than you give him credit for.

    If JJ is for any reason unable to rise to the task of completing Lucas’ trilogy of trilogies, Spielberg would be the logical go-to. He’s been catalyzing the saga since the beginning and has no problem working from someone else’s story.
     
  22. Revan's Revenge

    Revan's Revenge Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    This is my principal concern about Episode IX.

    JJ is back in the driver's seat, and we saw that his first go at it in Episode VII was basically a giant nostalgia-fest that didn't appreciably expand the Star Wars mythos.

    Disney is likely sensitive to the divisiveness and backlash against Episode VIII and may insist on a "safe" story that on the surface leaves fans satisfied, but again doesn't add anything and doesn't make the case for why a Sequel Trilogy was needed.
     
    Jo Lucas likes this.
  23. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    I agree that JJ is not one for a whole lot of depth. That I will agree with. He's good at introducing characters but we haven't seen him take on closure. That said, I am not so sure if the third film in this saga is one that needs a whole ton of depth, just some nice closure. So perhaps he can hit one of those notes (closure) if it means missing the other (depth) .Too much depth and you'd need another movie to round it out.

    The question is can you have one without the other?
     
  24. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    We'll see how he handles this but epIX could have both depth and a sense of closure, "depth" doesnt mean he has to expand the story. I know you disagree in this but to me TFA hinted nicely at the ST central themes (weight of legacy/history, confused new generation, meta-commentary on our need for myths, stories and symbols) while TLJ fully develloped them and took it all further. I'd be disappointed if epIX turns out to be 2h30 of frenzy spectacle and nothing more...

    But as you said JJ never had to close a story so he might actually surprise us?

    @Revan's Revenge on the nostalgia thing, fingers crossed, but JJ seems fully aware of these critics, I'd be surprised if he makes the same mistake again. And he's not the only writer although i suppose he's the one who'll decide about the story in the end. I just hope he'll be less derivative than usual, less safe....and with the current situation im a bit worry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  25. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Interesting premise on heroes and villains,. Unfortunately, ST fails to connect Rey to her actual upbringing. A character with that upbringing but still a heart of gold should have been more akin to Han Solo. Prone to cheat, steal and lie to survive a harsh dog-eat-dog world. Her life on Jakku was mundane and boring, instead of a hellhole. The perfect breeding ground for new heroes. Plutt was mean but didn't anything more wicked than what Watto was doing. If anything, Plutt seems to be more "benevolent" since apparently he is willingly to pay for BB-8 rather than just take it from Rey without question. Same can be said for Finn. His personality and actions do not really reflect his actual upbringings and the actual consequences of him being brainwashed by the First Order at birth.

    If character personalities do not reflect their upbringings, it becomes difficult to believe any of them to be real people. And if we can't emphasize, we become unsympathetic. I still do not understand why Kylo Ren went bad despite having a loving family, so I am left to assume an unsympathetic reason for his descent to the dark side. Meanwhile, I am scratching my head as to why Finn's Stormtrooper backstory is important since he is treated like a bystander that happened to be caught in a war rather than a former enemy soldier dealing with PTSD. As for Rey, I never felt anything abnormal about her situation because she was treated like a farmer on Tatooine. Thus, I did not make the connection of her backstory being a villain's backstory.

    As stated before, Han Solo is a better example of the protagonist who is still a hero despite having a villain backstory. As for Kylo Ren, his backstory is nothing spectacular. It has already been played in Anakin Skywalker, Jacen Solo, Arthas from Warcraft, etc. Funny thing is, the idea of Rey still being a good person despite horrible upbringings is ripe for a deconstruction unto itself (as deconstruction uses reality check)... except it's already played out with Anakin Skywalker.